help me with this deficiency

[oskiwosky]

is this a calcium deficiency?

 

[ReDLuBE]

this might help

 

[Seamaiden]

Could be a deficiency, could be a toxicity, but it's not just calcium. I'd like to see the whole plant and know more before I really offer anything up, but right now I'd have to say Ca + Mg issue.

 

[oskiwosky]

The plants are fed RO water but my filters are aged and water gives me an initial ppm of about 175ppm. I'm not certain whether or not my filters are removing ca or mg from 175ppm RO water so I add cal-mag at about hal strength for safety reasons. The affected areas are the newest growth not the older fan leaves. Older leaves seem fine. I do have some red stems as well. I will post more pics when I arrive. thanks seamaiden

 

[mrbong73]

So what is your growing medium and how/what are you feeding them?

Calcium deficency does show up in new growth first because it is not very mobile in plants.
Calcium, magnesium and potassium all have to be in balance for healthy plants.

 

[oskiwosky]

I'm feeding them about 650-700ppm of nutriplus a&b and 5ml/g of cal-mag. I do foliar spray a kelp product every now and again for K.
My ph is 6.0 and still have red stems. Should I drop my pH more?

 

[oskiwosky]

I am in 60/40 coco/perlite. Drain to waste top feed 5g buckets

 

[mrbong73]

I think that's most of the pertinent info.
Overall pics of the plant would help too.
You could try top dressing some ewc which will help improve the CEC. Some nutrients are leached out quicker than others.
Hopefully someone that knows coco will arrive.

 

[oskiwosky]

here are more pics!!!

 

[oskiwosky]

sprayed them with co2 from xtreme gardening and fed vermiT. hope they look better tomorrow

 

[Seamaiden]

What the fuck..? I've never seen a Ca/Mg issue present quite like that. But still, that's where I'm landing.

Foliar application of magnesium in the form of MgSO4 (Epsom salt) at the rate of 1/4tsp/gal will tell you rather quickly if the issue is a deficiency or toxicity. Magnesium is definitely an issue, as is calcium. I would try playing with pH a little bit, bring it down to 5.8 for a feed or three, let it drift back up as high as 6.2, go back and forth like that. I see twisting of the leaves that's often associated with feed being at a pH that they just don't like (and I've found they're all different).

Otherwise, those long shots show that the plant is rather overfed, based on how the leaves are curling under.

Remember, as you're measuring ppms, that organic molecules cannot be measured accurately. The ppm scale is derived from EC (electrical conductivity) as measured in microSiemens, and that's only accurate with chemical salts. This is why I always encourage people to learn how to go by feel, not just by the numbers. If we could grow pot just by the numbers then no one would ever have a problem, ever. There's an art to it, just like with many other living things, so it's important to learn what they're telling you, to speak their language.

For instance, I've learned that there's a certain curling under and downward angle that I can now immediately associate with an unfavorable vapor pressure deficit (VPD) and the plant is having issues with transpiration or is trying to conserve its vital juices.

 

[oskiwosky]

What the fuck..? I've never seen a Ca/Mg issue present quite like that. But still, that's where I'm landing.

Foliar application of magnesium in the form of MgSO4 (Epsom salt) at the rate of 1/4tsp/gal will tell you rather quickly if the issue is a deficiency or toxicity. Magnesium is definitely an issue, as is calcium. I would try playing with pH a little bit, bring it down to 5.8 for a feed or three, let it drift back up as high as 6.2, go back and forth like that. I see twisting of the leaves that's often associated with feed being at a pH that they just don't like (and I've found they're all different).

Otherwise, those long shots show that the plant is rather overfed, based on how the leaves are curling under.

Remember, as you're measuring ppms, that organic molecules cannot be measured accurately. The ppm scale is derived from EC (electrical conductivity) as measured in microSiemens, and that's only accurate with chemical salts. This is why I always encourage people to learn how to go by feel, not just by the numbers. If we could grow pot just by the numbers then no one would ever have a problem, ever. There's an art to it, just like with many other living things, so it's important to learn what they're telling you, to speak their language.

For instance, I've learned that there's a certain curling under and downward angle that I can now immediately associate with an unfavorable vapor pressure deficit (VPD) and the plant is having issues with transpiration or is trying to conserve its vital juices.

the vermiT seemed to work well. new growth is looking good but i still want to spray the epsom salt.
my question is, after spraying the epsom salt what signs/symptoms should i look out for?

thanks

 

[Seamaiden]

Greening up, no more progression of the signs that have you concerned now. Those areas won't repair, though the yellowed parts might green back up, but what's gone necrotic is gone.

 

[oskiwosky]

is it okay to cut of leaves with necrotic leaves so i know if whatever it is is progressing?

 

[organicfreak]

Hey friend imho its 1 of 2 things or both..

1. root aphids..
these fuckers notoriusly live in coco that you buy from stores
to get rid of use merit 75. people will experience healthy growth then periods of sudden drop in growth/ diffencies that make no sense cause you know your feeding properly its the root aphids eating the roots and fucking with the plants abilty to eat the food you have in place for it

2. coco is notoriusly dirty/salty..
i struggled for almost a whole yr with coco utill i new how to prep it...

a. I use bale 10-15 $ put in a garbage can or a tote and fill/soak with hose water,and break it up once its soft from the soak
b. I then dump into a 20 gal smart pot (1 bale will fill 1 20 galon smart pot usIally)
c. I flush with hose water .. you will see water go from dirty to clean usually 20-30 mins per 20 gal smart pot.. I like the smart pots cause it allows for water to fastly flow out all directions without any coco loss..
d. I then wash out garbage can and refill with r.o. water adjust ph to 5.8 and then add my homemade coco buffer to 750 ppms and then I add 2.5 ml/gal of myco's
e. I then add the washed coco back into the garbage can and let it soak for 24hrs..

This will give you high quality ready to use coco, with no salt/impurities from the ocean.

I used to flush my coco every week now I DONT FLUSH @ ALL.. I just water untill there 20-30 % runoff evertime I feed...

Also I have a 500$ ph meter one that u place directly into the coco and it was always in the 6.5ish range WHICH IS VERY BAD FOR MJ... so with the flush and the ph adjusted soak my ph is alway 5.8ish

 

[oskiwosky]

ive already treated with bayer tree & shrub once when i transplanted. there shouldnt be any aphids.

 

[organicfreak]

Sweet thats a weaker version of merit 75

So I believe its dirty coco...

If I was you I would buy a bale of coco and follow my prep instructions and transplant them...
This will gaurentee you salt free,clean, buffered,and proper ph'ed coco and now you will see your shit take off... literally days after transplant...

Up to you again I struggled with coco for almost a yr. and now it so fuckin easy...

 

[organicfreak]

or you can spend 30 $ for canna pre-cleaned/treated coco,but i believe it takes 2 to make up 1 bale 60ish versus 20ish

 

[organicfreak]

This is not my strong suit explaining this,but I do understand it..
SO TAKE IT FOR WHAT ITS WORTH...

coco holds onto or releases slowly certain nutrients, like potasium/calcium etc..

The buffer has these nutrients in it to satisfy the NEW COCO..
if you read arround some say that they have better experience with there coco on the second go around with it... THIS IS BECUSE the coco is now satified or buffered...
by soaking the clean coco you satisfy its needs right away so you get optimum growth RIGHT AWAY..

again with this soak if you ph adjust to 5.8 its like rockwell you train the coco to the ph you want it @ and matain it by ph 5.8 your feed water everytime...
FYI if your ph rise to 6.5 or higher or under 5.2 YOU WILL SEE FUCKED UP DEFFICENCY...
I also feed myco,fulvic,humic acids with every feeding
mycos promote root growth
and fulvic/humic act as chealators which help in the uptake of nutrients..
I also add enzymes to keep roots white and eats dead aphids and roots etc..

 

[oskiwosky]

i just added the humic/fulvic and fed some vermiT. i trimmed off the affected leaves to see if the issue progresses. i also have some great white in the mix as well. prior to these issues i thought i had nute burn so i backed off the nutes. this could have contributed to the deficiencies.