Blastfact
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While not a big fan of the cell phone apps they can get one by concerning par/ppfd/dli if setup and used correctly. It's better than nothing. Enjoy your grow..... Looking good! OOOOO and it's all going to change,,,, LMFAO!
B2ACG
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Limited on height space.. I would train them early, low stress strain at first.. then Heavy Stress Training every time they try to grow above the desired canopy level.. dont be scared to bend or crimp a branch... set the structure before you switch to bloom.. plant manipulation is key with space issues.. keep a low plant with a wide canopy.. they will stretch for the first 2 weeks of bloom.. so make sure you have the proper light distance.. 24 inches away in bloom does good without any light bleaching or foxtails... buy a bluelab ph meter.. good luck sir...
B2ACG
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Intake and exhaust fans never go off... fans inside the grow space never go off... humidifier and dehumidifier should be set on a inkbird controller...
Newbgrower1
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Thanks I’ll have to look into that. And I know I’m already looking into better lights and humidifiers lol havnt even started yet. Lol
Newbgrower1
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I’ll definitely have to get a new humidifier do you recommend any. I kinda want it as small as possible and I need it to run constantly as long as it has power. I have a controller on the way but my humidifier won’t turn on till I push the button so it’s kinda pointless lol. I’ll look into the inkbird I ordered this one
B2ACG
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I think.i got mine at target.. Holds a gallon... has a manuel turn knob.. turns on and off using the imkbird controller .. yeah same deal...
J.dub
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Yeah, nice pickup with the humidity controller with receptacles -- that's better than how I'm doing it with just the timer on lights-off. That's a nice middle-road between my primitive method and going all-out with an entire high-end grow controller/setup. I have a 1-gallon humidifier in my 3X3, and it's as small as I'd go, at least here in the western U.S. I already have to fill it twice a day until they're deep into veg.
delps8
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You get what you pay for. I use an Apogee MQ-500 + the wand and take advantage of its features. Good example - if you don't have a wand, it's not easy to get take a reading in a tent with the flaps closed. Sure, you can work around it but if you have a wand you don't need the workaround.
Apogee will calibrate their meters. IIRC, it's $50 to recal. Other meters may not offer that service. Thinking of service, Apogee has tech support and they know a surprising amount about cannabis.
You might want to check out these test results.
The lowest $$ I'd be tempted to go for is the SpotOn that Migro resells. I don't know much about it but my sense is that it does read the standard PAR range. I'd definitely get more info about the device before sending $$.
If you can do without a wand and just want PAR values, get a light meter and use 0.015 to convert to µmols. That's heresy to people who've bought a PAR meter but I've spent some time testing values for a Vipar Spectra XS-1500 and a Growcraft X2 (veg) light at dimmer settings up to 100% and 0.015 is accurate to within a few dozen µmols. An Apogee is calibrated to 5%± so, if you can get a $35 light meter and come up with the same number, that's a bargain.
I've also tested Korona/Photone and don't use it. I've had some good email conversations with the programmer and, while I respect what he's doing (I've been a professional programmer for > 30 years including a stint at Apple), it's just not for me. If I didn't have the Apogee there are a few very valid reasons why I'd use a light meter instead of a phone + software - too long to go into at 0012.
J.dub
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delps8 brings some great points. I think it all comes down to investment and expectations on your return on investment. If I was to get to a point where I could expand my grow and make it more than just a head stash and passion thing, I would no doubt get an Apogee, as it's now "a tool that I use for my job." On the other hand, I'm a poor, dirty hippie right now, and I get a kick out of the DIY aspect of my operation and the results I can get with it, so saving some scratch is not only necessary, but a part of how I measure my success, if that makes sense. I'm a skilled tradesman, and have been in the mechanical, electronic, HVAC/R and piping, and electrical worlds my whole adult life, so I think that's a big reason why I took such a shine to growing and setting up grows. Thermodynamics is what puts veggies on my table, lol. In essence, what I'm saying is, I think you can find success in a lot of different ways, as long as you know what you're trying to do. If you know your weakest link, then taking one of the stronger parts of your grow to the "Nth degree" without bringing your weak link up to "PAR" (sorry, I couldn't resist the pun opportunity), then you're only marginally moving your grow forward for the effort/money. At least this is how I see it.
delps8
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Point taken re. the Apogee - it's a good chunk of change and that's why I'm keen on using growers using light meter. It will get you in the ballpark and then it's up to the grower to read the plant. There are so many other variables in the growing equation that not having the optimal amount of light is way down the list.
Speaking of variables. Below is a screenshot from one of the Bugbee videos. I've used it as a checklist.
.
"Thermodynamics is what puts veggies on my table, lol."
Got a chuckle out of that and it so very true.
"In essence, what I'm saying is, I think you can find success in a lot of different ways, as long as you know what you're trying to do. If you know your weakest link, then taking one of the stronger parts of your grow to the "Nth degree" without bringing your weak link up to "PAR" (sorry, I couldn't resist the pun opportunity), then you're only marginally moving your grow forward for the effort/money. At least this is how I see it."
Good way to put it. No sense raining photons down if VPD is completely out of whack or if your nutes aren't squared away. It does pain me to see growers focus on the minutiae while, at the same time, starving their plant of light. "Stomping out the piss ants and letting the elephants run wild.", as we referred to it in a former life.
Newbgrower1
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Thanks I’m gonna have to go out and get a humidifier. I can’t get it above 55% I just want to hold off till I get my door made up. Plastic should be here on Sunday.
Newbgrower1
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I think I’m just going to go the lux meter route for now. I’m still looking for a par meter I just can’t justify spending that on my first indoor grow. I really appreciate your comments and experience. 1 question though. I multiply the lux by .015 and that will give me par? Is that for full spectrum lights.I only ask because after doing some research I came to the conclusion it depends on your spectrum of lights being used. I can be 100% wrong. Just trying to figure it all out before germination. Thanks again
delps8
- 31
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If you can get the rest of your grow environment dialed in, you should try to get 800 - 1000µmols on your cannabis plants. If you've got a limitation on plant height, it's even more important to get them "lotsa light". Characteristics of plants that aren't getting a lot of light are that they're tall (they're stretching to get more light), they don't have a lot of leaves, they have large internals spaces, and, of course, yield is low.
I've attached a picture of a Gorilla Glue auto that's being grown using a Gixxer "1000 watt" LED grow light. The max output of the Gixxer is 16700 lux at 30 cm or about 250 µmols at 12". The photo below that is of two Gorilla Glue autos at day 44 that were grown using a Mars SP 3000 grow light + a blue LED puck. More light = more weed.
There's a strong argument to be made to growing only one plant. I've tried to grow as many as four plants in my 2' x 4' tent but no can do. As of my last grow, it's 2 plants only. For your set up, you've got two SF 1000's so two plants should work out really well. The only concern that I've got about those lights is that the PPFD map shows 900µmols in the center but only 300 in the corners. That's a significant roll off ("low uniformity") so you may want to LST your plants so that they pick up the stronger light toward the center. That's where a PAR or lux meter will pay for itself very quickly because it will allow you to move your colas to the areas where the PAR levels are the highest. Our eyes can't see the difference in PAR levels but a $35 light meter will do the trick just fine.
As others have posted, LST Is a good option and topping plants is an excellent way to control their height. While it's great that topping removes the center cola ("the apical stem"), which gives you a more uniform canopy, it also leaves on the secondary stems and those are the ones that are on the outside of the plant…which is exactly where the SF 1000's don't have a lot of light. I'd top the plants, regardless, and LST and trellis the plants so they are in the center of the light cast.
Newbgrower1
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Yea I started to realize that last year. My goal this winter is to run a plant that produces good smokable buds with no larf. Lol I still have 6oz from my summer grow so I don’t need much. I just really enjoyed watching it grow and couldn’t wait till spring to do another run. I’m just the type of person that if I go to do something I want all the facts upfront so I only have to do it once. Thanks for the advice.
Blastfact
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I use a MQ610. Photone One and a few others are what pushed me to popping for the real thing. I spent years using Lux, foot and candle meters and screwing with the conversions. And my 13 Pro Max is a pain requiring a paper sleeve to make Photone work right. Like most things Apple/Mac now days there becoming more and more useless with there carpeted prison cell operating systems. And there are several different offering from Apogee. If I had it to so over I would get the sensor I could use with a laptop or the PPFD/DLI unit. As far as I know all the cell phone apps are lux meters and do the conversion.
delps8
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The lux meter is money well spent. I love the Apogee but if you can get 80% (or more) of the job done for 4% of the price (35/500) that's not even a decision.
The 0.015 factor is, pardon the pun, spot on for the Vipar Spectra XS-1500 and the Chilled Growcraft X2 veg (a blue-heavy veg light). The spectrum for the XS-1500 is here while the Chilled veg light is here. All of the lights in the XS series have the same spectrum but the Chilled is very different. Despite that, the factor of 0.015 is very accurate. In contrast, the factor for the Chilled "full cycle" light (flower), is 0.016. In the real world, that's a tiny difference - at 0.015, 60k lux = 900µmols whereas at 0.016, 60k lux is 960µmols. That 60 unit difference (at very high light levels) is just a bit above the calibrated accuracy of an Apogee (5%±).
Re. the specific spectrum - red photons carry more energy than blue and that's reflected (!) in the McCree curve so, yes, spectrum does make a difference. The question is how much of a difference and, second, what's the impact of the difference.
To my way of thinking, it's "measurable but insignificant". One reason is that we're trying to get to get to a starting point in terms of setting out light levels. If you're a bit below the light saturation point for the current grow, you can always bump the PPFD. On the other hand, if you're seeing light avoidance behavior or other symptoms of too much light, shut out the lights 30 minutes early (assuming you're not growing photoperiods in flower ), drop the input wattage, or raise the light a bit (ATM, 1" of increased hang height drops PPFD by 50±µmols - that's just an example, mind you).
The other issue is that there are so many other variables that the difference in spectrum comes out in the wash.
Last point - Bugbee, perhaps in his video about light quality but I'd bet it's also in his "myths" video, emphasizes that the key issue for yield is how much light rather than which spectrum. The spectrum does matter - blue light tends to product plants that are shorter and have more foliage - but the point that he drives home is to get as much light as possible, up to the light saturation point.
Just to muddy the waters, Bugbee documents, but not in his "myths" video, the negative impact of blue light on yield but that's a discussion for a different posting (for ranges of blue photons up to the 20% amount which was the highest they test, an increase in percentage of blue light above 4% blue causes a 1% decrease in yield). That's one of the advantages to using a veg light and then switching to a flower light.
Newbgrower1
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Thanks I’m definitely going to do some lst.I’m thinking it’s the only way it will fit. I havnt looked into hst too much, but now I will. I appreciate the feedback.
delps8
- 31
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"Photone One and a few others are what pushed me to popping for the real thing." - I bought the MQ-500 after trying to get Korona to work on my iPhone XS Max. That failure, coupled with the idea that I need to put a strip of paper on the phone puts Photone in the "nice hack" category for me.
"Like most things Apple/Mac now days there becoming more and more useless with there carpeted prison cell operating systems." - Ouch! (former Apple programmer here!). Apple has always had complete control of their environment - it's a key part of their competitive advantage. There's always Android if you're looking for something a little more adventurous. :-)
"And there are several different offering from Apogee. If I had it to so over I would get the sensor I could use with a laptop or the PPFD/DLI unit." - The USB link is the way to go for data capture. The MQ-500 is great for bopping around a small grow but if you want data on a lot of plants, USB transfer is the way to go. No doubt about that.
"As far as I know all the cell phone apps are lux meters and do the conversion." - yup. Cell phone sensors are sensitive to what the human eye sees. One of the tech support reps at Apogee explained to me that one of their cost drivers is that their devices use multiple sensors to cover the PAR/ePAR band.
Newbgrower1
- 494
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Yea once I saw that the two outlets were for different uses( 1 for temp and 1 for rh%) I was sold. So now temp and humidity are automatic(once I find a better humidifier).Lights are automatic on a timer. Fans are always on so all I really have to worry about is water and nutes and making sure I have my lights set up right.I’m happy with it and it only cost me lil under $400 before seeds
Newbgrower1
- 494
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Awsome info man a lot I never thought about. I’m definitely lst and topping but I think I’m going to do one plant for now with both lights during flower. I’m gonna check my lux and try to convert to par today to give me a better idea of what I’m working with.
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