tweedy said:

Definitely agree on that being an easy and most likely accurate assumption. I wouldn't be surprised if it was to protect themselves against a cannabis related suit though because apparently we're the only farmers actively concerned with Paclo and consumables.

Big company like GH getting sued by the equivelant of a cannabis collective in the med industry = Way too much publicity for a company that tends to steer clear of anything med related.

No idea if this is true or not, but just something that popped into my head.

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LOL at cannabis related suit... It will be a long time before that happens. No offense.

ill eagle said:

Just finished using this in my Veg+Bloom thread

Can someone prove to me that 1ml in 5 gallons of nute feed at week 2 applied once in my plants life is cancerous? Quality wise the Veg+Bloom buds were better quality but, Bushload, like it or not, produces results unlike a lot of bullshit on the market. I would say it is worth a shot especially for lanky ass OGs and what have you's. The Veg+Bloom solo buds where a bit fluffier but more sugar sapped but the weight of these paclo driven buds is like lead rocks and will be extra appealing in end weight.View attachment 271719View attachment 271720

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Buds look fat but theres no frost , i use to use phosphoload shit works amazing but not worth the risk .u can get the same weight with lst, topping ,super cropping and get better quality with out that shit

Capulator said:

LOL at cannabis related suit... It will be a long time before that happens. No offense.

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None taken, but I don't necessarily see what is laughable.

The potential for a large collective to be sued for poisoining their patients and choosing to pass the buck to the people who didn't specify that the product was absolutely under any circumstances unacceptable for consumable goods (hence the "ornamental only"). It's for GH's protection in my opinion, not all because of the product inside. It's like McDonalds and other places putting the heat warnings on things, some people just like to protect themselves from any liability issues, especially with something that can easily be over applied and throw their "safe for consumables" thing out the window.

There are easily $1,000,000+ collectives out there, why wouldn't it make sense for a legal entity to sue another legal entity for damages to their company through false advertising. It would be a state case if I'm not mistaken.

tweedy said:

None taken, but I don't necessarily see what is laughable.

The potential for a large collective to be sued for poisoining their patients and choosing to pass the buck to the people who didn't specify that the product was absolutely under any circumstances unacceptable for consumable goods (hence the "ornamental only"). It's for GH's protection in my opinion, not all because of the product inside. It's like McDonalds and other places putting the heat warnings on things, some people just like to protect themselves from any liability issues, especially with something that can easily be over applied and throw their "safe for consumables" thing out the window.

There are easily $1,000,000+ collectives out there, why wouldn't it make sense for a legal entity to sue another legal entity for damages to their company through false advertising. It would be a state case if I'm not mistaken.

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I agree with you. I just don't see collectives suing anyone other than the state or county they are trying to operate in that's all.

Capulator said:

I agree with you. I just don't see collectives suing anyone other than the state or county they are trying to operate in that's all.

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Agreed, just see potential when and if suits become standard fare in the industry. Who knows, speculation is a bitch. We've got enough to speculation to last us till 2014 up here with 502 going on, ha.

I was told that the paclo used in these products are such miniscule amounts that they should cause no harm. The research being circulated is a study with paclo at very high amounts not found in paclo additives. Also paclo is used on the very products purchased at the supermarket. ??? The guy who told me this is one of the most informed people I have ever met on the subject of growing and bases his information from scholarly papers, and scientific research.
what are your thoughts on what I was told??? its some food for thought

drknockbootz said:

I was told that the paclo used in these products are such miniscule amounts that they should cause no harm. The research being circulated is a study with paclo at very high amounts not found in paclo additives. Also paclo is used on the very products purchased at the supermarket. ??? The guy who told me this is one of the most informed people I have ever met on the subject of growing and bases his information from scholarly papers, and scientific research.
what are your thoughts on what I was told??? its some food for thought

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More like toxins for thought.......instead of "food for thought".....but anyhow my FIRST thought was that "your guy" is not as informed as you might think, in fact he seems to be the opposite of what I would consider to be "informed" by his comments about supermarkets of today.

My second thought was that just because lots of people do something (supermarkets), that does not make it right or safe.....that is exactly the kind of thinking that got us in trouble to start with...I mean look back at the science history of things......how many things were we WRONG about?? The earth being flat, the earth was the center of the universe....ect...

The bottom line is this: They do not know what the long term affects of these products are at ANY amounts or levels of concentration......they have not be around long enough for this.....

Organic farmers are now finding things like jet fuel in the crops from all the airline planes flying over fields constantly for many years.....for many years this was not a problem.....the SMALL AMOUNTS of jet fuel that was falling from the sky was not a problem several years ago.....TODAY IT IS DESTROYING OUR CROPS AND CONTAMINATING OUR FOOD SUPPLIES!!!

Guess what the "research" studies shows??? That in SMALL AMOUNTS IT IS NOT HARMFUL!!

You should read my post in this thread, post number 15 about the Gerson Miracle.....it talks about exactly the same thing....proof from science research.....yet the doctors STILL say there is NO PROOF!!

Have you thought for just one second that these people telling you it is ok to use and SAFE at lower levels might have a alternate objective???

For every research paper you can come up with saying it is safe at lower levels, you can find just as many showing a OPPOSITE proving study....

I say it comes down to COMMON SENSE, why use it if it is a risk at all?? Why not use BETTER methods?? Like using a ACT tea or something to produce the desired affects...plenty of grows showing how it DEGRADES QUALITY! Is not that enough of a reason???

And to use the supermarket as your point of reference??? That is just silly...do you realize how many people are upset because of the POISONS found in our grocery store foods?? Ever hear about IN ALL OTHER COUNTRIES EXCEPT FOR THE USA AND CANADA there is a law stating you MUST identify foods that have been genetically modified......nobody in Europe will buy the food marked this way unless they are starving....we are to stupid over in the USA to worry about such things I guess.....

Most that really understand this problem realize that "we the people" are being used as lab rats for there food experiments.....you see the earth can only support about 2.5 billion people, that is all there are resources for...PERIOD. It is SIMPLE MATH! Yet currently the population is at 8 billion and rising faster than EVER before.....there is not enough food....that is why GMO's were invented in the first place, grow more food FASTER.....and even worse they modify the gene structure to be resistant to poisons and pest......

They are fucking with something that took evolution millions of years to accomplish.

Most people also understand VERY little about plant nutrition in general.....they do not see products like Pure Flowers for what they REALLY are, a pesticide used to treat plants with....instead they see it as a "Bloom Booster"....how messed up is that??

Lots of people do not know what a "systemic" type product even is, or what it does, or how it works....SM 90 is a the proof I goto for this point.....how many people use SM-90 consistently through out the growing cycles......using a systemic type product without even knowing what it is or that it is even a systemic type product is just plain stupid......the products should be CLEARLY MARKED for starters.....

They are finding mutation in plants NEVER seen before, we are playing with something we know VERY LITTLE about or understand......the science community for example currently thinks that most of genetic code is "junk code"......we know how untrue that is now.....the science world even thought the earth was flat at one point......

I would not put much faith or hope is ANY research paper telling you something you KNOW is fundamentally not SAFE......bottom line.

Just about all growers who have EVER used these products has stated that they thought the quality was degraded....even ill eagle has said this.....and then in the same breath he ask what the danger is if any, and for someone to PROVE that it is dangerous and not a wise product to use on a food type crop?? HUH???

If you grow ornamental cannabis this is the product for you. I grow medicine and recreational use flowers. That being said I would never bother to use this stuff. No temptation either. I grow for a commercial operation in Boulder CO. Even if it could increase yield by 10% it would still NEVER be applied. At best there is no long term studies on these compounds we simply do not know the effects, Why chance it?

This is poison that clearly states on the label NOT to be used on food crops, do not consume.

Peace

If you can't make a living growing cannabis without these products do yourself a favor and walk off the edge of the earth! lol
These products = greed, greedy growers that care more about profits than learning how to yield the same without poison(a proficient grower) use shortcuts. Learn to dial your environment into your genetics and let the plant express itself! Waayne is a great example, he doesn't use bloom boosters of synthetic sorts and doesn't even use a bloom food and I bet a bunch of you are mindblown by that! And his nugs, huge and high grade!!!

Love your plants don't throw bottled garbage at them for $$

@HYdrorocks, you keep saying how TOXIC this stuff is, but if you swallow 30 tylenol pills, it will be alot MORE toxic then any PGR residue left behind in buds.

I've never used PGR's because I don't want to, but I'm sure you bought buds from someone in your lifetime that was grown with PGR's, and you seem fine to me.

The TOXIC compounds in PGR's are deadly because they give it to rats at a much higher rate then what is in buds. They actually overload the rats to the point higher then it takes for tylenol to kill humans.

I am in no way condoning the use of PGR's, but some people exaggerate to the point where there is NO PROOF of how deadly minuscule amounts are. If your so concerned about toxins, your probably consuming more from fruits and vegetables from Wal-Mart then PGR grown bud will give you.

TFL1 said:

I think that statement about ornamental is there to please the states. As long as that statement is on there and the ingredient paclobutrazol is not hidden. It can be sold

I think until we really find out what the outcome of all these PGR's really do, its kind of unfair for someone to use them for the sake of their own intentions.

I know that I couldn't drop some meds off at a spense and walk away not knowing what the effects might have later on in someone else's life.

Just me though.......

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I agree, medicine should have EVERY ingredient disclosed and if side effects are unknown, then it should not be used for medicine.

The thing is, studies on paclo show it to damage the liver in large doses. Lots of things damage the liver in large doses. When using 1-2 ml for the entire grow cycle and that 1-2 ml has less then 1% paclo, then that minuscule amount spreads through the entire plant. Your left with such a small amount of paclo residue there is no studies that show such a small amount will harm anybody, or anything.

I think the reason people say there are unknown factors when it comes to paclo is because it doesn't hurt anything unless given in large enough doses. IMHO that is not an unknown factor, it is known large doses can cause liver damage and death, but used in the correct amount for plants there have been no known damage or death. Thats just my opinion based on what I read. I don't have any experience using it.

there is a rather large subsect of commercial growers, especially in cali, that still go to hydro stores looking for, and often finding, phosphoload... this is an attempt by gh to steal away some of that business... they don't care about the grower or what they are growing; they care about stuffing more money into their pockets... for that reason i boycott gh and all of their products when it comes to my garden

opt1c said:

there is a rather large subsect of commercial growers, especially in cali, that still go to hydro stores looking for, and often finding, phosphoload... this is an attempt by gh to steal away some of that business... they don't care about the grower or what they are growing; they care about stuffing more money into their pockets... for that reason i boycott gh and all of their products when it comes to my garden

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I use GH MaxiGro, Kool Bloom and pH UP.

[quote="opt1c, post: 982568, member: 9705"... they don't care about the grower or what they are growing; they care about stuffing more money into their pockets...[/quote]


I don't know of ANY company that doesn't think that same way. Its the world we live in bro.

opt1c said:

... they don't care about the grower or what they are growing; they care about stuffing more money into their pockets...

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I don't know of ANY company that thinks differently, its the world we live in bro.

lex0415 said:

I don't know of ANY company that thinks differently, its the world we live in bro.

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that's too bad, sounds like you need to think about where you put your money, doesn't have to be in the corps pockets. Alvarado Street Bakery, google that shit.

TFL1 said:

I look at it two ways:
Lets look at alcohol.
If you consume 1 alcoholic beverage a day you"shouldn't" end up with internal problems.
If you like to drink out of moderation, then most likely you will end up with some internal problem/s.
I think the difference is that, you are doing it to yourself.

Lets also look at smoking
For the longest time everybody had no idea that second hand smoke was as bad for others as it is.
Now you cant smoke anywhere, anymore, because your decision to smoke effects others.

I guess what I am saying, is that if anyone uses these products for their personal smoke then I don't think anyone has a problem with that.

Using them and knowing whats in it to benefit their bank account, just doesn't make sense to me.

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You make valid points, it is immoral to use harmful products on unsuspecting consumers. Alcohol and cigarettes are both proven to harm people with long-term exposure and/or consumption. Second hand smoke does not harm people unless they are exposed to it for long periods of time (multiple years). Also, children are more vulnerable to disease from 2nd-hand smoke because there bodies are smaller and still developing. That is why you cannot smoke in most public places, because its known to be harmful, especially to children.

My point is, from what I have read, there are no known dangers of paclo when used in the recommended (very, very minuscule) dosage for plants. Hopefully, more studies will be done to show if paclo does harm animals over time from very small doses. I would really wanna read a study like that.

baba G said:

that's too bad, sounds like you need to think about where you put your money, doesn't have to be in the corps pockets. Alvarado Street Bakery, google that shit.

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I know there are some good people who own companies and care about there products and consumers. I was speaking largely on the part of the majority of big corporations, I didn't word that too good.

:confused:

GR33NL3AF said:

Its the EXACT same thing as Bushmaster. I've used Dr. Nodes but it isn't available on the market anymore...haha I still have a secret stash...

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yes it is still available. saw it online earlier bro