HALP! CMH lights- what is going on?

Thetinman · Mar 23, 2021

Now, I have a much more detailed understanding at 420magazine. Just could not copy everything to this site. Under "Halp! CMH lights..." you can see step by step differences....
So lights just turned back on. They look better than all the rest. Raised to 6500lux, 70rh or 45% humidity at 77-81°.

Tasty Buds · Mar 23, 2021

Have you had the grow space tested? There is are toxic buildings. I hope that's not the case...just saying

Thetinman · Mar 23, 2021

What....? Hahahaha, that's doubtful. There getting better. It's more about the reflection, Orca nearly demolished the whole thing. The ridges are causing bright spikes...all AROUND the whole room! So doing the whole wall area that starts ABOVE light line, like 7.5 feet, down to floor of room. I might take a picture to show how much there is 10' away. Then when its covered.

Tasty Buds · Mar 23, 2021

Have you had a successful grow there?

Thetinman · Mar 23, 2021

Not yet, high desert in Cali, compared to north Georgia. Complete change like a virgin....gnite

Tasty Buds · Mar 23, 2021

Thetinman said:
Not yet, high desert in Cali, compared to north Georgia. Complete change like a virgin....gnite

Just to br safe, have it checked out. Growing in altitude treated me unbelievably. I really hope that's not the case..
Are you using tap water, what's the water supply?

Frankster · Mar 23, 2021

Thetinman said:
Update:
Dropped humidity to 70rh,
Dropped lights to 7k.
Getting greener, absolutely ZERO
YELLOWING. Reflection causes yellowing.

I got a feeling that with the CMH that's part of the issues, there seems to be a lot of difference between reflected ambient light and light coming straight off the source, there's a big intensity difference. Reflected light's probably better when it's concentrated to some degree and the intensity is sufficient.

When I was running CMH, i used to run 2 1000w DE units@1200w each, I would have probably been better off running a bunch of 400 watt units in an array instead, allowing for more spread, while lowering the unit further into the canopy, net gain in free intensity.

ie. the sun puts out more light than a distant supernova. These are were efficiency is greatly realized.

I notice a big difference between my Spyder type unit vs the Quantums, even with the same basic Samsung 301H diodes, spread out is way more efficient, and it can be dialed closer into a more spread out area, further increasing the gains. Then intensity can be further manipulated with the dial. for example, I'm at full strength on the quantum @4 foot, but I'm at 33% full power @ 2 foot with the spyder, with double the area at lower power.

Note the t5 I use in the background to supplement UV from the A-B spectrum, during flowering to increase terpenoid production and THC content/quality/complexity. aka "suntanning the plant with beneficial stressors."

Indeed, certain strains could become highly individualized with very specific lighting spectrum regimes, altering chemical profiles of oil/terpene content, and complexity. Trade secrets are likely to become obstacles to further progress, it's already happening. People don't want to give away their "edge"

Frankster · Mar 23, 2021

Plants contain at least three different photoreceptor systems that are involved in modulating development: phytochromes, which primarily absorb red and far-red light, blue-light/UV-A receptors, and UV-B recep- tors. The photosynthetic pigments comprise an additional group of photoreceptors.

Light signals have profound morphogenic effects on plant development. Signals perceived by the red/far‐red absorbing phytochrome family of photoreceptors and the blue/green/ UV‐A absorbing cryptochrome photoreceptor converge on a group of pleiotropic gene products defined by the COP/DET loci to control the pattern of development. The signaling pathway, although still undefined, includes several classic signaling molecules, such as G‐proteins, calcium, calmodulin, and cGMP. A separate signaling pathway is involved in the modulation of the phototropic response. Additional mutants have been identified that affect subsets of light signaling responses. This review provides an overview of our current understanding of the light signaling process, in particular recent genetic and biochemical advances.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/07352689609382367?journalCode=bpts20

Plants use sunlight not only as an energy source for photosynthesis but also as an informational cue to control a broad range of developmental and physiological responses throughout their life cycle (Franklin et al. 2005; Kami et al. 2010). These responses include seed germination, de-etiolation, directional growth, organelle movement, flowering, and senescence that are mediated by various cellular responses such as gene expression, protein modification etc. Plants have evolved unique photoreceptor systems to mediate the light responses in response to broad wavelengths from ultraviolet-B (UV-B) to far-red light.

Diverse photoreceptors and light responses in plants - Journal of Plant Research

link.springer.com

Tasty Buds · Mar 23, 2021

There are only a couple reasons you couldn't get a cannabis seed to germ, and grow.
There are 4 things cannabis needs to grow, and they have to be right.
1st, to germ a seed they need a dark moist warm area (that's why the paper towel method works)
Seedlings will grow with no usable light. They'll just get too tall, and fall over.

4 things cannabis needs to grow (but
1)Sun
2)(air)
3)water
4) a place for root development

Have you have all those in place, you shouldn't have any issues growing.
Why you are struggling IDK, but time is $.

Suggestion. Take a seed to another location, and see if you can get it started there. Use bottled water to be sure.

The way the OP described his location, I would imagine everything is dialed in. My guess is his lighting is in the correct spectrum. More than likely his lighting is is suited for cannabis growth?

Check the 4 necessitates.

Thetinman · Mar 23, 2021

Good stuff mon!
But......they did double in size.....

Thetinman · Mar 23, 2021

Frankster said:
I got a feeling that with the CMH that's part of the issues, there seems to be a lot of difference between reflected ambient light and light coming straight off the source, there's a big intensity difference. Reflected light's probably better when it's concentrated to some degree and the intensity is sufficient.

When I was running CMH, i used to run 2 1000w DE units@1200w each, I would have probably been better off running a bunch of 400 watt units in an array instead, allowing for more spread, while lowering the unit further into the canopy, net gain in free intensity.

ie. the sun puts out more light than a distant supernova. These are were efficiency is greatly realized.

I notice a big difference between my Spyder type unit vs the Quantums, even with the same basic Samsung 301H diodes, spread out is way more efficient, and it can be dialed closer into a more spread out area, further increasing the gains. Then intensity can be further manipulated with the dial. for example, I'm at full strength on the quantum @4 foot, but I'm at 33% full power @ 2 foot with the spyder, with double the area at lower power.

Note the t5 I use in the background to supplement UV from the A-B spectrum, during flowering to increase terpenoid production and THC content/quality/complexity. aka "suntanning the plant with beneficial stressors."

Indeed, certain strains could become highly individualized with very specific lighting spectrum regimes, altering chemical profiles of oil/terpene content, and complexity. Trade secrets are likely to become obstacles to further progress, it's already happening. People don't want to give away their "edge"

Exactly! This experiment is to find out more about this issue. Why is there problems....at all?
But, by using the most effective reflection that's available, Orca, showed the problem like some roided out muscle head. Shocked at what happened there...wow!
And then reversing that completly, by absolutely shutting down ANY reflection, has shown such good promise.
All I am saying, is some light intensity like UV and now CMH if you reflect those 2 you will wish you hadn't. It's not something that you can measure with a lux meter. It's the sheer intensity of all those frac tiled beams concentrating THROUGH what we believe can be measured easily. Nope, try walking around under those conditions, honestly I can feel radiation, redhead, its like a microwave!

Aqua Man · Mar 23, 2021

Why flat white is recommended... any reflective material that focuses light will burn plants... just like a magnifying glass.

Thetinman · Mar 23, 2021

True,
I have used Orca on all my grows previously. HPS AND MH. But what I am saying is "why does it not work with CMH." If you were to take a lux meter and place it on my table.
Still, if I walk around the table there are heavy differences, this is AFTER I blacked out what I did, 7' up to about 2 feet up wall. Its flipping crazy!
Orca is the best on the market, period. Never ever had problems before, even if they rubbed, the leaf would get fried, but never any other part of the plant (making sure your lights are replaced in a proper manner ), obviously it seems to me, they reflected SO much it became a microwave. There was brilliant white white light. Like on a beach like the Fla panhandle, sugar sand reflection.
The transfer of light, from reflection will always lose SOMETHING, RIGHT? I don't think there was ANY loss using ORCA and CMH.
That being said, if there is perfect reflection, then it's like all 4 walls, using 2 lights. It's like 12 different angles of reflection (plus 2 for the bulbs!)
It just built up so much, myself included and my plants almost fell out, just doing HALF the room!

Reflection, any reflection causes harm using CMH, that's all I am saying, "just dont do it." Will be plasticating all walls with heavy mil black plastic (damn, floor is white too!)
I won't lower lights any more for now.
Hopefully will show by picture I will be sending in near future....
Presently at 70rh, 77-81° 6600lux 22on 2 off.

Thetinman · Mar 23, 2021

I did have 3 good size leafs that were like TOTALLY ragged out and just hanging there, on the two big girls. You cannot tell which ones they were! In an unforgiving world we play in, these light bring life, seems like full life, back into my plants. See it to believe it...

T

Madmax · Mar 23, 2021

I just use t5hos first 3 weeks before using the cmh..seedlings dont need much at the start and they make a very comfortable enviroment for them..i have the cmh bout 34' atm..very intense light ..i like them.they keep the nodes close together..

Tasty Buds · Mar 23, 2021

Thetinman said:
Exactly! This experiment is to find out more about this issue. Why is there problems....at all?
But, by using the most effective reflection that's available, Orca, showed the problem like some roided out muscle head. Shocked at what happened there...wow!
And then reversing that completly, by absolutely shutting down ANY reflection, has shown such good promise.
All I am saying, is some light intensity like UV and now CMH if you reflect those 2 you will wish you hadn't. It's not something that you can measure with a lux meter. It's the sheer intensity of all those frac tiled beams concentrating THROUGH what we believe can be measured easily. Nope, try walking around under those conditions, honestly I can feel radiation, redhead, its like a microwave!

A CMH has the correct spectrums for cannabis growth.
The only way a CMH would kill his plants would to keep them so close the plants burn up, and the OP seems way too experienced to allow that.
If the OP has had successfully grown cannabis before, there's no obvious reason he can't grow now.
Again Air, sun (CMH), and a place for the roots to anchor is all anyone should need to get cannabis plants growing.
Reflection is a good thing. Panda, and Orca is good stuff, and wouldn't make a difference either way.
I've been growing for decades. Cannabis is a very strong resilient plant.
The laws of physics do not change in your grow spot.
You have to explore all avenues

Thetinman · Mar 23, 2021

Hmmm, I got to disagree with you there. Cant be used with CMH. you will always get yellowing. Here 8s some of those leaves the were so wilted yesterday when I added ORCA.
When installed I simply readjusted to 6300lux. Just like it was with nothing but silver shiny bubble wrap insulation. Fried almost everything!
And see the 2 babies, did NOT stretch, its growing now. Did not before the Orca.
Now, mostly blacked out, this is what has happened right before my very eyes dude!

Tasty Buds · Mar 23, 2021

I can try to help, but not much I can do if you don't wanna hear it.
Ex, ever heard of grow tents nothing will grow in?
Do you know why?

Thetinman · Mar 23, 2021

Seeing is believing. There is not enough known about CMH to under WHY the reflection is so damn intense? Physics cannot keep up as it is. Can light bend? Not quite yet, but they get closer every day.
Now for instance, If I was an engineer (I am in the world of understanding controlled water Physics) not an engineer, but the information I understand is simply not known. I am a field man. Engineers have used my references into understanding a whole new Hydrolics Theory. It took 2 pros to figure it out, which they eventually did.
And I am exactly right there.
But will I ever be able to show the world about it. NO.
Because THAT FIELD HAS NEVER BEEN UPDATED SINCE THE US NAVY has been in service. 200 years people.
So there is solid science out there that have little chance to go against conventional wisdom...
T

Thetinman · Mar 23, 2021

That is what I am trying to find out... like I have said before, there is an answer to a "perfect grow" with out all the hassles of a serious learning curve for anyone starting. Too much information.
So what I am trying to show, is if you are starting with a tent, with a 315, just using water. They need to have the best start. If they simply can grow all the way, with one light, let's show then the BASE.
So what I am jumping about, is zero reflection within tent, it's not a big deal right? Not that expensive to try, just hang black plastic tacked to the walls.
The same with my room, plasticating black all through out my room. I believe there is something there...
T

HALP! CMH lights- what is going on?

HALP! CMH lights- what is going on?

Thetinman

Tasty Buds

Thetinman

Tasty Buds

Thetinman

Tasty Buds

Frankster

Never trust a doctor who's plants have died.

Attachments

Frankster

Never trust a doctor who's plants have died.

Diverse photoreceptors and light responses in plants - Journal of Plant Research

Tasty Buds

Thetinman

Thetinman

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Aqua Man

Thetinman

Thetinman

Madmax

Tasty Buds

Thetinman

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Tasty Buds

Thetinman

Thetinman

HALP! CMH lights- what is going on?

HALP! CMH lights- what is going on?

Thetinman

Tasty Buds

Thetinman

Tasty Buds

Thetinman

Tasty Buds

Frankster

Never trust a doctor who's plants have died.

Attachments

Frankster

Never trust a doctor who's plants have died.

Diverse photoreceptors and light responses in plants - Journal of Plant Research

Tasty Buds

Thetinman

Thetinman

Attachments

Aqua Man

Thetinman

Thetinman

Madmax

Tasty Buds

Thetinman

Attachments

Tasty Buds

Thetinman

Thetinman

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