germing old seeds

[Motarebel]

Touchy subject here as ya ask 100 peeps and ya get 100 different answers!:eek: I'm a big fan of the paper towel and ziplock baggie method for fresh beans. Old stock always seem to crack but never throw a root down so gotta do something diff. I have some rooting powder and a rooting concentrate that's slightly different. First i'll soak seeds in solution for 24 hours then into paper towel soaked with plain water. Second control will be soaked in the same solutions plus paper towel will be soaked in the same solution. Third control will be control#1 with super thrive added and fourth control will be control#2 with super thrive added. You get the picture and i have some seaweed extract that'll be worked into the mix eventually along with what ever i come up with. I'll try and locate some willow trees and make some willow water too. Trying not to leave any method out so if you got a method that works for old seeds then lets hear it. Feel free to play along and post your results.;)

 

[Shamus]

ill be getting Ga3 soon, which is what seems to be the best method for germing old seeds, as well as a h202 wash to get any pathogens off em that could hinder germination. ive seen peeps do a soak in sugar water as well.. not 100% sure why.

my older relative gets 80% success rate using just willow water for clones outdoors under a tree in just dirt, i do believe there is either IBA or some other natural growth hormone in the new green tips of the willow. so it should do some good i would think

itll be interesting to see what others post, always intrigued by this

 

[darkmatter]

im waiting on some old seeds soak and plant one stain doesn't look good but the other that are same age are doing something. They where frozen years till 2 years ago(I don't freeze anymore) but just trying them now. I guess some do some don't,I don't get bummed about it and just keep getting it. only willow I could recognize would be the one in the movie. Might not be a bad product to develop?

 

[altitudefarmer]

Just recently learned of the 20% H2O2 trick and I have had 100% germ rate since. About to test it on some old beans. I heard about it here at the Farm, but don't remember where.

 

[Medusa]

Someone told me to soak in water and hydrogen peroxide .. never worked ..than my sister came over and drank them without knowing ..and that didn't work either...Cambodian Mekong seeds ..man i really wanted to pop those too. 17 week flower sativa.

 

[SAPP]

I will keep my eye on this one, have some old seeds I wish I could get to pop, best Sativa I ever had, Mota i hope you will share your results. Give Logic Some Dutch flowers seeds that were old and i think he used GA3 and got all of them to pop.

 

[Medusa]

Whats GA3 guys ?

 

[Shamus]

gibberellic acid, i thinnnk it may help with the water penetrating the shell.. orrrr something like that could be way wrong
but ive heard it works
ive also heard it puts you on a watch list along with STS, dunno if its true

 

[SonOfDaMourning]

Im at this point atm, im trying to get some old choco diesels to throw a decent tap! They seem to pop, well most are but firstly they have a problem shedding the shell, then the one that got that far didnt want open cotlydons to expose the core. I used h202 and a lil colloidal silver to avoid contam. I even tried to incubate with the tap between 2 moist sponges and still the cotlydons are compromised and kinda dry. I think getting too dry in storage is the factor in germing old seeds.

 

[mack 10]

heard of people using an enzyme to dissolve the outer shell leaving the embryo to grow unhindered, never caught the name though.

 

[OGkushistein]

I just recently cracked some beans that were made 3-4 years ago I hit the edges with sandpaper followed by a 24hr soak then the paper towel in a zip method on top of a heating pad

 

[SonOfDaMourning]

Im talking about some un refridgerated circa 06' beans. What do you guys think about using superthrive?

 

[E.T.]

I have very good success with a 250 ppm solution of ga3. Soaked for 24 hrs then into unbleached coffee filter in a baggie.
Any stronger and elongation of the seedling is too extreme.
I'm talking about 30+ yr old beans

 

[TheCoolestMan]

Excellent as I'm working on a method to germinate 10/20/30+ years old seeds. I've prepare my seeds, I don't have much old seeds. So I picked out 10 Lifesaver and BOG bubble that are from 2008 and some Skunk# 1 Haze freebies which I suspect to be older. I also added some fresh seeds for my controllers.

Here's is how I will do this:
Life Saver:
#1 - controler
#2 - scuffed
#2 - teeth crack
#1 - regular

Bogs bubble:
2 - controler
3 - scuffed
3 - teeth cracked
2 - regular

Skunk Haze
3 - controler
4 - scuffed
4 - teeth cracked
3 - regular

Home made
2 - teeth crack

Controllers:
The controllers will be germinated in a tupperware container with paper towel, sprayed with tap water, just like fresh seeds. The only fancy part, it's that the box will be placed vertically.

Scuffed:
The scuffed groups, will be using a scarification technique using sand paper. Then they will be placed in the bath of miracle solution for 48 to 72 hours.

Teeth Cracked:
The teeth cracked group, will be slightly cracked open using my teethes. Seeds are not tacos ! Understand that this have to be done very carefully, place the seeds on the side, between your front teeth, and press slightly with ur teeth until u hear/feel the "crack", meaning the seeds is cracked open. Then they will be placed in the bath of miracle solution for 48 to 72 hours.

Regular group
The seeds are leaved untouched. They will be placed in the bath of miracle solution for 48 to 72 hours.

Strainers:
Depending on how the seeds have germinated, after the soaking bath of miracle solution, they may be placed in strainers. For instance, all the scuffed seeds will be in the same strainers, etc.4 groups of seeds = 4 strainers.

Strainers will be wrapped under a well humidify towel, and kept sitting under the tap water, leaving the warm water running, drop by drop over the towel for 24 to 48h. See pictures for more details on this technique.

Miracle solution bath consist of a solution mix in water, with kelp, humic acid, K boost and a few other stuff. A air pump is added to the water along with a heather to keep the temps right.

I will update here with pictures very soon.

 

[TheCoolestMan]

@E.T. Could u let us know the brand of your GA3 ? There's some trials with this stuff but unfortunately there's more failure then victories from I have seen. Specifically on 30+ years old seeds. Not saying you're lying or anything, I just try to understand how this could be possible to germinate a 30+ old seeds in 24h??

Could u please give us more details such as how the seeds were kept, where are they from etc? How many have u tried germinate?
Any info will be useful.

 

[E.T.]

here's where i get my kits...
http://www.jlhudsonseeds.net/GibberellicAcid.htm

any time you germinate old seeds it's a gamble. i've had a crack at some of reefermans private stash of seeds from the dam that were at most 5-10yrs old. out of 19 seeds, only 3 germ'd. these were stored poorly, is my guess...
i keep all my seeds in refrigeration with desiccants.
my 30+yr old stock is mexican red hair, via ndn. i only had 6 seeds. most germinated, but only one made it past the cotyledon stage. i've tried this with old mex bag seed for years (20+yrs old). these seeds are what i've based my experience on. had a couple hundred seeds. took 10 at a time and ran my tests. 10 went into distilled water. 10 went into tap water. 10 went into 250ppm solution of ga3. 10 went into a bag with banana peels (for ethylene). 10 went directly into dirt.
my results were quite impressive...i can tell you that i've come down to a 250ppm solution of ga3 from experimenting with concentration levels. much higher then this will cause excessive elongation of the seedling and it will grow itself to death.
distilled water - 3/10
tap water - 4/10
ga3 - 9/10
ethylene - 8/10 (all females, will discuss this in a min.)
dirt - 5/10

banana peel method - O.K Before you germinate your seeds, place your seeds in a sealed plastic bag containing banana peels for 14 days. Wrap the banana skins in tissue to absorb any moisture they give off. Keep the bag in a warm place & air the seeds regularly, replacing the skins as they ripen. Ethylene, a naturally occuring gas given off by the ripening bananas not only increases germination, but also feminizes your seeds....
yes, it's true.

just my experience here. ga3 is the best shot at germinating old stock. tried many different ways, many different times and this is what works for me. if i want to feminize a seed and increase germination, use banana peels. 100% success rate there...
hope this helps fellas.

here's a shot of my mex red hair from a few weeks ago...

 

[E.T.]

ill be getting Ga3 soon, which is what seems to be the best method fexperiming old seeds, as well as a h202 wash to get any pathogens off em that could hinder germination. ive seen peeps do a soak in sugar water as well.. not 100% sure why.

my older relative gets 80% success rate using just willow water for clones outdoors under a tree in just dirt, i do believe there is either IBA or some other natural growth hormone in the new green tips of the willow. so it should do some good i would think

itll be interesting to see what others post, always intrigued by this

Sugar is used as a food stock for the embryo. This is thought to provide extra energy to old seeds...
I have no experience with this method

 

[symbiote420]

^ I love this germ info @E.T. good shiz .......maybe someone should sticky this thread!! I grabbed some GA3 to help germ the rest of these Asia Girl I got from KG but haven't used any yet, I'm planning to run them OD this year since they are fast finishers!

 

[TheCoolestMan]

Thanks @E.T. for providing tose useful and priceless tips. Could u please explain in details how to use GA3, do u check the temp of water, Do u mix it with tap water, Do u adjust PH, Environment conditions etc.

I had 100% with 7+ YOS but haven't tried yet on my 20+ NL#5/Hz and Beatrix Choice. I only have 8 beans from each. Your result are impressive E.T compare to what I have seen around in forums. I check many GA3 report but most of them was a disaster, and those who worked never came close to ur numbers here. Do you know if that GA3 kit link u posted is the same as the one sold by Seedmans Seeds?

 

[E.T.]

Only use distilled water with ga3. I use room temps. The kit comes with 100ppm and 500ppm bottles, I just cut the 500 in half. 250-300ppm I found to be ideal.
Once they have cracked, I put them into beer cups 1/2 full of soil. They will stretch significantly, so that's when I top off the beer cup with remaining soil. Works better then bracing...