freezing fresh trim

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Rolln J

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well here is my 2 cents on the deal.. After being trained by joeshmoe and the owner of fullmeltbubble dot com(hillbillieonpcp) i gonna have to say freezing wet fresh of the vine trim directly is the way to go:) im not sure bout you guys but round here we are after and look for full melt, pure blond goo:) just aint gonna happen using dry trim from past experiences, you get the gold candy effect which does melt and bubble quite well, its just not full melt bubble...
Soon as i find where i packed my camera i will post some pics of this freshly made blond bubble:)
i used 2.2 pounds of frozen lil casey jones popcorn buds, 20gallon bags, xl bubble now machine:) i got about 110 grams in return of pure blond full melt goba goo.. I am a 90 mic bag whore big time, everybody has there own way, im just sharing what works for us:icon_cookie:

Also not getting the full melt effect is people over mixing/stiring is one of the main problems, much more contaminants happening that way when you over mix..


Gtd

word! and I thought I was the only one...

though I have to say that usually my trim does sit out over night - so it does dry out just enough so its not a big clump of frozen leaves when I go to run it - also I run the bubble within 2-3 days of it going in the freezer.

and I agree - the 90 bag is best! get whatever bag kit you want as long as it has a 90 in it!
 
greenthumbdanny

greenthumbdanny

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also I have noticed from past runs, starting with dry material will give a higher yield but the product is not as pure. But full melt blonde goba goo is where its @ experiencing full melt at its finest and full potential is second to none:passingjoint:
 
H

headband707

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REASON ONE:
After all your work in growing your prized buds, you want to keep it fresh and potent for as long as you have it. When you grew your marijuana you waited until the trichomes (resin glands) were just right before your harvest so that you would have the best potency you could from those plants.

When you freeze marijuana buds, you freeze those potent little trichomes as well (like icicles). This makes them stiff and brittle and actually makes them fall off and break off the buds. The more you handle the buds in and out of the freezer, the more you lose those active ingredients that make the pot get you high.

Yep, they freeze and actually break-off the buds and fall into whatever bag or container you have, making the weed less potent. All plastic bags have some static, even this static attracts the resin glands that you are trying to protect and keep intact. While I recommend using plastic sealable bags, I do not recommend freezing your weed or handling it more than is necessary if it is frozen.

Ideal Storage: Keep the quantity of marijuana you wish to store separate from your daily use stash. Put it in brown bags (or any dark paper), then place it in your ziploc bags and remove any air that you can. Refrigerate, or keep in a cool place where there is little activity preventing any constant movement or handling. This will keep your cannabis both fresh and potent for a very long time.


Here's some info from that other article about freezing meds I found:

The article says that bud should not be frozen, but hash can be. Bud contains water in the plant cells and the resin glands. When you freeze it, the expanding ice crystals cause these to burst. On defrosting, the contents (ie: THC) are open to the air and much more readily oxidised (and hence degraded) than when locked up in the cells and glands. So you can expect the quality of your bud to rapidly deteriorate. For the same reason, you can only freeze completely dessicated mushrooms. Apart from this, defrosted bud has an odd texture and smell. Persumably one could freeze dessicated bud, but I know that completely dry bud looses a lot of flavour and when handled, it tends to crumble into inconvieniently fine particles (but good for a vape maybe).

I have read that hash is commonly frozen, with no ill effects. I think that it is protected from the air because of it’s smaller surface area, and in the case of squidgy-types, the glands are already burst and reconstituted. Polm or pollen-press types are made of intact glands, so perhaps these shouldn’t be frozen, I don’t know
 
AquaLabTech

AquaLabTech

Hashish Connoisseur
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Making Water Hash

Here's some info from that other article about freezing meds I found:

The article says that bud should not be frozen, but hash can be. Bud contains water in the plant cells and the resin glands.


The biggest problem people have when making water hash from dried leaf is that they have let the leaf dry to much. You need to let the leaf dry and cure but not so dry that when you touch it, it will turn to powder. This will only contaminate your water hash, degrading the quality. Another problem is that people will wash every leaf, even if there is no hash on them. Leaf with no hash on it has nothing to protect it from breaking down to powder contaminating your hash. Another problem people have is that they will try to wash everything, even the broken down powder at the bottom of the bag.

When preparing your material for water hash, you only want to use the quality material, if you use non hash covered material, you are only making more work, hence the extra weight to be washed, not only more work you are degrading the quality of all your hash.

It is best to take the time and separate your hash making material into different grades. You can then take the time to wash each grade of material and then you will see the difference in the finished quality.


Aqua Lab Tech
 
Hrpuffnstuff

Hrpuffnstuff

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if its too dry..... i dry sift it , then do bubble bags with the keif from dry sift
 
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headband707

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Sponsor Preserving Marijuana Potency What's Related >>

High Times article from 1993 that discusses various biological contaminants.


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Originally appeared in the May, 1993 High Times as "How to preserve pot potency: by stopping bugs and fungi before they damage your weed," by The Bush Doctor

Growers taking time to harvest a healthy cornucpoia of cannabis must also carefully watch over their cut crops. In addition to two-legged thieves, myriad bacteria, molds and insects have been known to rip-off your stash while curing, drying, or in the fridge. Avoiding these ubiquitous threats is nearly impossible, but there is a way to lessen their impact. The key is being able to manipulate storage conditions.

A variety of bacteria grow on damp marijuana. Many are deadly. Researchers have found Klebsiella pneumoniae, Enterobacter cloacae and Streptococcus (group D) growing in government-supplied reefer. Salmonella muenchen was found in marijuana growing across the Midwest. (Let someone else roll the joints. I don't lick rolling papers anymore!) Under anaerobic conditions (i.e., damp marijuana stored in airtight containers), Clostridium species will rot pot; these are the famous boutlism bacteria.

In addition, a number of bacteria-like Actinomycetes have been identified in confiscated ganja, including Thermoactinomyces candidus, T. vulgaris, and Micropolyspora faeni. These bugs cause allergic reactions (sometimes severe), as well as "Farmer's lung" disease.

Insects in pot are less intense. Growroom critters, such as aphids and spider mites, rarely damage marijuana after harvest. Smith & Olson (a list of references appears at the end of this article) identified five beetle species from confiscated Mexican weed in San Francisco. They completed this study at the request of the DEA agents, whose offices were overrun by the pests. The predominant species, Tribolium confusum (confused flour beetle), attacks only seeds, not marijuana proper. Two other beetles cited in the study, Adistermia watsoni and Microgramme arga, are fungus feeders (the marijuana was moldy). Thankfully, the researchers found no cannabis equivalent to Lasioderma serricone, the tobacco cigarette beetle. Otherwise some whacked government lab would be growing the bugs en masse to spread across the continent.

Fungi destroy more bud than bacteria and insects combined. Bacteria in marijuana may be more dangerous to humans, but they are rare. Molds are common, and can be nasty: Ramirez reports four policeman developing pulmonary histoplasmosis after pulling up a 5,000-square-meter plot of marijuana in Puerto Rico. Some fungi won't rot pot, but they will put you in the hospital.

Many fungi causing disease in plants die off after their host is harvested. Exceptions include Botrytis cinerea (the cause of gray mold) and Alternaria alternata (brown blight). After harvest, your competition becomes Aspergillus, Penicillium, Rhizopus, and Mucor, the baddest actors on the planet. Each genus causes disease under different conditions:

Ubiquitous Aspergillus grows on anything from rocket fuel to astronauts. The genus is millions of years old; while Home sapiens may come and go, Aspergillus will remain. Westendorp first found an Aspergillus species attacking Cannabis in 1854. More recently, Margolis & Clorfene describe a mold that increases potency in marijuana. Their "black weblike fungus" sounds like an Aspergillus species. What species, I'd like to know....

Schwartz scraped Aspergillus niger from the skull of a marijuana smoker experiencing sinus headaches. I frequently encounter A. niger growing in ganja stored at room temperature. It does not increase potency. Kagen also reports A. niger growing in moldy marijuana, along with two even nastier Aspergilli: A. fumigatus and A. flavus.

Chusid et al. blame A. fumigatus for causing near-fatal pneumonitis in a 17-year-old. They note the patient buried his marijuana underground for "aging." No doubt the patient was looking for Margolis & Clorfene's fungus, but A. fumigatus found him instead. A. flavus, on the other hand, kills slowly. It oozes carcinogenic metabolites called aflatoxins. Llewellyn & O'Rear found aflatoxins contaminating Virginian marijuana.

Aspergillus species grow better in warmer climates, Penicillium in cooler climates. Refrigerator storage encourages Penicillium infestation. Kagen et al. isolated Penicillium from marijuana cigarettes. Babu et al. identified P. chrysogenum attacking marijuana. (P. chrysogenum occurs abundantly in nature, and was Alexander Fleming's source of penicillin.) I isolated P. italicum from marijuana stored with an orange peel at 0 degrees Centigrade. Adding peels to pot imparts a "pleasant bouquet" (Frank & Rosenthal). In my case, the peel imparted a nidus of infection. P italicum, the "blue citrus mold," is notorious for its ability to spread by contact (i.e., "one bad apple spoils the whole bunch").

Five Mucor species have been described on Cannabis. Members of this genus grow fast and die young. One of them, M. hiemalis, regrettably bioconcentrates (and cannot metabolize) the herbicide paraquat from tainted substrates (Domsch et al.). Mucor's first cousin, Rhizopus, occurs in soil, ripe foodstuffs, and occasionally on people (especially diabetics). Grebeniuk isolated R. stolonifer from hemp stems. In an inoculation experiment, I quickly rotted some damp marijuana with a colony of R. stolonifer found growing on bread.

Diagnosis
Rotting marijuana produces a spectrum of odors, from stale to musty to moldy. P. italicum perfumes a lavender bouquet, while A. flavus smells like a locker room. Clostridium bacteria stink like carrion.

Infested marijuana often darkens in color and becomes crumbly. Anaerobic bacteria turn marijuana into brown slime. Marijuana undergoing rapid decay may feel warm to touch. (At this stage your stash is ready for the compost heap.) Tufts of fungi are often visible in mold material. In marijuana stored in darkness, strands look white to light grey. Exposed to light, storage molds spawn millions of colored spores in velvet clumps. A slight tap sends these spores into great billowing clouds. Generally, Rhizopus and Mucor produce grey-black spores; Penicillium species are light blue-green; and Aspergillus species are dark green-black.

To check for aflatoxins, inspect your stash under a black light (in medicalese, a "Wood's Lamp"). Material contaminated with aflatoxin-producing A. flavus will fluoresce to a green hue under ultraviolet light.

To screen for insects, simply shake samples in a No. 10 steel sieve. Of course, not all bugs found in marijuana cause damage. Some are simply "innocent bystanders" caught during harvesting and die right away. Live (and chewing) insects are more suspicious. A hand lens is helpful for I.D.

Control
Avoid damaging plants before they completely dry (even while they are in the ground and growing). Wounded tissues release exudates on which fungi feed and establish a foothold. Lucas says diseased and nutrient-deficient leaves (as well as old yellow leaves) produce more exudates than healthy leaves. Expect more mold problems in poorly grown plants.

The secret to stopping bacteria and mildew is moisture control. Even grey mold dies if plants are carefully and quickly dried. Oven-cured pot rots less than air or sweat-cured crops. Sweat-cured Cannabis (remember '70's Colombian?) maintains a "tradition" of Aspergillus contamination.

The oven-drying method inevitably leads to a harsh product. So most people air-dry by suspending plants upside down with enough space for circulation. Drying rooms should be cool and dry, preferably in uninterrupted darkness. (Most storage fungi require light to sporulate and spread.)

Living cannabis plants are about 80% water. Perfectly dried marijuana contains about 10%-15% water or moisture content (MC). Material below 10% MC becomes too brittle and disintegrates. Fungi cannot grow below 15% MC. Unfortunately, many growers market their crop above 15% MC. Cannabis, like corn flakes, is sold by weight, not volume. Tobacco farmers also allow thier product to gain weight by reabsorbing moisture before sale. They term this risky business "coming into order." Recently purchased products should be redried. Freezer storage will not protect damp pot. Placing lemon or orange peels in stored marjiuana is discouraged, as they raise the MC above 15%. Dipping Penicillium-infested plants in a solution of baking powder will inhibit these acid-loving fungi but the product must be rapidly redried.

Maintaining stored marijuana at 10%-15% MC also discourages insects. Insecticides have no application in stored marijuana. Their residue pose a danger to customers. Also, water-based sprays will kill bugs but trigger a fungus infection by raising the MC. Fumigants (gas, not sprays or aerosols) contain no liquid, thus they do not trigger mold infestations. But they leave residues in air pockets of fumigated material. Big buds are full of air pockets. Poisons are very useful for disinfecting drying rooms, but only after the crop has been cleared out.

Low temperatures will "freeze" an insect infestation. However, with rewarming, many bugs continue their destruction. Another drawback to freezing above-15% MC marijuana involves the aforementioned exacerbation of Penicillium. Heating marijuana in a 66-93 degree Centigrade oven for 10 minutes will kill most pests. This also dries out the product--again, the cornerstone of control. Marijuana should not be heated longer than 10 minutes or 93 degrees Centigrade to prevent THC oxidation.

Consumer Caveats
Immunosuppressed individuals and asthmatics should never be exposed to molds, especially Aspergillus. People using medical marijuana should take extra precautions:

Ungerlerder et al. sterilized marijuana with ethylene oxide, reporting no loss of THC from fumigation. These researchers also irradiated their dope with high-dose Cobalt 60 (15,000 to 20,000 Gray Units!) with no loss of THC. This method is not recommended for novices.

Moody et al. evaluated waterpipes for smoking Aspergillus-contaminated marijuana. Unfortunately, they found only a 15% reduction in transmission of fungal spores.

In Chicago, goofy dudes spray their marijuana with formaldehyde. This kills insects and fungi, but at a price. The treated weed, known as AMP, causes anoxia and psychomotor retardation when smoked (Spector). According to Newsweek (Jan. 20, 1986), a few ill-intentioned dealers dipped marijuana in rat poison or insecticides like Black Flag or Raid. They called this product "WAC." Indeed. Have a nice day.

Literature Cited
Babu, R., A.N. Roy, Y.K. Gupta & M.N. Gupta. 1977. "Fungi associated with deteriorating seeds of Cannabis sativa L." Current Science 46(20):719-720.

Kagen, S., V.P. Kurup, P.G. Sohnle & J. N. Fink. 1983. "Marijuana somking and fungal sensitization." J. Allergy Clin. Immunol. 71:389-393.

Kurup, V.P., A. Resnick, S.L. Kagen, S.H. Cohen & J.N. Fink. 1983. "Allergenic fungi and actinomycetes in smoking materials and their health implications." Mycopathologia 62:109-112.

Llamas, R., D.R. Hart & N.S. Schneider. 1978. "Allergenic bronchopulmonary aspergillosis associated with moldy marijuana." Chest 73:871-872.

Llewellyn, G.C. & C.O. O'Rear. 1977. "Examination of fungal growth and aflatoxin production on marijuana." Mycopathologia 62:109-112.

Moody, M.M., R.C. Wharton, N. Schnaper & S.C. Schimpff. 1982. "Do water pipes prevent transmission of fungi from contaminated marijuana?" New England J. Med. 306:1492-1493.

Ramirez, J. 1990. "Acute pulmonary histoplasmosis: newly recognized hazard of marijuana hunters." American Jounal Medicine 88(Supplement 5):60N-62N.

Smith, R.L. C.A. Olson. 1982. "Confused flour beetle and other coleoptera in stored marijuana." Pan-Pacific Entomologist 58:79-80.

Spector, I. 1985. "AMP: a new form of marijuana." J. Clin. Psychiatry 46:498-499.

Taylor, D.N. et al. 1982. "Salmonellosis associated with marijuana." New England J. Med 306:1249-1253.

Ungerlerder, J.T., T. Andrysiak, D.P. Tashkin & R. P. Gale 1982. "Contamination of marijuana cigarettes with pathogenic bacteria." Cancer Treatment Reports 66(3):589-590.

Books
Domsch, K.H., W. Gams & T.H. Anderson. 1980. Compendium of Soil Fungi. Two volumes. Academic Press, New York.

Lucas, G.B. 1975. Diseases of Tobacco. 3d Ed. Biological Consulting Assoc., Raleigh, NC.

Margolis, J.S. & R. Clorfene. 1975. A child's garden of grass. Ballantine Books, NY.

Westendorp, G.D. 1854. Les Cryptogames. I.S. Van Doosselaere. Gand, Belgium.

Created 11/2/2000 19:45:47
Modified 11/2/2000 19:45:47 Leda version 1.4.3
 
altitudefarmer

altitudefarmer

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Headband, thanks for sharing that article.Very informative!
 
H

headband707

Guest
NO problem Alt I thought it was very kewl too I tried to tell them not to freeze pot they made me pull out the big gunz lol lol peace out Headband707
 
Hrpuffnstuff

Hrpuffnstuff

335
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The book of Hashish is the ultimate leaning guide of keif and hash collection, Everything we have talked about here and , what i know came from that book ,
It will teach so much about cannabis its Insane..
Robert C Clarke in my opinion is the utmost authority on cannabis information period...... youll look at that book so much it will fall a part on you lol

After reading some more , about all things Hashish....
My lack of knowledge has me putting my foot in my mouth , :doh
After reading Treat Yourself Issue #19
i may be talking outta of my ass by giving Robert Clarke and others i respected so much , Props...

my thoughts have been confirmed the Oils are key!!
And out of respect for RD JP and TY
i will definitely be burning my Bubble bags seeing they have been just collecting dust anyways..:mad0233:
 
greenthumbdanny

greenthumbdanny

Premium Member
Supporter
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Wanna send them bags my way bud:)

:passingjoint:
 
Hrpuffnstuff

Hrpuffnstuff

335
18
Wanna send them bags my way bud:)

:passingjoint:

i would be glad too But i better not , i dont want to contribute to the delinquency of ruining your goods! LOL


Read the Ice Wars article im curious of people thoughts after they read it .....

TY issue#19 is Filled with Really Great Articles
 
Blaze

Blaze

2,006
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Most of this has been covered but here is my two cents:

If you want to get the highest possible quality, then yes, freeze your trim wet. I've done a lot of side-by side runs over the years, and I can assure you with out any doubt that fresh-frozen material will almost always produce a superior product to cured, dried material. Running the cured, dried material will get you a higher yield as others have mentioned, but it will rarely ever be as flavorful, smooth, or bubble as much as something made from dried material.

Many people do not agree with freezing and claim that it degrades the hash. Though I completely agree that bud should never, ever be frozen, and that this does absolutely degrade the quality of the bud, the same cannot be said for hash materials.

When bud is dried, it is exposed to air, at least some light, some heat, and some physical contact/vibration. All of these environmental conditions degrade the chemicals found within the bud itself. Some of the more volatile chemicals vaporize at a relatively low temperature, even as low as 70-80 F.

I believe that by freezing the hash material before it can dry, you minimize it's expose to light, air, and heat, and therefore prevent any degradation from these three environmental factors. So long as you are very careful with how you handle the material, physical contact and vibration should not have any negative influence on the end product either. As a result of freezing, you capture many of the chemicals in the hash that will no longer be present once the parent material goes through a drying and curing process.

Although it is also correct that freezing causes trich heads to break off more easily, I do not see this as a negative. This is in fact exactly what I want when I make my hash. I want those heads to come loose as freely and as easily as possible in order to make a cleaner, purer product. Since I am only carefully and gently taking my bag of material out of the freezer and dumping it into a trash can, the amount of trichs lost inside the bag is very minimal.

There are a few other tricks to go along with this in order to get the highest grade of water hash possible, but the fresh-frozen material is one of the most important components. When done properly, one can produce a product that will come out almost like an oil, and it will be very, very sticky sometimes to the point that it must be frozen just to handle it. The flavor will be just as good and intense, if not more intense than the bud it was made from, and the smell will be intact as well. When smoked it will just bubble, never burn, and can at times be almost as clean and as pure as a vaporizer.

This sort of result can almost never be achieved by using a dried product. The hash from dried material can come out quite good no doubt, but it will come out better if you freeze your materials wet first.
 
R

Rolln J

Guest
hey blaze - welcome to the farm - great posts so far and I am in 100% agreement with you - you get more hash from dried leaf because you get more contaminant, simple and hash cures fine after you make it...
 
AquaLabTech

AquaLabTech

Hashish Connoisseur
221
28
After reading some more , about all things Hashish....
My lack of knowledge has me putting my foot in my mouth , :doh
After reading Treat Yourself Issue #19
i may be talking outta of my ass by giving Robert Clarke and others i respected so much , Props...

my thoughts have been confirmed the Oils are key!!
And out of respect for RD JP and TY
i will definitely be burning my Bubble bags seeing they have been just collecting dust anyways..:mad0233:


Rob Clarke is working on a new updated release of the book HASHISH! This book should be released around the middle of April where he will be signing the new book at the THC Expo in LA.

In the updated version, he mentions to never use wet trim and to never press hash while it is wet.

Regards,
ALT
 
Blaze

Blaze

2,006
263
Aqua Lab Tech - Have you actually made hash with wet trim or bud? I am not trying to be a jerk or piss you off or anything, but I am curious what you are basing your conclusions of off. If you know some trick to making dried material come out as good or better than wet, please, by all means, share the info.

I agree that you get substantially less end product using it wet, but the fresh-frozen material produces a product that is so far above and beyond what I have seen achieved with dried material that it isn't even on the same scale.
 
dannyk892009

dannyk892009

279
63
Never made bubble hash before but I'm goin with Blaze on this one because it just seems more logical to go for quality hash not yeild of hash
 
R

Rolln J

Guest
and you really do get the best quality this way by far - I been making water hash since the early 90's - long before there were bubblebags and this by far makes the tastiest, most dank smelling water hash that is like the consistency of caramel - little bit of dry ice in the water is a big plus as well!
 

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