going from 20 hrs light to 15ish

[RoadKillSkunkHunt]

and their my girls anyways so what's with every one's negative attitude?

herming can also be attributed to genetics as some of these crosses are prone to that. just like some are prone to mould etc.
am i wrong on that as well?
maybe you grow land races but i don't have the climate outdoors to doo it

I don't grow landraces, and you're not wrong about genetics playing at least some role in herming.

I'm in an area where we reach 10 hrs of darkness around the second week of August. Even I don't have enough moderate weather before the fall sets in and the cold wet nights wreak havoc on your crop. I tried quick flowering plants. However from the middle of September on, every night hits the dew point and every morning plants are wet. This is a recipe for fungal issues and I have lost plenty of flowers to these problems .... and I grow inside a greenhouse.

Here's what Gemini had to say about your claim regarding Dr Bruce Bigbee and flowering under 15 hours of light:

Question: What does Dr Bruce Bugbee say about flowering photoperiod cannabis under 15 hours of light.

Dr. Bruce Bugbee, a renowned plant physiologist at Utah State University, focuses heavily on optimizing light for cannabis cultivation, including photoperiodism.
Based on information available from his research and discussions:

• 12/12 is the Standard for Flowering Induction: Dr. Bugbee's work, and the scientific consensus he operates within, recognizes that photoperiod cannabis plants initiate flowering when the dark period is sufficiently long. The 12 hours of light / 12 hours of uninterrupted darkness (12/12) cycle is the industry standard and scientifically validated method for reliably inducing flowering in most photoperiod cannabis strains.
• Emphasis on Daily Light Integral (DLI): While photoperiod is about the duration of light and dark, Dr. Bugbee heavily emphasizes Daily Light Integral (DLI), which is the total amount of photosynthetically active radiation (PAR) a plant receives over a 24-hour period. Higher DLI generally leads to higher yields, assuming all other factors (CO2, nutrients, temperature) are optimized.
  
• Potential for More Light During Flowering (but with sufficient darkness): Some discussions referencing Dr. Bugbee's work, or his students' findings, suggest that growers might be "leaving money on the table" by strictly adhering to 12/12 for the entire flowering period. The idea is that after flowering has been successfully initiated by a sufficient dark period (e.g., 12+ hours), increasing the photoperiod slightly (e.g., to 13 or 14 hours of light, meaning 11 or 10 hours of darkness respectively) in later stages of flower might allow for higher DLI and thus potentially higher yields, without interrupting the established flowering process. This is a topic of ongoing research and grower experimentation.
• 9 Hours of Darkness (15 hours of light) is generally insufficient for initiation: There is no indication from Dr. Bugbee's publicly available research or statements that 9 hours of darkness (15 hours of light) is a reliable or recommended photoperiod to initiate flowering in typical photoperiod cannabis. Photoperiodic plants require a critical period of darkness to switch from vegetative growth to reproductive growth. 9 hours of darkness is generally below this critical threshold for most strains.
  

In essence, Dr. Bugbee's research supports optimizing light intensity (PPFD) and total light (DLI) for maximum yield, even during flowering, but this is always within the context of providing the sufficient uninterrupted dark period (typically 12 hours) necessary to trigger the flowering response in photoperiod plants.

 

[imgrowing]

Best of luck to you. I've explained how this works. I've explained your options. I even told you what you should do before you moved them outside to 20 gallon bags. On top of that, there were many other people stating you're barking up the wrong tree. Your photo-period plant experiment isn't new. It's been done many times before with disappointing results.

At least you have the auto-flowers. You will have cannabis with those.



Show me where Dr Bruce Bugbee says you can do what you're trying to do? No where in any of his lectures will he tell you that you can flower a short day cannabis under a long day light cycle.

Again, best of luck.

no sense going back and forth on this anymore. i as i said not going to reverse it, so we'll just have to see what happens.
as of now their head high and looking healthy as hell. i'm only 5'8 so no big deal.
besides, i hand trim and the thought of trimming several lbs gives me nightmares.

 

[RoadKillSkunkHunt]

no sense going back and forth on this anymore. i as i said not going to reverse it, so we'll just have to see what happens.
as of now their head high and looking healthy as hell. i'm only 5'8 so no big deal.
besides, i hand trim and the thought of trimming several lbs gives me nightmares.

With a bad back, it should ... that's a lot of hours in trim jail.

Next year, if you want to grow photos, put them on a trailer and use a tractor to move them in and out of a dark barn .... or simply find your favorite cultivars in their auto-flowering versions.

 

[imgrowing]

I don't grow landraces, and you're not wrong about genetics playing at least some role in herming.

I'm in an area where we reach 10 hrs of darkness around the second week of August. Even I don't have enough moderate weather before the fall sets in and the cold wet nights wreak havoc on your crop. I tried quick flowering plants. However from the middle of September on, every night hits the dew point and every morning plants are wet. This is a recipe for fungal issues and I have lost plenty of flowers to these problems .... and I grow inside a greenhouse.

Here's what Gemini had to say about your claim regarding Dr Bruce Bigbee and flowering under 15 hours of light:

Question: What does Dr Bruce Bugbee say about flowering photoperiod cannabis under 15 hours of light.

Dr. Bruce Bugbee, a renowned plant physiologist at Utah State University, focuses heavily on optimizing light for cannabis cultivation, including photoperiodism.
Based on information available from his research and discussions:

• 12/12 is the Standard for Flowering Induction: Dr. Bugbee's work, and the scientific consensus he operates within, recognizes that photoperiod cannabis plants initiate flowering when the dark period is sufficiently long. The 12 hours of light / 12 hours of uninterrupted darkness (12/12) cycle is the industry standard and scientifically validated method for reliably inducing flowering in most photoperiod cannabis strains.
• Emphasis on Daily Light Integral (DLI): While photoperiod is about the duration of light and dark, Dr. Bugbee heavily emphasizes Daily Light Integral (DLI), which is the total amount of photosynthetically active radiation (PAR) a plant receives over a 24-hour period. Higher DLI generally leads to higher yields, assuming all other factors (CO2, nutrients, temperature) are optimized.
• Potential for More Light During Flowering (but with sufficient darkness): Some discussions referencing Dr. Bugbee's work, or his students' findings, suggest that growers might be "leaving money on the table" by strictly adhering to 12/12 for the entire flowering period. The idea is that after flowering has been successfully initiated by a sufficient dark period (e.g., 12+ hours), increasing the photoperiod slightly (e.g., to 13 or 14 hours of light, meaning 11 or 10 hours of darkness respectively) in later stages of flower might allow for higher DLI and thus potentially higher yields, without interrupting the established flowering process. This is a topic of ongoing research and grower experimentation.
• 9 Hours of Darkness (15 hours of light) is generally insufficient for initiation: There is no indication from Dr. Bugbee's publicly available research or statements that 9 hours of darkness (15 hours of light) is a reliable or recommended photoperiod to initiate flowering in typical photoperiod cannabis. Photoperiodic plants require a critical period of darkness to switch from vegetative growth to reproductive growth. 9 hours of darkness is generally below this critical threshold for most strains.

In essence, Dr. Bugbee's research supports optimizing light intensity (PPFD) and total light (DLI) for maximum yield, even during flowering, but this is always within the context of providing the sufficient uninterrupted dark period (typically 12 hours) necessary to trigger the flowering response in photoperiod plants.

you get 10 hrs in august? wow
your near the equator then.
must be nice

 

[RoadKillSkunkHunt]

you get 10 hrs in august? wow
your near the equator then.
must be nice

Michigan is a long way from the equator ... people do manage to finish some cultivars here but its as much luck as it is skill with the weather challenges. Mother nature is one thing not in our control.

 

[imgrowing]

With a bad back, it should ... that's a lot of hours in trim jail.

Next year, if you want to grow photos, put them on a trailer and use a tractor to move them in and out of a dark barn .... or simply find your favorite cultivars in their auto-flowering versions.

the

Michigan is a long way from the equator ... people do manage to finish some cultivars here but its as much luck as it is skill with the weather challenges. Mother nature is one thing not in our control.

michigan gets 10 hrs darkness in august?
i never would have thought that.

 

[imgrowing]

the

michigan gets 10 hrs darkness in august?
i never would have thought that.

also i live in the city so they frown on building a barn to grow pot.
bunch of pussies here.
lol

 

[RoadKillSkunkHunt]

the

michigan gets 10 hrs darkness in august?
i never would have thought that.

And I just looked up Vancouver Island ... Zone 8 although some areas are zone 9. You hit 10 hours of darkness around the 1st of September. You're at 12 hours of darkness on the fall equinox which is well before November. Your climate goes bad with wet and cool weather once fall rolls in. Its that weather more so than frost that makes cannabis cultivation outside difficult that time of the year.

 

[imgrowing]

And I just looked up Vancouver Island ... Zone 8 although some areas are zone 9. You hit 10 hours of darkness around the 1st of September. You're at 12 hours of darkness on the fall equinox which is well before November. Your climate goes bad with wet and cool weather once fall rolls in. Its that weather more so than frost that makes cannabis cultivation outside difficult that time of the year.

sorry your wrong. oct 12 is 10 hrs darkness in zone 9a

 

[RoadKillSkunkHunt]

sorry your wrong. oct 12 is 10 hrs darkness in zone 9a

No ... autumn equinox falls around the 21-22nd of September. At that time, you have equal day and night length, which is what equinox means. If a day is 24 hrs, equal light and darkness would be 12/12 and that would fall at the end of September .... universally. The equinox doesn't change no matter where you are in the world. Whether or not its the spring or fall equinox would be determined by your hemisphere ...

Edit: Gemini again ...

For a representative location on Vancouver Island, such as Victoria, British Columbia, on October 12, 2025:

The length of daylight will be approximately 10 hours, 59 minutes, and 44 seconds.

This means the night length will be just over 13 hours.

 

[imgrowing]

No ... autumn equinox falls around the 21-22nd of September. At that time, you have equal day and night length, which is what equinox means. If a day is 24 hrs, equal light and darkness would be 12/12 and that would fall at the end of September .... universally. The equinox doesn't change no matter where you are in the world. Whether or not its the spring or fall equinox would be determined by your hemisphere ...

Edit: Gemini again ...

For a representative location on Vancouver Island, such as Victoria, British Columbia, on October 12, 2025:

The length of daylight will be approximately 10 hours, 59 minutes, and 44 seconds.

This means the night length will be just over 13 hours.

i know but you were saying 10 hrs darkness sept 1 which is wrong.
and again, it's to late to change anything so let's just drop this, ok?

change of topic, how're your girls doing?
not a whole lot to look at for me yet.
in the shade for a several days then out into the sun/shade area for a week then into full sun.

 

[Week4Bytch]

No one is trying to be a dick. No one is hoping your grow fails. What people are pointing out is the physiology of short day plants. They are genetically programmed to flower at a specific darkness intervals ... meaning 10 hrs or more of darkness. This is universal with photo-period cannabis plants. The change from 20 hrs of light to 16 hrs of light is usually not enough on its own to trigger flowering because 16 hrs of light in nature is still a long day light cycle.

Yes, its a 4 hr drop in the amount of light it receives. No, its not going to be enough to trigger flowering because of the genetic make-up of the plant. The only exception would be plants that have been bred for either "fast flower" ... which moves the goalpost for flowering to about 9.5 hrs of darkness or "auto-flowers."

I told you a couple of weeks ago that your only sure-fire way to ensure a harvest is to grow auto-flower plants on Vancouver Island. You still have time but in a few more weeks, that time will be behind you. Now, once again, no one is trying to be a dick or "wants" you to fail .... what you're trying to do with your argument is to re-invent the way nature has made cannabis to flower. This is beyond your control no matter what you do or how hard you try .... short of light deprivation techniques to get your plants flowering.

Your experiment is paramount to saying "If I try hard enough and drop enough rocks, maybe one will defy gravity and float instead of fall to the ground." This is why you sense people giving off a negative vibe to your posts. They know that cannabis doesn't work they way you want it to and your experiment will end in disappointment.

Or you can take my advice and grow some auto-flowers and have a nice bountiful harvest by September.

I couldn't have worded this any better, nice write up. Now I'm curious if this is the slowest train wreck ever or if they do actually flower in July/August.

 

[RoadKillSkunkHunt]

i know but you were saying 10 hrs darkness sept 1 which is wrong.
and again, it's to late to change anything so let's just drop this, ok?

change of topic, how're your girls doing?
not a whole lot to look at for me yet.
in the shade for a several days then out into the sun/shade area for a week then into full sun.

I just got done hauling out just a bit over 3 lbs from a 5 x 5. I won't be growing another cannabis plant until late August/Early September when I start my winter runs. Here's a few pictures of my greenhouse.

 

[Oldchucky]

june 4th and i put girls outside.
went from 20 hrs light inside to 15 hrs 56 seconds outside light and decreasing after june 21st.
my thought is that photo period plants sense decreasing hrs of light and switch to flower.
this 12 hour darkness in order to flower to me makes zero sense.
my thought is it takes 2-3 weeks to start transition to flower anyways so that should work good.
may or may not work, i'll let u know.

I predict they will start flowering the the middle of August! they will start flowering when mother nature tells them to start flowering! Nothing you have done prior to putting them outdoors will have any effect on when they start flowering!

 

[RoadKillSkunkHunt]

I predict they will start flowering the the middle of August! they will start flowering when mother nature tells them to start flowering!

He's in zone 9a ... 10 hours of darkness hits his area about the 1st of September.

I did a bit of research though ... I'm in zone 5b but his location in the pacific northwest gives him better growing weather than I have in Michigan. In my area, photos start flowering in mid August but by mid September, cool wet nights set in making hitting the finish line a matter of luck as well as skill. It almost always frosts by the first of November even in recent years.

 

[Oldchucky]

He's in zone 9a ... 10 hours of darkness hits his area about the 1st of September.

I did a bit of research though ... I'm in zone 5b but his location in the pacific northwest gives him better growing weather than I have in Michigan. In my area, photos start flowering in mid August but by mid September, cool wet nights set in making hitting the finish line a matter of luck as well as skill. It almost always frosts by the first of November even in recent years.

Yeah, I know! Mid August was very optimistic! Could be even later! I am pissed when Mine flower before the middle of August! I can live with the last week! And I am ecstatic when they wait till the first or second week of September! So it can vary! The $64,000 question is if you can finish them! But you can always harvest a month early and call it dank!

 

[RoadKillSkunkHunt]

Yeah, I know! Mid August was very optimistic! Could be even later! I am pissed when Mine flower before the middle of August! I can live with the last week! And I am ecstatic when they wait till the first or second week of September! So it can vary! The $64,000 question is if you can finish them! But you can always harvest a month early and call it dank!

Unless I decide to build the 4 season greenhouse I would like to, I'm not sure I'll ever attempt another photo-period plant outdoors. Autos yes but not photos. Why would I? I can get two photo runs through indoors starting by September and wrapping up late May ... that's 2 runs of craft level cannabis and way more than I can smoke in an entire year.

 

[Oldchucky]

Unless I decide to build the 4 season greenhouse I would like to, I'm not sure I'll ever attempt another photo-period plant outdoors. Autos yes but not photos. Why would I? I can get two photo runs through indoors starting by September and wrapping up late May ... that's 2 runs of craft level cannabis and way more than I can smoke in an entire year.

I agree! You learn what possible and not possible in your area! Then make adjustments! Nothing wrong with a little good old-fashioned horse sense! And it only cost you a couple of good beat downs by dear mother nature! That’s what it cost me! But it’s a good way to learn!

 

[Week4Bytch]

Unless I decide to build the 4 season greenhouse I would like to, I'm not sure I'll ever attempt another photo-period plant outdoors. Autos yes but not photos. Why would I? I can get two photo runs through indoors starting by September and wrapping up late May ... that's 2 runs of craft level cannabis and way more than I can smoke in an entire year.

If you live in idea conditions..then yeah an out door grow makes sense, free light yada yada.. but like you, living in the desert, gonna be 108 degrees tomorrow, probably not a good idea. I have two testers (that I don't really care about) sitting in pots outside to see for myself how they'll fair in this heat. They're already struggling... And this weekend will be the acid test (with highs near 110 degrees) indoor grow for me (is the way)

 

[RoadKillSkunkHunt]

I agree! You learn what possible and not possible in your area! Then make adjustments! Nothing wrong with a little good old-fashioned horse sense! And it only cost you a couple of good beat downs by dear mother nature! That’s what it cost me! But it’s a good way to learn!

I look back and today I laugh at some of my first attempts. I was green and had no idea what I was getting into attempting to grow outdoors. I saw this picture in my memories today. It's the first year of my greenhouse and the date is Aug 8th 2020.

This is a 20ft polycarbonate hoop house and it was like this front to back. I planted them in the ground in June. I had no idea ....