Getting Canna + Calimagic Dialed In And Stopping Overfeeding

[Thelight413]

Whats goin on everyone,
I've been trying to make sense of a post that a guy named DownWithDirt made on here a while back called "Stop Chronic overfeeding" Heres a link to the post
--->https://www.thcfarmer.com/community...rfeeding-and-some-tips-with-canna-coco.48642/

If he is still around that would be fantastic but I'm sure folks on here can make sense of it for me.

Im currently in week 1 of flower using Canna Coco and Canna nutes.
My res mix is:
6ml/gal A+B
5ml/gal Cannazyme
2.5ml/gal Rhyzotonic
AND
Calimagic(Where my uncertainty lies)
3ml/gal (Im using calmg at 1/2 the ratio to my base nutes)
PH 6.0
PPM (.5 scale)--> 610

so...my questions are Firstly
1) Does this feed seem off to people (Too little of something, to much of something or to much/to little overall) too high ppm to low ppm for week 1 flower? USING THE .5 SCALE
2) How much Calimagic is really needed? My stems are green but some spots are streaky and im wondering if I'm locking my plants out a bit from too much of one specific nutrient, or maybe too little now? In veg, I believe I overfed a bit because my leaves are rather dark green with red veins on a few as well as some streaking on the stems..
3)For VEG, How much A+B & Calimagic is necessary ...The linked post from down with dirt recommends 4-6ml/gal AB in Veg and 7-9 ml/gal in Flower with no additives other than Calmg, I personally, choose to use rhyzo a good bit as well as a rhyzo foliar once per week in veg... I also use cannazyme later in veg/flower. Overall..can someone post a feed schedule that they use with canna+additives like rhyzo, zyme and calmag for VEG and then Flower if youre willing... I just can't seem to get this fool proof system directly dialed in, My plants are healthy and growing but I know they can be healthier with the right feed.

 

[Junk]

Question 1. It seems off. I don't know anything about those nutes, I assume you are hydro? But that ppm is extremely low. Cali-magic I use at 5ml per gallon. I also try not to mix nute lines. If you look up @Stumpy420 he has a recent post up where he started mixing nute lines & it made quite a mess.

Question 2. 5ml per gallon is perfect. What really helps is GH Armour SI. 5ml per gallon. It has to be mixed first, everything else comes after.

Question 3. I've answered the parts I can. Don't know anything about Canna. I'll send you a pm

 

[blazer]

Been using 0 cal-mag with the canna A&B They already have it

 

[blazer]

Tried the low feeding also didn't do well seemed like they liked when I'd hit around 600ppmAnd up And cut the cal-mag out and they seemed to have plenty with around 600ppm or up, just my experience!

 

[Junk]

It has a lot to do with what get's mixed with what. I've seen 900 ppm be too high, for the exact same plant (same cut) that is now at 1450 ppm (.5) & it loves it. Another plant I've gone up to 1650 & it's loving it. I've gone well over 2000 with that same plant (I assume it's 2,000, the meter just shows a row of -----) & it showed no signs of stress at all.

That is all strain related, another plant, going that high would have done a job on it. This one just happens to be a hearty eater. I'm just saying it's the sum of what you use that allows you to run a certain ppm. But overall, a 1.2 EC, is what some growers use to flush their plants in.

This is not a "less is better" game. It's a "how close can I consistently get to that line without crossing it" game. That "line" being overfeeding.

I'm not saying anyone needs to run their plants at super high ppm, but with some expert advice, (I am certainly not an expert, I mean someone helped me) it's quite possible & plants seem to respond well to it. Even my light feeder takes it fine. I actually think I might dial it down a bit because the growth is too much. Wait till the stretch is fully done, then go back up. I outgrew my first space, it's now outgrowing the second. They are like that plant in Little Shop of Horrors.

 

[Stumpy420]

Purple petioles, (the stems of the leaves) is a cause of cal mag deficiency, and also your leaves will taco up. I forgot calimag in a couple of weeks (not subsequent). 1 week I forgot it. I put it in the next week. The week after I forgot again. I developed purpling stems and leaves aren't flat at the moment, they should eventually even back out we once I return to my nutes.

Someone had told me I shouldnt use GH so I decided to switch mid grow because somebody else had told me I would be alright. It was a BIG mistake. Thanks to quick acting, and a lot of Guidance from @Junk, we saved the plant. It was shocked in less than 12 hours. Listen to @Junk if he offers you help. I am going with what he told me to do on the next run.

 

[Junk]

I use GH & like it.

Both hydro shop owners I know, who could run ANY line they wanted, they both run GH.

Many breeders here, run GH.

I think a lot of it can be what you are used to. I've only ever used Nectar for the Gods, Botanicaire, & GH. The GH I have used extensively though.

I guarantee that if I was to switch to Jacks like @Capulator does, I would mess things up for a while till I got the hang of it.

The easiest way to start is to find someone who already has a proven recipe & just copy it. They are posted on here if you search. If you ask people they are usually willing to help you out.

There is a saying for certain companies I've had to consult with when they are failing. They are losing to their competition. But it applies nicely here too. Imitate first, innovate later. Just copy what someone else is doing, & as you do, pay attention & learn for yourself why this works so well. Then you want to go play around with stuff, you will be all the wiser.

The application in business being your competition is outselling you...Why? & How? Step one - Imitate that. Piggy back off the market your competition is already creating. Get a foot hold, some stability. Then innovate. Being innovative from the start is like betting all your chips on one hand. If it doesn't take off, now what? Some companies business models, when they don't go as planned, this is how they get back on track. But with enough capital, it can work from the start....why am I typing all this...

 

[Thelight413]

Tried the low feeding also didn't do well seemed like they liked when I'd hit around 600ppmAnd up And cut the cal-mag out and they seemed to have plenty with around 600ppm or up, just my experience!

I believe with just A+B alone, anything below 600-700 ppm, you will have problems (according to the linked post from down with dirt) so I am really trying to find the happy medium of Base nutes +calimagic because I know for a fact that you do not need to put what Canna recommends into your reservoir...It's simply a waste of money (Yea it works but it's not necessary). Dialing in my additives like calmg, rhyzo, zyme, and boost are what I am concerned with (Throughout veg and flower). These other options seem appealing but I'm not going to switch from proven nutes right now (Even though my system isnt dialed)...thank you for all the advice however if I were to switch to GH. I have dark green leaves and most are tacoing (not a full curl taco but pretty defined), my new growth has flatter leaves yet they look like a mix of dark green and light green which makes me think that something is off.

Anyone out there with a set CANNA recipe willing to help me out, I would be very very grateful.

 

[blazer]

I'm just using A&B Only no additives I range from 600ppm-1000ppm sometimes higher wouldNt say its dialed get some tip burn still couple grows were super healthy through out was tired of mixing magic potions so I said I'll try just canna A&B In canna cocco

 

[Junk]

I believe with just A+B alone, anything below 600-700 ppm, you will have problems (according to the linked post from down with dirt) so I am really trying to find the happy medium of Base nutes +calimagic because I know for a fact that you do not need to put what Canna recommends into your reservoir...It's simply a waste of money (Yea it works but it's not necessary). Dialing in my additives like calmg, rhyzo, zyme, and boost are what I am concerned with (Throughout veg and flower). These other options seem appealing but I'm not going to switch from proven nutes right now (Even though my system isnt dialed)...thank you for all the advice however if I were to switch to GH. I have dark green leaves and most are tacoing (not a full curl taco but pretty defined), my new growth has flatter leaves yet they look like a mix of dark green and light green which makes me think that something is off.

Anyone out there with a set CANNA recipe willing to help me out, I would be very very grateful.

Do you mean like this? Minus the water droplets (that is called guttation)

That is usually a sign that your temp/humidity relationship is off. I see it most with low humidity. Outside, outwest mountain grows I see it a lot. Try to run your temps/rh in line with the vpd charts (be in the green, you may need a humidifier)

I did see it one time where the temps & rh were perfect, it was some sort of nute problem, I don't know what it ended up being.

The following link is courtesy of @Seamaiden



Sorry I can't help you with the Canna. If/when you are ready to switch to GH hit me up & I'll give you the recipe that I use. It's a champ.

I can tell you that aside from my base nutes, I use Cali-magic at 5ml per gallon, Armour Si (GH) also 5 ml, & Botanicaire Liquid Karma 7.5 ml per gallon.

If you want to do the math & figure out what corresponds with Canna, for the base I use (per gallon) GH FloraMicro 8ml, GH FloraBloom 16ml, GH Liquid KoolBloom 5ml. I keep it that way the entire run. If I want a blonde I'll drop the Micro 3ml & use Floranectar (unflavored) at 3 ml.



That & the few things I mentioned above it is exactly what I use. With 0 ppm water it comes in at about 1400 ppm. That seems high, but I suspect the Liquid Karma is what makes it all work. Works like a champ it does. Liquid Karma is liquid gold in my opinion.

 

[Thelight413]

Do you mean like this? Minus the water droplets (that is called guttation)

View attachment 538892

That is usually a sign that your temp/humidity relationship is off. I see it most with low humidity. Outside, outwest mountain grows I see it a lot. Try to run your temps/rh in line with the vpd charts (be in the green, you may need a humidifier)

I did see it one time where the temps & rh were perfect, it was some sort of nute problem, I don't know what it ended up being.

View attachment 538893

The following link is courtesy of @Seamaiden



Sorry I can't help you with the Canna. If/when you are ready to switch to GH hit me up & I'll give you the recipe that I use. It's a champ.

I can tell you that aside from my base nutes, I use Cali-magic at 5ml per gallon, Armour Si (GH) also 5 ml, & Botanicaire Liquid Karma 7.5 ml per gallon.

If you want to do the math & figure out what corresponds with Canna, for the base I use (per gallon) GH FloraMicro 8ml, GH FloraBloom 16ml, GH Liquid KoolBloom 5ml. I keep it that way the entire run. If I want a blonde I'll drop the Micro 3ml & use Floranectar (unflavored) at 3 ml.



That & the few things I mentioned above it is exactly what I use. With 0 ppm water it comes in at about 1400 ppm. That seems high, but I suspect the Liquid Karma is what makes it all work. Works like a champ it does. Liquid Karma is liquid gold in my opinion.

Thanks a bunch man, preciate the help,
If you don't mind me asking, what kind of numbers do you get with that line come harvest time? 1000 watt light i assume? can you get 2# a light?

 

[Junk]

Thanks a bunch man, preciate the help,
If you don't mind me asking, what kind of numbers do you get with that line come harvest time? 1000 watt light i assume? can you get 2# a light?

If you know what you are doing, yes. It will depend on what strains you are running as well. Some are heavy yielders, some are not. My last run was various strains, but I did .72 grams per watt. I've done as high as 1.2.

But for me, it's not about squeezing every last drop out of the yield. I just have fun with it. I pulled close to a pound off a plant one time, simply to see if I could do it. Now I know that I could...& I've moved on.

If you are new, you should be happy if you get .5 grams per watt. My very first run ever, I think I did .36? That was soil & led though.

Now I'm hydro, stronger light, co2, really good temps, etc. Considering the plants I have this time around, I'm hoping to get close to the 1.2 again.

 

[Snake Oil]

There is no perfect level of base and calmag, theres a lot of veriables, strain, environment, the type of media your using, the size of your plants, if your using RO or have hard or soft water and some strains love heavy nutes and calmag and some dont, if your rooms hot and dry you'll want to use less nutes than if your rooms cooler and humid, small plants use less nutes than big ones, in rockwool or grow stones you can feed more nutes than if your using coco or soil but coco generally requires more calmag, if your hand watering coco once a day you use less nutrient than if you have a automated watering system feeding several times a day , if your using Co2 your plants will eat more than if your not. Many many variables, read your plants. But your thinking of using about half strength nutrients is correct, if your seeing deficiencies add more nutrients, if there looking dark grean or getting tip curl or burn back off.

 

[We Solidarity]

I believe with just A+B alone, anything below 600-700 ppm, you will have problems (according to the linked post from down with dirt) so I am really trying to find the happy medium of Base nutes +calimagic because I know for a fact that you do not need to put what Canna recommends into your reservoir...It's simply a waste of money (Yea it works but it's not necessary). Dialing in my additives like calmg, rhyzo, zyme, and boost are what I am concerned with (Throughout veg and flower). These other options seem appealing but I'm not going to switch from proven nutes right now (Even though my system isnt dialed)...thank you for all the advice however if I were to switch to GH. I have dark green leaves and most are tacoing (not a full curl taco but pretty defined), my new growth has flatter leaves yet they look like a mix of dark green and light green which makes me think that something is off.

Anyone out there with a set CANNA recipe willing to help me out, I would be very very grateful.

Hey bud - I'll tell you what's going to be easiest with canna - cut out your additives and cal-mag and run it at 10-12 ml/gal all the way through. PPM should be around 850-1000, I've had huge success with canna running it with no additives. It's my favorite bottled nutrient, the only thing I add to A+B is a pk booster in flower (usually monster bloom).

There's no reason to try to add anything to something that works great on its own, DWD is a good friend of mine and I know he's still using canna, straight A+B, no extras and he's still growing the best nugs in CO.

 

[Thelight413]

Hey bud - I'll tell you what's going to be easiest with canna - cut out your additives and cal-mag and run it at 10-12 ml/gal all the way through. PPM should be around 850-1000, I've had huge success with canna running it with no additives. It's my favorite bottled nutrient, the only thing I add to A+B is a pk booster in flower (usually monster bloom).

There's no reason to try to add anything to something that works great on its own, DWD is a good friend of mine and I know he's still using canna, straight A+B, no extras and he's still growing the best nugs in CO.

@We Solidarity, thanks for helping out... What about for in Veg, feed low like 4-6ml/gal?(My tap EC is .1 so rather soft) no calmg/additives? Is cannazyme not necessary also, I have a small bottle that's about empty and just curious if its even worth buying, im not reusing my coco but I have been using zyme through this current grow, seems like alot of folks dont bother with it

 

[We Solidarity]

Use up the rest of your zyme, never buy it again. And ya I was keeping it at 10 ml/gal soon as I tp'd clones, all the way up to flower, then I'd bump it to 12 ml/gal, then week 3 back down to 10ml with 1-2 tbsp/50gal monster bloom every other day. Never checked pH it was always between 5.9-6.3 which is perfect for me

 

[Junk]

Never checked pH it was always between 5.9-6.3 which is perfect for me

I'm having trouble reconciling that statement ;)

(I know what you mean, I do the same thing, it's just funny)

 

[Thelight413]

Use up the rest of your zyme, never buy it again. And ya I was keeping it at 10 ml/gal soon as I tp'd clones, all the way up to flower, then I'd bump it to 12 ml/gal, then week 3 back down to 10ml with 1-2 tbsp/50gal monster bloom every other day. Never checked pH it was always between 5.9-6.3 which is perfect for me

right on, very much appreciated man. I will update this thread with my next round to show results with this feed.

 

[Junk]

right on, very much appreciated man. I will update this thread with my next round to show results with this feed.

If you want to use an microbial product I would suggest Great White or Orca. I prefer the GW, I just have all these freebies the hydro shop gives me that I end up using cuz they are free. But the GW does a very good job in my opinion. Unlike most other products, I find the directions/amounts to be about right. If anyone has a different opinion I'd like to hear it so I can try a different amount & see. I just picked up a bottle for a totally different reason, so I have it again to play with. I've gone a little over/under & not noticed anything better with going over, but going under I don't see the same results.

GW has a number of the Rizo's whereas the Orca, iirc, does not. The Orca is made specifically for hydro, but I've never had a problem dissolving the GW in water.

If you use GW, you shouldn't need to use an enzyme product, unless something has gone wrong. E.g. you develop root rot so you use Hygrozyme, Bioguard or the like.

I have been told that once you start using Hygrozyme you must continue to use it. I don't find this to be the case. I'll use it during a flush & that's it, with no problems. I wouldn't use one of those types of products though unless you need it.

Orca or GW should be everything you need in that department.

 

[Thelight413]

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