Hello Frankster I have a problem child for you:



Or should I say problem children? Now affecting 4 of 4 plants, all same strain and same media, though one plant is def. worst.

P deficiency? I recently started feeding veg nutes though they were in week 5 since sprout. They are in new FFOF with vermiculite. Please see the complete history here: https://www.thcfarmer.com/threads/lsd-from-ilgm-indoor-soil.135155/#post-2746032

Today I am going to transplant all into 3 gal pots; fill with half and half ocean forest and happy frog, plus I added worm castings and a little guano powder. I will water with plain water. Thanks for your input!

Petrochemical said:

I gotta see that episode frank..


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My kind of gal.

zzzybil said:

i thought that tricanolol was a seed sprout tea thing - though never quite understood the barley, mung bean , or corn seed sprout thing ???????

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This is what's I've found on the subject; and think is generally true. We don't have a whole lot of study of it's mechanism of action. TBH; I think it works by enhancing multiple mechanisms/pathways.

1-Triacontanol (n-triacontanol) is a fatty alcohol of the general formula C30H62O, also known as melissyl alcohol or myricyl alcohol. It is found in plant (alfalfa) cuticle waxes and in beeswax. Triacontanol is a growth stimulant for many plants, most notably cannabis, in which it rapidly increases the number of basal breaks; it's a natural plant growth regulator. It's been widely used to enhance the yield of various crops around the world, mainly in Asia.

Triacontanol increases the growth of plants by enhancing the rates of photosynthesis, protein biosynthesis, the transport of nutrients in a plant and enzyme activity, reducing complex carbohydrates among many other purposes. The fatty alcohol appears to increase the physiological efficiency of plant cells and boost the potential of the cells responsible for the growth and maturity of a plant.

Triacontanol improves the rate of cell division in a plant that produces larger roots and shoots. It has been shown that if triacontanol is applied during the maximized growth period of a plant in a appropriate amount, it enhances the enzymatic activity in the roots and hormone functionality increasing the overall performance of the plant.[9] Triacontanol basically operates by enhancing the basic functionality of the plant like increasing the rate of photosynthesis and producing more sugar or glucose. When the photosynthesis is operating finely in a plant, the plant make more sugars and absorb more sunlight. The plant then send more sugars to the rhizosphere via the root system where the growth, respiration and nutrient exchange take place in the vicinity of the soil. Availability of more sugars lead to more respiration and nutrient exchange between the plants and the microorganisms in the soil. when the microbes receive more sugars from the plant, it increases the microbial activity in the root zone and they perform more efficiently in mining the nutrients like in the case of nitrogen fixation. These microorganisms particularly trace the nutrients essential for the soil. These nutrients are further used by the plants to build more complex nutrients and compounds essential for its rapid growth and defence from certain other microbes. These complex compounds maximize the yield of the crop.

Gurtgurt said:

Hello Frankster I have a problem child for you:
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Or should I say problem children? Now affecting 4 of 4 plants, all same strain and same media, though one plant is def. worst.

P deficiency? I recently started feeding veg nutes though they were in week 5 since sprout. They are in new FFOF with vermiculite. Please see the complete history here: https://www.thcfarmer.com/threads/lsd-from-ilgm-indoor-soil.135155/#post-2746032

Today I am going to transplant all into 3 gal pots; fill with half and half ocean forest and happy frog, plus I added worm castings and a little guano powder. I will water with plain water. Thanks for your input!

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That's a tough call. My guess here is pH and possibly some cold related issue. Curling like that is almost always pH related; especially since its located in the lower older portions; and the upper is fine.

The best thing for something like that is to reset it; I use a Saponin Powder extract; but any type of wetting agent should help. Flush it out well, and reset the soil. Keep in mind replanting might help; but it's not going to fix that muck it's sitting in; you need to flush that stuff out really well before transplant; so your not just transferring your problems into another bigger container.

It's either an over abundance or imbalance in the fertilizer regime; or somehow the pH got out of whack. At least; that's what it looks like from my vantagepoint. It's always difficult to point out any one single for stuff like this. The other thing I would do is watch your temps; RH, increase your airflow to the base.... All that should help too.

Frankster said:

That's a tough call. My guess here is pH and possibly some cold related issue. Curling like that is almost always pH related; especially since its located in the lower older portions; and the upper is fine.

The best thing for something like that is to reset it; I use a Saponin Powder extract; but any type of wetting agent should help. Flush it out well, and reset the soil. Keep in mind replanting might help; but it's not going to fix that muck it's sitting in; you need to flush that stuff out really well before transplant; so your not just transferring your problems into another bigger container.

It's either an over abundance or imbalance in the fertilizer regime; or somehow the pH got out of whack. At least; that's what it looks like from my vantagepoint. It's always difficult to point out any one single for stuff like this. The other thing I would do is watch your temps; RH, increase your airflow to the base.... All that should help too.

Pardon Our Interruption...

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Roots.

ComfortablyNumb said:

Roots.

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Yea; something's obviously gone wrong down there; but exactly what is the mystery. How the substrate has been transformed over time.
Would need to have a history of what's been done; how much; and how... Obviously it showed itself in one of the plants earlier; and wasn't addressed. So many variables.

This is why I do routine flushes on an ongoing basis. "naturally foamy" mixtures are also very helpful. 1-Triacontanol for instance does this well. But the pH of the acids used are what's most critical. Buffering solutions; ect.

When I see dark black colors coming from the interveinal spots like that; and the curling; I tend to think excessive phosphate are the primary issue; and that's a nutrient that builds up and difficult to remove. But again; excessive phosphates also create pH issues. So there's multiple factors at play....

Certainly the roots are not getting what they want/need.

I think he shoud dig part of the roots out and see how rotted they are, clean them off and replant in something less ... air tight, depending on how bad they are. He could do an epsom flush but that's extreme.

Hey @Gurtgurt, what the temp of your pot?

ComfortablyNumb said:

I think he shoud dig part of the roots out and see how rotted they are, clean them off and replant in something less ... air tight, depending on how bad they are. He could do an epsom flush but that's extreme.

Hey @Gurtgurt, what the temp of your pot?

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I don't have a thermometer to check soil temp. Pots are off the ground, and I'm sure meet ambient temps.

I did have an oil heater inside the tent for a few weeks, maybe the dirt got too hot? But I had it rigged to shut completely off at night, and house temp is cold, so maybe too big of temp swings?

Someone mentioned not enough air around the soil -- this is likely. All I had access to was a standing fan, so it blew over the canopy (I thought it would be good enough to circulate).

Since yesterday I did transplant to bigger fabric pots. The roots were all white, nothing jumped out at me as being bad. I did expect there to be a lot more roots visible due to their age (sorry no photos).

I've also laid the fan sideways on the ground, so more air flow should get around the base. Heater is now outside the tent and cranked up--haven't put it on a timer yet.

I have not been pH'ing the feed water as they are in (new) soil.

Thank you for the responses, I haven't got much feedback elsewhere.

Gurtgurt said:

I don't have a thermometer to check soil temp. Pots are off the ground, and I'm sure meet ambient temps.

I did have an oil heater inside the tent for a few weeks, maybe the dirt got too hot? But I had it rigged to shut completely off at night, and house temp is cold, so maybe too big of temp swings?

Someone mentioned not enough air around the soil -- this is likely. All I had access to was a standing fan, so it blew over the canopy (I thought it would be good enough to circulate).

Since yesterday I did transplant to bigger fabric pots. The roots were all white, nothing jumped out at me as being bad. I did expect there to be a lot more roots visible due to their age (sorry no photos).

I've also laid the fan sideways on the ground, so more air flow should get around the base. Heater is now outside the tent and cranked up--haven't put it on a timer yet.

I have not been pH'ing the feed water as they are in (new) soil.

Thank you for the responses, I haven't got much feedback elsewhere.

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Frankie's good about helping folks.

What's in your soil?

I have a grow journal here: Link

Germinated in straight FFOF (problem arose in 1 plant)
Intermediate pots were 4:1 OF and vermiculite, with small amount of gypsum. (Problem developed to other plants eventually)
Current and final pots consist of my own special blend hehe: half & half OF and happy frog, maybe 15% vermiculite, a little guano, a little kelp meal, a small amount gypsum. It didn't bake at all before transplanting. After transplant I watered with 5 mL/gal humic liquid.

Hey at that point I was under the assumption it was P deficiency. I threw the whole kitchen sink at it. My last grow of the same strain used plain FFOF and was wimpy all-around and had crusty leaves (maybe the same thing) in flower. These will either fail or be turbo charged :) But thank you all for the information.

Hi Frankster, why is lefty not happy ?

Gurtgurt said:

I have a grow journal here: Link

Germinated in straight FFOF (problem arose in 1 plant)
Intermediate pots were 4:1 OF and vermiculite, with small amount of gypsum. (Problem developed to other plants eventually)
Current and final pots consist of my own special blend hehe: half & half OF and happy frog, maybe 15% vermiculite, a little guano, a little kelp meal, a small amount gypsum. It didn't bake at all before transplanting. After transplant I watered with 5 mL/gal humic liquid.

Hey at that point I was under the assumption it was P deficiency. I threw the whole kitchen sink at it. My last grow of the same strain used plain FFOF and was wimpy all-around and had crusty leaves (maybe the same thing) in flower. These will either fail or be turbo charged :) But thank you all for the information.

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I thought I had seen your nick before.

What is in the new soil? Same stuff?

ComfortablyNumb said:

Frankie's good about helping folks.

What's in your soil?

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When I'm not the twilight zone.

Neoliet said:

Hi Frankster, why is lefty not happy ? View attachment 1209617

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That's looking like potassium issues; either too h8igh or not enough; I also spot some Magnesium deficiency on both of those plants.

Would give Magnesium Sulfate (Epsom salts) to both 1/4 tsp per quart foliar; or 1/2 tsp per gallon added to fluids. (or both)
I apologize for missing this post earlier; always feel free to PM me; if I don't answer promptly.

Frankster said:

That's looking like potassium issues; either too h8igh or not enough; I also spot some Magnesium deficiency on both of those plants.

Would give Magnesium Sulfate (Epsom salts) to both 1/4 tsp per quart foliar; or 1/2 tsp per gallon added to fluids. (or both)
I apologize for missing this post earlier; always feel free to PM me; if I don't answer promptly.

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that's some beautiful flower Frankster

Frankster said:

That's looking like potassium issues; either too h8igh or not enough; I also spot some Magnesium deficiency on both of those plants.

Would give Magnesium Sulfate (Epsom salts) to both 1/4 tsp per quart foliar; or 1/2 tsp per gallon added to fluids. (or both)
I apologize for missing this post earlier; always feel free to PM me; if I don't answer promptly.

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Is that for me?

Petrochemical said:

Is that for me?

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You can have it, I don't want it; a size too big for me.

Petrochemical said:

Is that for me?

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Take a few grapefruit rinds out to the barb-b-ques grill and put them amongst the briquetes; turn that to ash and top dress the plant. I can't for sure practice on Frankster's illegal & forged medical knowledge, but this is is an NPK special.

sambapati said:

Take a few grapefruit rinds out to the barb-b-ques grill and put them amongst the briquetes; turn that to ash and top dress the plant. I can't for sure practice on Frankster's illegal & forged medical knowledge, but this is is an NPK special.

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Yea; wood ash is high in Potassium and trace minerals; also a good carbon source; just don't overdo it. But certainly ash is a very readily absorbable form; and also gets dissolved pretty well. If you do it as bio-char; it's got the added benefit of buffering; and sequestering; filtering undesirable; from desirable.... Charcoal is a natural chelate. Great stuff for organic approaches.

Stress test.... This has been a stress test of the emergency vascular system... Will they rebound...