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S

slightlystoned

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I am thinking about using coco on my next run. does it have to be a dtw(30% runoff?) or can i hand water? I have a grow tent, but limited height(6'4" tall) and don't think that I could fit a table in there, or i would have to build a very very short table to be able to fit. any suggestions?
 
S

Snow Crash

I am thinking about using coco on my next run. does it have to be a dtw(30% runoff?) or can i hand water? I have a grow tent, but limited height(6'4" tall) and don't think that I could fit a table in there, or i would have to build a very very short table to be able to fit. any suggestions?

I hand feed and DTW using drain trays and a syphon. I have a 5x5x6.5 tent (about the same height as yours) and I don't have any issues. What I did is use two picnic tables from KMart, I cut the legs down maybe 2 inches for posterity, and height hasn't been an issue.

Sometimes people need the maximum harvest from their vertical space. Another option for coco growers are these:

You can DIY one yourself.

Basically its two buckets, the top one has holes in the bottom to drain into the bottom bucket. The bottom bucket has a drain hose connected to it. The drain hoses all connect together. If you put all the buckets on cinder blocks or something you can drain into an inexpensive reservoir. It can even be used for the intended purpose some day using hydroton as an E&F system.

What I will wind up saying time and again is this:

YOU can do anything you would like to do with your own grow. There is definitely more than one way to grow.

The versatility of Cannabis is demonstrated in the wide variety of nutrient ratios that work effectively, better than nature in most cases.

Combine this with the versatility of coco and the number of variables and advice to give becomes too immense to really try and wrap it all up in a pretty little package.

For people who are just getting into coco heres what I will also suggest time and again:

1. Start your seeds directly in the coco, keep it moist until they sprout then treat it like soil until the root system is established and requires daily feedings.

2. Transplant to 2 gallons (more or less) of coco amended with at least a little perlite. Fabric planters help keep the coco where you want it.

3. Always saturate the media to the point of runoff. In the absence of an EC meter to test the runoff always use 30% as a minimum.

4. Water when the planter loses 1/2 of its weight. Right after transplanting this might be every 3 days, then every 2 days, then daily. You probably won't need to water more than once per day but you can if you would like.

5. Use Coco specific nutrients. Coco requires different element ratios and to ignore this simple fact is to set yourself up for issues. Until you understand how to amend the coco properly stick with systems that work. Rezipe, CNS 17 Coco/Soil, Canna Coco. All of these are reputable, inexpensive, and effective.

If you'd like to do it your own way then I support your experimental spirit, but if you'd like predictably good results then remove the variables the first time around and just get a feel for the stuff.

Good luck!
 
TrichromeFan

TrichromeFan

I have a grow tent, but limited height(6'4" tall) and don't think that I could fit a table in there, or i would have to build a very very short table to be able to fit. any suggestions?


Use an air conditioning condensate pump. It's just a small pump in a small res with a float valve. You can have trays or a table less than a foot off the ground that way. Just run the hose to the drain, and you're done.


-TF
 
S

slightlystoned

Premium Member
Supporter
Snow Crash - Thanks man, I really appreciate the quick response man. Like i said I am new to the coco, and I really appreciate the advice, I will take every little bit with confidence.

Trichfan - thanks man, I will mos def look into that.

+rep for the great advice guys
 
true grit

true grit

Use an air conditioning condensate pump. It's just a small pump in a small res with a float valve. You can have trays or a table less than a foot off the ground that way. Just run the hose to the drain, and you're done.


-TF


Well with that- yes you can fit a 4x4 table into tent without problems. I've been running a 4x4 table and screen inside a 4.5x4.5 tent (on cinder blocks) with a smart pot tray liner as a bed. I do not water drip to waste, just as needed by hand in the smart pot (10-20g a week). You can use a 200g smart pot or their newer 4x4 tray liners ($30). Plan on dumping about 4-5 bags of coco in the pot and it can be recycled after each flush. If you don't DTW, you MUST use Drip Clean to avoid salt build ups. Look up 'Smart Beds w/ Obs'.

With coco, I doubt I'd go any way other than beds from here on out, but beds work best with mono-crops. Height/root space never seem to be as much an issue, as making faster plants wait for a good flush of the whole medium. Throw a screen on top if height will be a problem.
 
jyip

jyip

hey snowc and truegrit
thx get replys
i went with 2 bags of foxfarm ocean forest and 2 bags of miracle grow w/3 month release of ferts, thru some mycorzea ( spell?) into 4 gal buckets

snow
i ilike the cubcool soil mix

truegrit
the 4x4 setup sounds less involved 2 run , by coco, do u mean the pebbles, or the coir? i have all the pebbles now cuz i used to run them w/canna hydro nutes ..aqua a & b, rhitzo, cannazym, pk13 14
the smart pot just contains the medium used ? those are the mesh type pots right?

thx 2 both

i'll post a harvest pic in a while like 7-9 weeksish
 
S

Snow Crash

hey snowc and truegrit
thx get replys
i went with 2 bags of foxfarm ocean forest and 2 bags of miracle grow w/3 month release of ferts, thru some mycorzea ( spell?) into 4 gal buckets

snow
i ilike the cubcool soil mix

truegrit
the 4x4 setup sounds less involved 2 run , by coco, do u mean the pebbles, or the coir? i have all the pebbles now cuz i used to run them w/canna hydro nutes ..aqua a & b, rhitzo, cannazym, pk13 14
the smart pot just contains the medium used ? those are the mesh type pots right?

thx 2 both

i'll post a harvest pic in a while like 7-9 weeksish

Um...

Not be be a dick, but I'd really rather you didn't. This thread is not a grow journal or a place for grow updates. If you'd like to start a journal in the Organic soil section then I'd welcome that.

It is just... You're not growing in coco...

So to update a Coco thread with a Soil grow would be more than just a little unwarranted and misplaced. Not sure why you'd get all this advice and then go and purchase Fox Farms Ocean Forest and Miracle Grow. I wish you luck but I have literally no input to add to your grow.

Best of luck. You will be best served getting advice from other soil growers.
 
jyip

jyip

relax there my friend, in one post you offer advice and in the next you don't....

kinda like how I changed my mind after reading some feedback on coco coir and went with the FFOF instead

so happy coco-only farming here n I'll spare you any updates

04-29-2011, 11:37 PM #1 (permalink)
Snow Crash
Junior Farmer





Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Oregon
Posts: 13

Snow Crash's Gallery Have a question Coco-naut? Ask the Cocommunity!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The concept of this thread is to provide an organized location for questions related to Coco Coir and Fiber specific growing to be asked and/or researched.

If you are new to coco, or you have some experience but are looking for that extra edge, please feel free to tap myself as a resource. I am happy to help out as much as I can.

If you are interested in my credentials:
I have been growing in Coco for a little over 2 years now and have maybe 8 harvests under my belt in this media. It definitely took me a good deal of time to find the method that worked best for me. Coming from outdoor organics I had a difficult time managing the differences at first - like many other growers do - because in many ways the two medias are similar. The nutritional differences are a major undertaking to comprehend and I hope my experience in this regard will help others in similar situations.


Um...

Not be be a dick, but I'd really rather you didn't.
 
2

2DogWalker

Snow,

Whats up glad to see this thread on the farm. Have found some other great coco information, elsewhere but hey this is where I hang out, this is where I want it to be.... So thank you!

I have just built a little DIY Flood table Approx (30x48") used washing machine trays and siliconed together (set up with a 3" shower drain) - probably have about 40.00 into it, but the 2x4 flood tray wouldn't fit 2 5 gal smart pots next to eachother, so I made my own.....

I have 6 Aurora Indicas That I started in 1 gal pots with Roots CoCoFiber and have transplanted into 6 5gal smart pots with Roots CocoFiber.

I began the experiment using roots buddha grow and the rest of their organic line (which I still use in Soil Mix), but upon other advise I wanted to simplify as my plants have been looking much less than spectacular; So i went with botanicare CNS 17, which i am stoked to hear you have experience with. At first they were very yellowed after transplant and looked a little lumen shocked going under the 600 from the 250 MH, but I got SOME of the green back in them now, but I just don't have them standing up beggin for light still (and I want/need to flip soon, but would love to have a little better health prior to doing so)....

Late last night I checked run off ec compared to input EC and I was not in the ball park input 1.3 out 2.15 (This is my FIRST run in coco EVER)...and I have hard water (very hard) and I don't want to buy an RO yet to be honest, hopin i can get through this grow then buy a merlin and pressure boost pump....So today i am going to feed with a really low dose of CNS 17 "transition mix" and see if I can't get the runoff EC back to within 10% of input EC... I just wanted to get your opinion on whether I can make this work without RO for now(its a small handwatered run - 6 plants, 600 watts, 15 s.F.)? And any other advise you can devise from what I have provided. If anyone would like to see pics of my set up lemme know. Thanks again Snow!

Much Respect
2DogWalker
 
J

jacobgriis02

Snow,

Whats up glad to see this thread on the farm. Have found some other great coco information, elsewhere but hey this is where I hang out, this is where I want it to be.... So thank you!

I have just built a little DIY Flood table Approx (30x48") used washing machine trays and siliconed together (set up with a 3" shower drain) - probably have about 40.00 into it, but the 2x4 flood tray wouldn't fit 2 5 gal smart pots next to eachother, so I made my own.....

I have 6 Aurora Indicas That I started in 1 gal pots with Roots CoCoFiber and have transplanted into 6 5gal smart pots with Roots CocoFiber.

I began the experiment using roots buddha grow and the rest of their organic line (which I still use in Soil Mix), but upon other advise I wanted to simplify as my plants have been looking much less than spectacular; So i went with botanicare CNS 17, which i am stoked to hear you have experience with. At first they were very yellowed after transplant and looked a little lumen shocked going under the 600 from the 250 MH, but I got SOME of the green back in them now, but I just don't have them standing up beggin for light still (and I want/need to flip soon, but would love to have a little better health prior to doing so)....

Late last night I checked run off ec compared to input EC and I was not in the ball park input 1.3 out 2.15 (This is my FIRST run in coco EVER)...and I have hard water (very hard) and I don't want to buy an RO yet to be honest, hopin i can get through this grow then buy a merlin and pressure boost pump....So today i am going to feed with a really low dose of CNS 17 "transition mix" and see if I can't get the runoff EC back to within 10% of input EC... I just wanted to get your opinion on whether I can make this work without RO for now(its a small handwatered run - 6 plants, 600 watts, 15 s.F.)? And any other advise you can devise from what I have provided. If anyone would like to see pics of my set up lemme know. Thanks again Snow!

Much Respect
2DogWalker
hey man I looked into the washing machine trays too but thought the edges were too low for my comfort... and ended up going with this - underbed storage boxes! plus they were $25 compared to $30 for a washer tray? Something like that. dimensions are roughly: 41" long x 20" wide x 7" high

Maybe you could have used rows of 1 in the 20" width instead of NOT being able to get 2 rows in the 30" width you had? It might saved space since you had to use rows of 1 in each pan eh? I wouldn;t know, these are 9x9 pots so they work perfect for the 20" width of these under bed boxes. Worth looking into for DIY tables. Next step, rigging up drainage!
 
S

Snow Crash

Snow,

Whats up glad to see this thread on the farm. Have found some other great coco information, elsewhere but hey this is where I hang out, this is where I want it to be.... So thank you!

I have just built a little DIY Flood table Approx (30x48") used washing machine trays and siliconed together (set up with a 3" shower drain) - probably have about 40.00 into it, but the 2x4 flood tray wouldn't fit 2 5 gal smart pots next to eachother, so I made my own.....

I have 6 Aurora Indicas That I started in 1 gal pots with Roots CoCoFiber and have transplanted into 6 5gal smart pots with Roots CocoFiber.

I began the experiment using roots buddha grow and the rest of their organic line (which I still use in Soil Mix), but upon other advise I wanted to simplify as my plants have been looking much less than spectacular; So i went with botanicare CNS 17, which i am stoked to hear you have experience with. At first they were very yellowed after transplant and looked a little lumen shocked going under the 600 from the 250 MH, but I got SOME of the green back in them now, but I just don't have them standing up beggin for light still (and I want/need to flip soon, but would love to have a little better health prior to doing so)....

Late last night I checked run off ec compared to input EC and I was not in the ball park input 1.3 out 2.15 (This is my FIRST run in coco EVER)...and I have hard water (very hard) and I don't want to buy an RO yet to be honest, hopin i can get through this grow then buy a merlin and pressure boost pump....So today i am going to feed with a really low dose of CNS 17 "transition mix" and see if I can't get the runoff EC back to within 10% of input EC... I just wanted to get your opinion on whether I can make this work without RO for now(its a small handwatered run - 6 plants, 600 watts, 15 s.F.)? And any other advise you can devise from what I have provided. If anyone would like to see pics of my set up lemme know. Thanks again Snow!

Much Respect
2DogWalker

Here's some random thoughts in no particular order:

Glad to see someone else using CNS 17 Coco/Soil. I've been to half a dozen shops in my area and not a single one of them carries the Coco/Soil formula. They do have the Hydro one, but not much of it. When I ask about it they all say it's because they "sell so little of it" and I'm like... yeah, because you don't have any.

I think it's because the markup on it is so minimal. A quart of the stuff can be found online (before shipping) for about $9. Gallons for $20. It's just such an inexpensive and simple system that is so perfectly dialed for cannabis in coco I can't understand why more people haven't at least given it a shot.

In your particular situation, with the hard water, you'd actually be better off with the Hydro formula as it contains less Calcium. The Coco needs a good deal of Ca for a while but later on during flowering this can become an issue.

The ability to test your EC will allow you to compensate though. In addition, if a RO system is a little out of your range at the moment (CNS 17 is recommended to be run with RO filtered, or very clean, water) a simple brita faucet filter might be the difference maker here.

Ultimately, the high levels of Calcium in your system will create a cation issue for you to watch for.

My tap water starting EC is between 0.08 and 0.12 (measured as 80 uS/cm to 120 uS/cm), and this should be considered very clean tap water. If your own tap water starts higher than 0.5ec then you are definitely going to have an issue in coco. I actually am a firm believer in clean, pure, untreated water. Do some research into what is in municipal tap water systems that use recycled waste systems (most cities with pop. >20,000 south of Sacramento/Denver/DC).

If your water is over 0.25ec to start my suggestion is to take a look at your water report to see where it's all coming from. Could be a lot of sodium in there and/or bicarbonates which will force competition for uptake with other elements and could cause precipitation of salts down the road.

To combat the Calcium you're going to need to use a touch extra Potassium and Magnesium. Dyna-Gro Pro-Tekt would be a good choice to balance your pH with as a pH up replacement as well as provide potassium and silicon for the cation balance. An extra 0.05ec (50uS/cm) of Epsom Salt would be a good addition, but Flora Nectar, Sweet, or Bud Candy might be acceptable Magnesium supplements as well. I've tried Humboldt Nutrients SeaMag and Organicare Huvega with no success, steer clear of those. GH Liquid KoolBloom 0-10-10 has a little extra Mag in it also, so that would be a cheap bloom supplement because you'd only need 1-3ml at most per gallon to balance the system out.

As always, watch your EC!

When you start adding new stuff that doesn't mean you begin using a higher EC. Use less of other stuff so you can begin supplementing the system slightly.

I think I said it above, but IMO 5 gallons of coco is WAY too much coco for an indoor grow unless you're growing a massive tree with a couple kw of lighting. Coco manages to support much larger plants gallon for gallon compared to soil, and in this regard is VERY different than standard organics. More bang for your buck with coco (even when amended organically) when it comes to space.

2 gallons of coco is a perfect amount to grow what I consider to be small/medium sized indoor plants. Here's a picture of my own garden I took yesterday. These plants are in ~2 gallons of coco in 3 gallon SmartPots.
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So, you can see you don't need a lot of coco for big nugs.

There are many problems I saw when using high volumes of coco fiber in large containers. Compaction, even saturation, and reduced aeration were only the beginning. The big problem I saw was the result of feeding the entire 5 gallons of media when there was only 1 gallons worth of roots. Think of coco of containing a "piggy bank" of elements. A 5 gallon Piggy Bank holds more than a 2 gallon piggy bank, it's kinda simple, but for whatever reason it just didn't click for me until it was too late.

As you feed all that rootless coco it adds more and more elements. They aren't used, they just keep building up in the spongy coco, especially if the runoff levels aren't very high.

When the roots finally do stretch out into these areas they hit super saturated pockets and as a result the plant starts acting really funked. Then you're stuck running copious amounts of clean water through the coco to try and balance it back out and rather than taking off the plant has to sit water logged for a few days. The net loss is like a weeks worth of growth... Sucks...

At this point I think you just gotta work with what you got and try to keep them happy. Focus 100% of your energy on the root zone and the media, don't even try to play the reactive game of reading the plant.

:anim_09:

Focus on what you can control, ensure the environment is dialed temp/RH wise, the ventilation and air circulation is sufficient to bring in fresh air, and that the solution you are using is of an appropriate EC and pH. Then you just gotta put yourself in your "Roots' Shoes" so to speak. Try to imagine what it'd be like to be buried in the center of the media, and when to water, and to keep that runoff EC within reason.

If you can do these 5 or 6 pretty essential things the plants will respond slowly at first but exponentially as the root system rebounds. This will push healthy growth up top (the biomass you CAN see) and this then helps push healthy growth down below (the biomass you CANNOT see). When the two systems are working together then you're really growing :harvest:

If you cannot get the hard water thing worked out with the CNS 17... You are going to have problems no matter what you do. Dial what you can dial and make sure you address the Calcium/Cation issue you'll have running those nutrients with hard water.

Good luck!
 
mittenmedgrow

mittenmedgrow

Good info snow. I have been running coco for a couple yrs now and have adopted similar practices.
 
J

jacobgriis02

Hew snow very nice nugs thats some good stuff... quick question, if you see at the end of page 3 on your thread I posted my table/pots configuration... I am trying to flower from basically straight clones (Prob veg under t5s for 1.5 or 2 weeks) but do you think that dense of a pot configuration is too close for clones that are rooted for that long?

I ask because I come from soil... and am not too sure if this "explosive growth" I am supposed to expect from coco will overgrow those pots before i know it and maybe I should shoot for 8 under a light instead of 16 like I plan to do? Thoughts? With active pruning could I still accomplish a SOG type grow with that density of pots??? Thanks for your input. I dont plan on running anythign that stretches too crazy either btw.
 
true grit

true grit

truegrit
the 4x4 setup sounds less involved 2 run , by coco, do u mean the pebbles, or the coir? i have all the pebbles now cuz i used to run them w/canna hydro nutes ..aqua a & b, rhitzo, cannazym, pk13 14
the smart pot just contains the medium used ? those are the mesh type pots right?

thx 2 both

i'll post a harvest pic in a while like 7-9 weeksish

Hey there, I'm actually referring to coco coir. I know Obs tried the croutons and think he went with coir instead. Either way yes, the smart pot (200g fits 4x4 or they have a 4x4 tray liner) sits inside the 4x4 tray and holds around 5 bags of coco coir. If using the 200g smart pot, you'll need to trim down the sides to about 9-10" like standard smart pots. Check Obsoleet's Coco Beds thread in this forum, or his photo post in photography forum. Plenty of info on beds/ideas etc. Again, I doubt I'll run any other way with coco.

Hew snow very nice nugs thats some good stuff... quick question, if you see at the end of page 3 on your thread I posted my table/pots configuration... I am trying to flower from basically straight clones (Prob veg under t5s for 1.5 or 2 weeks) but do you think that dense of a pot configuration is too close for clones that are rooted for that long?

I ask because I come from soil... and am not too sure if this "explosive growth" I am supposed to expect from coco will overgrow those pots before i know it and maybe I should shoot for 8 under a light instead of 16 like I plan to do? Thoughts? With active pruning could I still accomplish a SOG type grow with that density of pots??? Thanks for your input. I dont plan on running anythign that stretches too crazy either btw.

I do both, and its more about knowing your strains. If you know how large to veg a plant and final stretch growth, then plan on the same. Just plan on more vigorous growth to get to that point.


Snow- Lots of good info bro, have you done any grows other than the 1k or so you are doing now? What kinda of yield are you getting per plant? How big they gettin?

IMO, a lot of what you are saying is general coco direction, but not all is necessary or applicable to many coco growers. Honestly I think coco is pretty fail proof, and with very LITTLE effort can produce phenomenal results. If someone can read plants, has a pH meter that is accurate, and a decent means to avoid salt concentration- thats about all you need. Not much more than a base nutrient and maybe a little cal. And of course less is more in coco, make everything readily available for uptake and let the plant work its magic. Like you said most important is having a dialed consistent environment. Oh and not over saturating, which is more trial/error/learning of your plants. I think once folks get a coco run under their belt to adapt to the medium, they can see the ease of maintenance.

Ive gone the route of monitoring everything, gone the route of monitoring nothing....feeding a lot, feeding a little...doing additives, not doing additives, etc... and let me say this- My product continually improves and my processes continually decrease. Just some food for thought.
 
Aligee

Aligee

Hey there, I'm actually referring to coco coir. I know Obs tried the croutons and think he went with coir instead. Either way yes, the smart pot (200g fits 4x4 or they have a 4x4 tray liner) sits inside the 4x4 tray and holds around 5 bags of coco coir. If using the 200g smart pot, you'll need to trim down the sides to about 9-10" like standard smart pots. Check Obsoleet's Coco Beds thread in this forum, or his photo post in photography forum. Plenty of info on beds/ideas etc. Again, I doubt I'll run any other way with coco.



I do both, and its more about knowing your strains. If you know how large to veg a plant and final stretch growth, then plan on the same. Just plan on more vigorous growth to get to that point.


Snow- Lots of good info bro, have you done any grows other than the 1k or so you are doing now? What kinda of yield are you getting per plant? How big they gettin?

IMO, a lot of what you are saying is general coco direction, but not all is necessary or applicable to many coco growers. Honestly I think coco is pretty fail proof, and with very LITTLE effort can produce phenomenal results. If someone can read plants, has a pH meter that is accurate, and a decent means to avoid salt concentration- thats about all you need. Not much more than a base nutrient and maybe a little cal. And of course less is more in coco, make everything readily available for uptake and let the plant work its magic. Like you said most important is having a dialed consistent environment. Oh and not over saturating, which is more trial/error/learning of your plants. I think once folks get a coco run under their belt to adapt to the medium, they can see the ease of maintenance.

Ive gone the route of monitoring everything, gone the route of monitoring nothing....feeding a lot, feeding a little...doing additives, not doing additives, etc... and let me say this- My product continually improves and my processes continually decrease. Just some food for thought.

Couldnt agree more well put TrueG !!!
 
S

Snow Crash

Hew snow very nice nugs thats some good stuff... quick question, if you see at the end of page 3 on your thread I posted my table/pots configuration... I am trying to flower from basically straight clones (Prob veg under t5s for 1.5 or 2 weeks) but do you think that dense of a pot configuration is too close for clones that are rooted for that long?

I ask because I come from soil... and am not too sure if this "explosive growth" I am supposed to expect from coco will overgrow those pots before i know it and maybe I should shoot for 8 under a light instead of 16 like I plan to do? Thoughts? With active pruning could I still accomplish a SOG type grow with that density of pots??? Thanks for your input. I dont plan on running anythign that stretches too crazy either btw.

You'll be fine. I'm actually doing a similar grow my next time around in 1 gallon planters, clone, root, flower. About 11 weeks start to finish and the plants shouldn't get too large. It all depends on strain and size of the cut to start with, but maybe 1 foot, 18 inches max. As far as "leg room" goes, I like to give each plant at least 6 inches on either side (1 foot total). Some people do less, some do more, it'll just take some finessing as the grow goes to get it right.

Snow- Lots of good info bro, have you done any grows other than the 1k or so you are doing now? What kinda of yield are you getting per plant? How big they gettin?

IMO, a lot of what you are saying is general coco direction, but not all is necessary or applicable to many coco growers. Honestly I think coco is pretty fail proof, and with very LITTLE effort can produce phenomenal results. If someone can read plants, has a pH meter that is accurate, and a decent means to avoid salt concentration- thats about all you need. Not much more than a base nutrient and maybe a little cal. And of course less is more in coco, make everything readily available for uptake and let the plant work its magic. Like you said most important is having a dialed consistent environment. Oh and not over saturating, which is more trial/error/learning of your plants. I think once folks get a coco run under their belt to adapt to the medium, they can see the ease of maintenance.

Ive gone the route of monitoring everything, gone the route of monitoring nothing....feeding a lot, feeding a little...doing additives, not doing additives, etc... and let me say this- My product continually improves and my processes continually decrease. Just some food for thought.

In the OP I list some of my previous experiences in coco. I've been growing in it for about 2 years now, and have 6 harvests under my belt in it. Earlier on I had a lot of trouble with coco. I began in a smaller tent using a 400w system. Then I upgraded to a full bedroom with the 1000w, added some AC, then a 5x5 tent. I think I pulled around .35 to .4 gpw the first few times. My last harvest was just under 1lbs on the 1000w, so about .45 gpw.

Truth be told, I really have just figured this stuff out, especially when it comes to flowering.

This grow I'm using a Horizontal 1000w HPS and a Vertical 400w MH. I had to pull a plant that decided to throw nanners yesterday (unstable bagseed genetics) and even 10-12 days early she's a good 3oz. There are 8 other plants in the tent. 2 of them are much smaller monster-cropped clones from the earlier grow and will be maybe 1.5 oz each. Two other plants are more medium sized, but still with a good deal of nuggage, maybe 5 oz between the two of them. Then the last 4 plants are monsters, each pulling in at least a QP. So I'm thinking anywhere from 24 oz to 30oz on this one.

Which is somewhere in the neighborhood of .5 to .6 gpw.

I know I can do a little better, be a little more efficient, and that's all part of the growing process. The addition of a vertical MH bulb has been great but I cannot wait to switch it up in there and run the 1000w vert.

My next grow I'll be using just the 1000w HPS vertically and I'll be running a SOG Coliseum in the 5x5 tent using 1 gallon grow bags and Sensi Star clones. I'll probably do somewhere around 20 to 25 plants, cloned, rooted, flowered, and I'm expecting about 25g to 30g per plant.

This should top me out around .7gpw without CO2 support. I would be able to do better with a strain that could push more like 40 grams per plant but this sensi star is CHRONIC! I do have some Wappa and (Cole Train x Lemon Skunk) mothers I could toss a few clones in there and bring the numbers up a smidgen.

Then the grow after that I'll add some CO2 and change things up a little more... maybe start using a 600w HPS and 600w MH in cooltubes rather than a naked 1000w HPS... I think these additions or changes to the room is how I'm going to start hitting 1.0gpw and up, pulling 3-4lbs on a single harvest in a 5x5 tent with just 1200w of power.

I also have to agree that coco is just so versatile, and cannabis as well, that there are many methods of growing that work very well. I absolutely love the stuff. Fool-Proof is exactly right and it's the reason I always suggest coco growing to my friends and any other grower looking to try something new.
 
2

2DogWalker

Thanks bro!

Here's some random thoughts in no particular order:

Glad to see someone else using CNS 17 Coco/Soil. I've been to half a dozen shops in my area and not a single one of them carries the Coco/Soil formula. They do have the Hydro one, but not much of it. When I ask about it they all say it's because they "sell so little of it" and I'm like... yeah, because you don't have any.

I think it's because the markup on it is so minimal. A quart of the stuff can be found online (before shipping) for about $9. Gallons for $20. It's just such an inexpensive and simple system that is so perfectly dialed for cannabis in coco I can't understand why more people haven't at least given it a shot.

In your particular situation, with the hard water, you'd actually be better off with the Hydro formula as it contains less Calcium. The Coco needs a good deal of Ca for a while but later on during flowering this can become an issue.

The ability to test your EC will allow you to compensate though. In addition, if a RO system is a little out of your range at the moment (CNS 17 is recommended to be run with RO filtered, or very clean, water) a simple brita faucet filter might be the difference maker here.

Ultimately, the high levels of Calcium in your system will create a cation issue for you to watch for.

My tap water starting EC is between 0.08 and 0.12 (measured as 80 uS/cm to 120 uS/cm), and this should be considered very clean tap water. If your own tap water starts higher than 0.5ec then you are definitely going to have an issue in coco. I actually am a firm believer in clean, pure, untreated water. Do some research into what is in municipal tap water systems that use recycled waste systems (most cities with pop. >20,000 south of Sacramento/Denver/DC).

If your water is over 0.25ec to start my suggestion is to take a look at your water report to see where it's all coming from. Could be a lot of sodium in there and/or bicarbonates which will force competition for uptake with other elements and could cause precipitation of salts down the road.

To combat the Calcium you're going to need to use a touch extra Potassium and Magnesium. Dyna-Gro Pro-Tekt would be a good choice to balance your pH with as a pH up replacement as well as provide potassium and silicon for the cation balance. An extra 0.05ec (50uS/cm) of Epsom Salt would be a good addition, but Flora Nectar, Sweet, or Bud Candy might be acceptable Magnesium supplements as well. I've tried Humboldt Nutrients SeaMag and Organicare Huvega with no success, steer clear of those. GH Liquid KoolBloom 0-10-10 has a little extra Mag in it also, so that would be a cheap bloom supplement because you'd only need 1-3ml at most per gallon to balance the system out.

As always, watch your EC!

When you start adding new stuff that doesn't mean you begin using a higher EC. Use less of other stuff so you can begin supplementing the system slightly.

I think I said it above, but IMO 5 gallons of coco is WAY too much coco for an indoor grow unless you're growing a massive tree with a couple kw of lighting. Coco manages to support much larger plants gallon for gallon compared to soil, and in this regard is VERY different than standard organics. More bang for your buck with coco (even when amended organically) when it comes to space.

2 gallons of coco is a perfect amount to grow what I consider to be small/medium sized indoor plants. Here's a picture of my own garden I took yesterday. These plants are in ~2 gallons of coco in 3 gallon SmartPots.
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So, you can see you don't need a lot of coco for big nugs.

There are many problems I saw when using high volumes of coco fiber in large containers. Compaction, even saturation, and reduced aeration were only the beginning. The big problem I saw was the result of feeding the entire 5 gallons of media when there was only 1 gallons worth of roots. Think of coco of containing a "piggy bank" of elements. A 5 gallon Piggy Bank holds more than a 2 gallon piggy bank, it's kinda simple, but for whatever reason it just didn't click for me until it was too late.

As you feed all that rootless coco it adds more and more elements. They aren't used, they just keep building up in the spongy coco, especially if the runoff levels aren't very high.

When the roots finally do stretch out into these areas they hit super saturated pockets and as a result the plant starts acting really funked. Then you're stuck running copious amounts of clean water through the coco to try and balance it back out and rather than taking off the plant has to sit water logged for a few days. The net loss is like a weeks worth of growth... Sucks...

At this point I think you just gotta work with what you got and try to keep them happy. Focus 100% of your energy on the root zone and the media, don't even try to play the reactive game of reading the plant.

:anim_09:

Focus on what you can control, ensure the environment is dialed temp/RH wise, the ventilation and air circulation is sufficient to bring in fresh air, and that the solution you are using is of an appropriate EC and pH. Then you just gotta put yourself in your "Roots' Shoes" so to speak. Try to imagine what it'd be like to be buried in the center of the media, and when to water, and to keep that runoff EC within reason.

If you can do these 5 or 6 pretty essential things the plants will respond slowly at first but exponentially as the root system rebounds. This will push healthy growth up top (the biomass you CAN see) and this then helps push healthy growth down below (the biomass you CANNOT see). When the two systems are working together then you're really growing :harvest:

If you cannot get the hard water thing worked out with the CNS 17... You are going to have problems no matter what you do. Dial what you can dial and make sure you address the Calcium/Cation issue you'll have running those nutrients with hard water.

Good luck!

Thanks much bro, I think I may have a few options here if I can not get my hard water to work. It is well water and I haven't had a lot of micro defeciencies in my pro mix or soil grows, so hopefully with a little time and thinkin it all through I will get it figured out.

I figured if nothing else I could try the water from my dehumidifier as I have enough to keep this batch of plants watered quite easily. Or just go get RO water from my work and bring it back here, would be rough on my shoulders but almost free.....

I agree on the size of the containers, but ay we live and we learn.....Thanks much for your detailed and quick response bro much appreciated..

I will keep you informed as I go further.

Jacobs: I got them for 12.00 Each and two bags will fit in rows of 2 in one tray, just made the tray longer by cutting it and gluing 2 of them together....Total size approx 30" x 48" after fabrication... I hand water so I guess if the tray isn't high enough I would have to be at fault......I think they will work great for me, but I am glad you found a way to work for you too....

Respect 2Dog
 
jyip

jyip

maxxing ur yield

TRUEg,

thx 4 the feedback once again...i realized u meant coco coir after i had posted my reply earlier
the coco sounds great to grow in, i am not sure if i will try it as i am quite successful w/the hydroton /canna aqua nutes and agree that you need to know the strain to really maximize your yields & quality
best 2 ya w/ur growin!

again the coco sounds easy and foolproof, but i am comfortable w/the pebbles for now

pic 1 is a white widow with two weeks left to harvest
pic 2 is my 4 x 4 ft ebb n flo tray under a single 1K HPS bulb on a 40 gal resivior of canna aqua nutes and hydroton for the growing medium
pic 3 is a close up of white widow bud after harvest

almost 750 grams off a single 1 K hps, with hopes of getting 1000 next time when i run a single strain instead of the nine strains and 23 plants in this tray here

snow,
best to ya w/bumping your harvest up a few notches,,, that will be a HUGE increase 4 u from the 1/2 g per watt to 3-4 lbs off 1200 watts isn't it? good luck there with it bud....
My next grow I'll be using just the 1000w HPS vertically and I'll be running a SOG Coliseum in the 5x5 tent using 1 gallon grow bags and Sensi Star clones. I'll probably do somewhere around 20 to 25 plants, cloned, rooted, flowered, and I'm expecting about 25g to 30g per plant.

This should top me out around .7gpw without CO2 support. I would be able to do better with a strain that could push more like 40 grams per plant but this sensi star is CHRONIC! I do have some Wappa and (Cole Train x Lemon Skunk) mothers I could toss a few clones in there and bring the numbers up a smidgen.

Then the grow after that I'll add some CO2 and change things up a little more... maybe start using a 600w HPS and 600w MH in cooltubes rather than a naked 1000w HPS... I think these additions or changes to the room is how I'm going to start hitting 1.0gpw and up, pulling 3-4lbs on a single harvest in a 5x5 tent with just 1200w of power.
 
S

Snow Crash

Um...

...This thread is not a grow journal or a place for grow updates...

... You're not growing in coco...

So to update a Coco thread with a [NON-COCO] grow would be more than just a little unwarranted and misplaced.

TRUEg,
thx 4 the feedback once again...i realized u meant coco coir after i had posted my reply earlier
the coco sounds great to grow in, i am not sure if i will try it as i am quite successful w/the hydroton /canna aqua nutes and agree that you need to know the strain to really maximize your yields & quality
best 2 ya w/ur growin!

again the coco sounds easy and foolproof, but i am comfortable w/the pebbles for now

pic 1 is a white widow with two weeks left to harvest
pic 2 is my 4 x 4 ft ebb n flo tray under a single 1K HPS bulb on a 40 gal resivior of canna aqua nutes and hydroton for the growing medium
pic 3 is a close up of white widow bud after harvest

almost 750 grams off a single 1 K hps, with hopes of getting 1000 next time when i run a single strain instead of the nine strains and 23 plants in this tray here

snow,
best to ya w/bumping your harvest up a few notches,,, that will be a HUGE increase 4 u from the 1/2 g per watt to 3-4 lbs off 1200 watts isn't it? good luck there with it bud....

Really?? You're going to hijack this thread? I asked politely that we keep the conversation on topic with coco.

We all appreciate you're too cool for Coco school. Your plants look like they have big flowers and lots of branches. I guess thats what a few months of vegetative time will get you.

But why are you here doing what I've specifically asked you not to do? Is it just for attention?
 
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