Help please...what is this problem??

[whiskeygirl]

Ok.
Pulled my veg plants from my UC last Thursday to try to bring them back to health. Put them into 2 gallon bubble buckets. Did a 24 hour Clearx flush. Friday added DM A & B , plus Zone. Now at 70 ppm total using a Milwaukee TDS meter (.7 conversion I believe). Saturday they showed good signs of recovery. Today I think they slipping again (see pics). Disected one of them to check for bugs...no bugs present. Some roots are brownish color. Dont look great.

Is this nutrient burn??? Root rot??

Completely sealed room
PH is 6.2-6.6 range (6.2 on the healthier plants)
Res temp 72' (I know a little high....cannot lower)
Room temp 75'
Humidity 60%
Very good air circulation
Co2 at 700ppm

Help please!
WG:worried

 

[bluewaves]

ur ph seem high...and ur water themp..bad combo for dwc...

 

[420Gator]

...

 

[QuarterbackMo]

Try moving the air pump out of the room and h202 + flush for about 24 hours and bump your ppm up...

 

[whiskeygirl]

ur ph seem high...and ur water themp..bad combo for dwc...

These leaves looked the same in the UC. My res temp was 66 in there. Ph was 6.0.

 

[bluewaves]

it can be anything then if ur other grow looks like that...more details pls on how u doing things ....then we can help more...

 

[whiskeygirl]

Off the top of your head...what do these pictures tell you. Nutrient deficiencies or nutrient overdose?? It seemed like to flush helped them out. Maybe my tds meter is fucked??

BTW im starting with RO water and my tds pen is saying 0 after going through the filters.

thanks again,
WG

 

[UNVME]

Calcium-Magesium deficiency.

Pick up some Bontanicare Cal-Mag+


The new growth is looking much better.. I would try Cal-Mag @ 2ML/gallon

 

[whiskeygirl]

Try moving the air pump out of the room and h202 + flush for about 24 hours and bump your ppm up...

Thank you.
The air has been outside. What dosage rate do you use for the h202 flush??
WG

 

[whiskeygirl]

Calcium-Magesium deficiency.

Pick up some Bontanicare Cal-Mag+


The new growth is looking much better.. I would try Cal-Mag @ 2ML/gallon

Somewhere I read or was told that you should not need Cal-Mag with DM nutrients??

Anybody??

Thanks

 

[Farmer Jon]

The problem is nutrient lockout. The cause is not washing the Hydroton (clay rocks) well enough. The solution is to flush ph'd r/o water over the top of the Hydroton until the water runs clear. Than, drain the system and add back nutrient solution and folier feed with Magical every other day until the plants return to health.
Hope this helps,
FJ

 

[BudGoggles]

I never used cal-mag with dm nutes and never had any issues

 

[FatFreddysKat]

I also have never had to add cal-mag to my UC, Im running the DM One line though and only other thing i use is Zone...hope they get back to a healthy stage again...wish I could help......I wonder sometimes if all the flushing and different things being thrown out at the ladies to "help" them are really doing just that helping, seems they could at times just be getting overworked and never see the healthy light at the end, and of course others have proven this wrong too!!Just a thought!!!

 

[Seamaiden]

The problem is nutrient lockout. The cause is not washing the Hydroton (clay rocks) well enough. The solution is to flush ph'd r/o water over the top of the Hydroton until the water runs clear. Than, drain the system and add back nutrient solution and folier feed with Magical every other day until the plants return to health.
Hope this helps,
FJ

That's what I was thinking, but never having grown in anything other than aquarium plants in a fully hydro situation I couldn't say for sure. I'm curious also about the pH of the feed/water going in, because, based on my reading only, I thought a hydro situation required a much lower pH range, in the 5.2-5.8, maybe even as low as 5.0, range. Even in coco, though, the pH range she's reporting is just too, too high. 6.2 is the very high end of where I personally will let things get.

I could talk about what I see in terms of what the plants are telling me (for instance, I see necrotic lesions on the veins indicating calcium problems, leaves are almost yellow they're so light--what's up with N uptake? crinkling that's indicative of pH problems, slight reddening of stems indicative of phosphorous issues, interveinal chlorosis that shows magnesium is either locked out or is not sufficient), but since I haven't grown hydro I don't know enough to say what should or could be done. I will say that I don't think I'll ever try Hydroton, ever. I wonder how it behaves compared to perlite (done perlite hempies, talk about EASY, just required a lot of feed).

WG, a quick fix to the reservoir temperature might be to take some plastic bottles, fill them with water and freeze them. Then, just drop them in the reservoir. Reefkeepers do this to keep their aquariums in the right temperature range.

 

[Green Mopho]

I rarely pH my Hydroton anymore. It runs pretty neutral, just gotta flush all the shit out of it, a few feedings and it is where you want it. I know the cation exchange is less desirable than coco or perlite, but for me at least, hydroton has always been super easy! Make sure you do a good rinse of the hydroton with some kind of filtered water, but no need to pre pH and all this extra steps.

Anyway

You problem looks like lockout. The main deficiency I can see is Calcium, which rarely is caused by an actual lack of calcium, especially in veg. Ca def is usually caused by pH, in my experience too low of a pH, but I'm sure pH being out of range in general would cause the same lock out.

A cheap foliar mix to help them along would be to take your DM nutes and mix them at less than 1/4 of the strength that you would feed them in this stage of life, and add some a wetting agent, i.e. DM Saturator/Penetrator, CocoWet, or just a drop of dish soap if you are ballin' on a budget. Maybe even crush up 1/2 of an unbuffered aspirin to help alleviate the stress they are going through. I would go for 3 times per week on the foliar. Spray with lights off, go back 1 hour later and foliar with water. Keep RH up around 45-50% to help them heal faster, but not much higher, as they are already stressed and will easy be susceptible to mold/mildew.

Is your pH rising or falling over the course of 24-hours, a few days, etc.? Can we see pics of the roots? Lets figure out what is going on down there.

Falling pH is fungal or bacterial root rot. Since you are growing sterile, add more H2O2, you can double or triple the recommended doses if needed and willing, it won't hurt the plants.

Slow rising pH is a healthy natural system, but if your pH is rising very rapidly, say from 5.8 to 6.5 in a matter of 24 hours, then you have an algae issue. This will be a pain to get rid of, cold temps won't do shit to stop it, and neither will hydrogen peroxide. This is when you need either bleach or physan 20, just a few drops running for 24-48 hours or so, drain, flush again for 1 hour, then add back beneficial fungus/bacteria and enzymes. Its the only way to really win the battle against algae long term.

 

[whiskeygirl]

I rarely pH my Hydroton anymore. It runs pretty neutral, just gotta flush all the shit out of it, a few feedings and it is where you want it. I know the cation exchange is less desirable than coco or perlite, but for me at least, hydroton has always been super easy! Make sure you do a good rinse of the hydroton with some kind of filtered water, but no need to pre pH and all this extra steps.

Anyway

You problem looks like lockout. The main deficiency I can see is Calcium, which rarely is caused by an actual lack of calcium, especially in veg. Ca def is usually caused by pH, in my experience too low of a pH, but I'm sure pH being out of range in general would cause the same lock out.

A cheap foliar mix to help them along would be to take your DM nutes and mix them at less than 1/4 of the strength that you would feed them in this stage of life, and add some a wetting agent, i.e. DM Saturator/Penetrator, CocoWet, or just a drop of dish soap if you are ballin' on a budget. Maybe even crush up 1/2 of an unbuffered aspirin to help alleviate the stress they are going through. I would go for 3 times per week on the foliar. Spray with lights off, go back 1 hour later and foliar with water. Keep RH up around 45-50% to help them heal faster, but not much higher, as they are already stressed and will easy be susceptible to mold/mildew.

Is your pH rising or falling over the course of 24-hours, a few days, etc.? Can we see pics of the roots? Lets figure out what is going on down there.

Falling pH is fungal or bacterial root rot. Since you are growing sterile, add more H2O2, you can double or triple the recommended doses if needed and willing, it won't hurt the plants.

Slow rising pH is a healthy natural system, but if your pH is rising very rapidly, say from 5.8 to 6.5 in a matter of 24 hours, then you have an algae issue. This will be a pain to get rid of, cold temps won't do shit to stop it, and neither will hydrogen peroxide. This is when you need either bleach or physan 20, just a few drops running for 24-48 hours or so, drain, flush again for 1 hour, then add back beneficial fungus/bacteria and enzymes. Its the only way to really win the battle against algae long term.

Plants looked a little better today. Did a nute change. Set the DM A & B up to 235ppm along with 1ml/gal Zone. This level still seems low, but I'm nervous about shocking them again.

PH set at 5.8. It ended up settling in at 6.3 over the next 3 hours.

Roots are also looking better, although still have some brownish color. never added h202...should I?? and how much??

May try your foliar feeding tomarrow. How long do you need your lights off when doing this?

Thanks
WG

 

[lazarus718]

How did your roots get so bad?!?! You would want to get your pH down under 6.0, a lot of your nutes will lock out above that point. I honestly think your main problem is with the roots from the sound of things, and those would be the most important part of your plants....diagnosis does not look good on this one. The H2O2 will help to try to get rid of any fungus that might be living in your root zone but I just wonder how they got so bad off in the first place? Maybe some history behind what happened and some root pics might help?

 

[Green Mopho]

Plants looked a little better today. Did a nute change. Set the DM A & B up to 235ppm along with 1ml/gal Zone. This level still seems low, but I'm nervous about shocking them again.

PH set at 5.8. It ended up settling in at 6.3 over the next 3 hours.

Roots are also looking better, although still have some brownish color. never added h202...should I?? and how much??

May try your foliar feeding tomarrow. How long do you need your lights off when doing this?

Thanks
WG

pH it back down to 5.8 after it settles.

Yes, try the H2O2, it will clear your roots up. It works with zone.

For foliar, just leave lights off until it looks dry.

 

[TheCoolestMan]

Calcium-Magesium deficiency.

Pick up some Bontanicare Cal-Mag+


The new growth is looking much better.. I would try Cal-Mag @ 2ML/gallon

I will go with this one. And yes never look at old leaves when trying to cure a plant always check new growth.

 

[BudGoggles]

Thats why I quite using the DM & zone. I was getting funny root issues out of nowhere. I switched it up to triflex with aquashield & roots excel and I havent had an issue so far the last couple months

BG