Going For Gold

[DankTreez14]

What up fellow cannabis cultivars. I'm going for the gold this grow and would like to know what you guys think. i'm going to be starting a perpetual which is a first for me. I've been growing for five years and finally I am able to perpetually harvest some dank. 4000 total wattage with 2000 for veg and 2000 for flower. five gallon buckets filled with perlite, gh nutes, co2, full ventilation, light cooling, man i can't wait. pics coming soon. let me know some of your perpetual secrets. peace

 

[bluewaves]

3 rooms 14k watts harvest every month...no veg room needed,all beds and all simple

 

[dankworth]

If you run perpetual the co2 thing will be tricky. It is very important to run non-elevated co2 during last 2 weeks of flower. It will impair quality. And they need different humidity profiles at different stages of flower to optimize results.
I wanted to run perpetual too. But my quality would have suffered too much, so I couldn't.

And may I recommend looking into coco/perlite mixes. Coco/perlite mixes make plants and their roots do things that 100% perlite cannot.
And you may find that if you have 2k in flower constantly going then you may not need a full 2k in veg.

 

[DankTreez14]

14k wow thats awesome blue. beds? so you run soil?

dankworth thanks for chiming in. what percentage coco/perlite do you recommend? also what should i do about the wattage in veg? 3k in flower and 1k in veg? oh yea and the humidity should be at what and at what stage?

 

[El Cerebro]

Dankworth I'm trolling you. So you alluded to this in that other thread, what exactly are the consequences of leaving the co2 turned up through the end? If it's a big enough effect to keep you from mixing the plants, maybe I should rethink my plan too?

I hear the term perpetual used several ways lately, always thought it just meant continual cloning in a broad sense and what we're talking about is actually interval? (not that it matters) I'm just trying to spread out the drying and trimming work, without getting too complicated and a room for every other week, etc.

 

[dankworth]

Troll on El Cerebro. It is all good. I hope i do not hijack the threads of others too much.
Running elevated co2 during flush leads to more weight. And less taste. And a much harder trim. Someone on the uc forums talked about this, and their assessment was the same thing. Like rock hard nugs(but not in that good of a way) with lots of leaf. To me, less flavor, less terpenes, less potency, less medical effectiveness. Lower quality.
Once I had the best weed ever, I have been trying to reproduce it. Co2 management is absolutely one of the puzzle pieces. Atmospheric levels for last 2 weeks.
Problem is, like that, with no perpetual anything, the whole room has to get trimmed at once. That can be really tough. I wish I could do perpetual, new plants every 2-3 weeks or so. But I can't.

 

[DankTreez14]

Bump

14k wow thats awesome blue. beds? so you run soil?

dankworth thanks for chiming in. what percentage coco/perlite do you recommend? also what should i do about the wattage in veg? 3k in flower and 1k in veg? oh yea and the humidity should be at what and at what stage?

 

[dankworth]

Hey, sorry about not noticing your questions. I get high...
And don't manage my account very well. So I lose track of stuff like this.
You took the high road and didn't spam-post your way into being able to pm me, ha ha.

On to your questions...
The ratio of coco to perlite is all up to you. Recently, I have seen enough statements from the big kids on the site to publicly recommend chow mix(hydroton/coco).
Coco/perlite is still awesome. But respected peeps are saying they get higher growth rates with chow mix than with coco/perlite.
Perlite is much cheaper and lighter, and in many ways easier to work with.
Whatever you amend the coco with, the ratio of whatever/coco will dictate growth rate, and how frequently you have to water. Less coco=higher growth rate, more frequent irrigations required.
I have been copying Mr. Dizzle with 75% perlite, 25% coco. But if I had it to do over I would go as low as 10% coco, just the bare minimum so I could have a place for bennies to kick it, and get all the awesome root behavior coco is famous for.
For chow mix, I have never ran it. I see peeps talking about 60-70% clay pellets. I am not sure if there would be a problem for instance if you took the ratio of clay pellets to 80 or 90%. Best to duplicate the efforts of others in many ways, it makes any problem that comes along easier to troubleshoot.

You should run 3k flower 1k veg.
Having a 1k veg light in a super sun 2 reflector backed up to the ceiling with plants on the floor KICKS ASS. IT KICKS ASS. F--K ANYTHING ELSE.
I have had a lot of fun with simply rocking a 1k veg light. I mom with it, I clone with it, I veg with it. The bright-ass MH sun in their sky makes them sturdy as fuck from the beginning. Having a much more intense light source backed up in my experience has been far better than a lower-wattage lamp closer. I now do not have stupid problems in veg from stalling due to lighting.
It is easier to generate and maintain momentum in veg growth if you veg with that 1k MH. Wait until you have plants stall, if you have not experienced it yet. It really throws a wrench in the works.

Read up on VPD(vapor pressure deficit). I personally shoot for 70% in veg and first two weeks of flowering, 2nd 2 weeks I run more like 60%. Then last 5 weeks of flower I will try to keep it no higher than 55% if I can help it, with a target of more like 50%. Check out some of my other posts regarding VPD, I go into greater detail.

Oh and homey with the 14k and beds?
Numbers are of course a very delicate topic. But know that everyone running beds with short/no veg time run high numbers. I am under the impression that this is tolerated in some areas of Norcal. And no where else. So the advocacy of large ops with beds may require a slightly more guerilla attitude.

Do the research and figure out the penalty in your area for different ways of managing your numbers, and figure out what you can live with. Beds will certainly generate more results annually. If I could I sure would.

And if you have other specific questions I can try to point you in the right direction.
Hope this information is useful.

 

[El Cerebro]

I'll second almost all that except the perlite dominant styles which I've never used (although frequently have dreams where I'm carrying around two big bags of it over my head, instead of lugging hydroton). Not sure about only 10% coco with hydroton or other rocks, guess its enough to breed some bennnies, but seems sorta close to straight hydro.

Running beds sounds fun, and super effecient no doubt, but I've got this card in my wallet that says to do it the opposite way, and I have enough trouble with authority as it is..

Yo Dankworth, I'm interested in your advice on finishing co2/humidity levels and have been searching around. Can you point me toward any sources/discussions? Pretty sure you've shamed me into modifying my space now and adding a cabana di morte. Btw, any thoughts on temps and light hours for the final weeks? Do you cut supplemental co2 altogether?

 

[dankworth]

Post UC Concerns and Questions Here p.3 has a chart you should bookmark with recommended temp, rh, co2, etc for much of this info. It might have the c02 level during flush discussion. I would run atmospheric levels of co2 for the last 2 weeks. The higher the co2 levels are during flush, the less I like the weed. Humidity around 40% or maybe thirties during flush seems to frost them up. JK says around 30% rh their internal chemistry gets problems. They don't like as much heat and light during this time, their metabolism slows down and they don't want the environment that they grew fast in. Exceeding these needs can piss them off and lead to worse weed.

After running 25% coco more than once I am more interested in clay pellets and as little coco as I can get away with. I will start at 10% coco and see how the mix feels. One important thing to look for is wicking capability. I like to have 1-1 1/2 inches of water at the bottom of my containers, with no coco there, forming the classic hempy passive res. That way, if a pump fails or something, they can survive much longer than say smart pots.

I give them lower temps last 2 weeks like closer to 75 degrees than 80. If I could I would run all mh the last 2 weeks. Yes on atmospheric (350-400) ppms for co2. I need to play more with turning the clock back the last 2 weeks. I think it is what they want.
Is cabana di morte like a finishing room?

 

[El Cerebro]

Heres the link, sorry need to learn how to upload images:

I love stuff like this, so always have temper that attitude with skepticism then chase down primary sources due to all the incorrect nonsense floating around the web. That being said, cch20 seems super legit when it comes to general growing advice, even aside from using his system. I'm especially intrigued at his temperature graphs, and wondering how much those figures interact with the fact he's running a chilled root system? I'm going hunting for more info on all this..

Im eager to see how your watering sched goes with 90/10. If it works well, that could be a speedy sys. I've transitioned somewhat to hempy style too, and you have to watch the wicking more with hydro in the bottom compared to perlite (another hint from JK that saved me from wasting time). That's why I did some mockups and decided to run the straight hydro part deeper - 3.5" on my latest version, hole ~2in up, 5gal, at flwr wk2currently, res can go a couple days if necc although I still top feed every day. Your mix will obviously wick differently above the straight hydro layer. Once I get this dialed I'll scale it to 25ish gal buckets or totes to run vert.

I'm with you on the light switch near the end, uvb, etc, but do you drop the W/sqft? We're leaning somewhat toward quality over quantity here obviously (caveat for innocent bystanders). Tent of death doesn't sound so romantic..

 

[bluewaves]

Running beds!??

Running beds doesn't mean u have to run high numbers!
Just simple for me to not water every pot and logging out soil after every runs
Just simple for me,I never said SOG beds just soils less beds lol,..:dull

 

[El Cerebro]

Nice, always wondered how that would go with bigger plants. Are they scrogged? Do you separate the root systems or just let them mingle at the edges? What sort of soil-less?

I thought about using very shallow/wide containers to steal some extra ceiling clearance, but the logistics of working around them seemed like a deal breaker unless it's under a subfloor. Working with 9ft so was hoping to double stack some 600s and keep a few trees a little narrower and taller than with single 1ks.