Hi there, new, showing off my plant

[TestTime]

Hello again, I am sorry if I came off sounding like I was talking down but I did not mean to if I did.but what I will say is I have most definitely seen light leeks force plants back into like half veg and the results ended up being herbs, they all ended up with seeds and airy, looking just like this poor girl.
Sure I get your experimenting now, I did not know, so with that I wish u all the luck.
Sincerely, kyfarmerb

Thank you for following up. You are always welcome to stop by and comment.

 

[KG1]

Firstly they look no different than the start except more bare I fail to see much meaningful growth.

But you mentioned far red or even red light, I feel to avoid a discussion about it I could just provide a link and you read up on stuff wiki says.

Phytochrome - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

A brief note to the Pr and Pfr phytochrome relationship of red and far red light at the end of the day.

Many growers already looked at all this stuff, nothing ever came out of it but click bait.

This plant is getting even more complex every time you have an idea omg!

 

[TestTime]

Firstly they look no different than the start except more bare I fail to see much meaningful growth.

But you mentioned far red or even red light, I feel to avoid a discussion about it I could just provide a link and you read up on stuff wiki says.

Phytochrome - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

A brief note to the Pr and Pfr phytochrome relationship of red and far red light at the end of the day.

Many growers already looked at all this stuff, nothing ever came out of it but click bait.

This plant is getting even more complex every time you have an idea omg!

Oh yeah, I spent years looking at the positive and negative pieces of the red. That was one of my problems.

I had the first red LED. Circular light. Trivial amount of Watts but it was the first one. The store owner bought it for himself. Those were the days of serious grow shops. I hung out there a lot of time, just bullshitting with the people walking through and hanging with the owner and learning. It was going to be his personal display for the grow in the store and his clerk accidentally sold it to me.

Score!

He didn't mind that much, I had spent thousands at that store over the last 2 years.

I accidentally triggered incredible flowering about 15 years ago with a home Depot bathroom heating lamp. It was red. It had a miniscule bit of a minuscule bit of whatever the correct wavelength was. I could never duplicate it. That one light took me through three grows over about 2 years. Lots of other lights of course, but I took that light and I waved it around the goddamn plants for about 5 minutes every night before I put them to sleep.

And yes, I paid attention to pinholes in those days.

Yes, it was all magic and I imagined it all and I'm sure it's all placebo effect. I'm good with those.

So from that point on I'm like what's the pluses and what's the minus of this is? And what's the balance? The different reds triggered the different pathways and one suppressed the other.

Am I going to go deep into it again? Maybe.

3 months from now if I can afford that analyzer absolutely.

I already know what these lights do. Now I want to know why.

 

[TestTime]

Firstly they look no different than the start except more bare I fail to see much meaningful growth.

But you mentioned far red or even red light, I feel to avoid a discussion about it I could just provide a link and you read up on stuff wiki says.

Phytochrome - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

A brief note to the Pr and Pfr phytochrome relationship of red and far red light at the end of the day.

Many growers already looked at all this stuff, nothing ever came out of it but click bait.

This plant is getting even more complex every time you have an idea omg!

And I'm okay with any observations that it may or may not look. What I say it looks like. Number one. I do big shots and I toss them up here without paying too much attention. When I'm at home I zoom into them on my 7-ft TV. When they're online they get downscaled and you can't see shit. Not that I'm insulting anyone, I'm just saying you can't see shit.

I could go focus on detail. I could work on it. I'm not going to.

There are people out here who know that they can DM me and I'll send them hi-res pictures with circles and and arrows and a full explanation on the back page. If you don't get the reference please don't bother telling me there's no back page.

Take care

 

[TestTime]

Firstly they look no different than the start except more bare I fail to see much meaningful growth.

But you mentioned far red or even red light, I feel to avoid a discussion about it I could just provide a link and you read up on stuff wiki says.

Phytochrome - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

A brief note to the Pr and Pfr phytochrome relationship of red and far red light at the end of the day.

Many growers already looked at all this stuff, nothing ever came out of it but click bait.

This plant is getting even more complex every time you have an idea omg!

Check out the leftward leaning top which then does a sharp right and count a couple nodes on a variety of stuff.

That's simply 2 days.

Sometimes I see three and sometimes I see five but I'll just round it down to getting simply a node per day per end point.

I would expect there to be something going more vertical tomorrow but I'm not positive, it depends on the reaction of how I move the plant and which direction it's coming from.

The overhead is soft at that corner. There's nothing behind. There's low light shielded to the left, but that low light to the left is good enough to pull out the undergrowth and get that direction going. So the top said screw that I'm going right. I see some bright shit over there. So I had to juggle a bit and I'll see in a few days what effect it had.

Lots of pictures to pull from once I go looking I guess. Then I got to start zooming and now I get to crop and cut and paste a few. So feel free to say hey. Give me a shot of that piece of that and I'll zoom in it and get it for you.

 

[TestTime]

Oh I forgot. CO2. How could I forget CO2. I've been posting for so long and I forgot all about the CO2.

Oops

Sorry about that.

Here you go. Around 4K.

Of course, if you want to maintain CO2, you got to really keep that enclosure going.

View attachment 2533450

View attachment 2533451

Okay everyone, sorry about this one. This was a misdirection. I wanted to see if someone would bite. Bite. No one did and that's a good thing.

Yeah that number is way poisonous.

Outside's 400 plus and inside by default is around 600 if I have air flow going. Beyond that, if I close the window, the room will climb to around $1,500. If I'm in it it'll push to poison 2000. When I walk out it levels back down around 14 or 1,500.

This room is high CO2 by default. Here comes the assumptions.

That base it is incredibly biologically active. It's digesting a whole bunch of stuff and kicking out CO2. CO2 is heavier than air it gathers underneath and wafts up slowly with the gentle breeze.

So this plant is incredibly CO2 enriched.

If I was going to attempt to duplicate, I would figure out CO2 supplementation. 15 years ago. I lugged a really big tank around. I don't want to do that.

Oh well, options.

 

[KG1]

Oh yeah, I spent years looking at the positive and negative pieces of the red. That was one of my problems.

I had the first red LED. Circular light. Trivial amount of Watts but it was the first one. The store owner bought it for himself. Those were the days of serious grow shops. I hung out there a lot of time, just bullshitting with the people walking through and hanging with the owner and learning. It was going to be his personal display for the grow in the store and his clerk accidentally sold it to me.

Score!

He didn't mind that much, I had spent thousands at that store over the last 2 years.

I accidentally triggered incredible flowering about 15 years ago with a home Depot bathroom heating lamp. It was red. It had a miniscule bit of a minuscule bit of whatever the correct wavelength was. I could never duplicate it. That one light took me through three grows over about 2 years. Lots of other lights of course, but I took that light and I waved it around the goddamn plants for about 5 minutes every night before I put them to sleep.

And yes, I paid attention to pinholes in those days.

Yes, it was all magic and I imagined it all and I'm sure it's all placebo effect. I'm good with those.

So from that point on I'm like what's the pluses and what's the minus of this is? And what's the balance? The different reds triggered the different pathways and one suppressed the other.

Am I going to go deep into it again? Maybe.

3 months from now if I can afford that analyzer absolutely.

I already know what these lights do. Now I want to know why.

There is no plus or minus this is simply how evolution played out and a system of plant light sensing.

Let's look at a recent failure that at first is like the assumptions your trying to make, Auto flowers.

- Now none of our plants can flower until sexual maturity is reached, this if observant will be around the point node symmetry breaks into alternate not adjacent and around the fourth to sixth node approximately. Let's say the quickest a plant can't start flowering is after four weeks veg and a general metric most growers use.

- Then the quickest it can flower in is eight weeks putting the quickest auto flowers regular and photoperiod strains at 12 weeks germination to harvest.

- Now we run the quickest auto and photo in separate tents the photoperiod 12/12 the auto 24/0 light and come back in eight weeks.

- Logic now dictates that the auto had twice the light and now should have twice the bud, but this isn't what we find and actually we don't seem to get a whole lot more from autos and if we did I am %100 sure barely anyone would run anything else seeing that they would then get half the yield of autos.

- That's like we applied a thought experiment to autos and photos, logic dictates in this industry that if you offer someone a light that grows %50 more or a strain that gives %50 more or a soil or anything of superior value that these products will become almost all that people use. We seen this with LEDs, who even uses HPS but a few rag tags these days, everyone got offered a superior product now one is used by most and what was used by most is now barely seen.

We can apply this to things like if you made a strain that gave %30 bigger buds I'm pretty sure most growers would drop everything and buy these or if I made a new led light that hit a 4umol rate or magic potion that doubles root mass.

So auto flowers weren't the biological marvel we hoped for and for a few reasons but this comes back to you and your assumption and why they won't work.

Now back over in some lab somewhere in the world some scientists (et al) are making use of far red light and pushing extra growth from various species like arabidopsis to tomatoes right up to C4 desert type plants. In fact in one lab that push every aspect of growth and get a miraculous six percent growth gain for all that hard work. Trying to master these nuances of plants won't add much to any grow, it will to an indoor tomato farmer with million dollar crop, many thousands in profit.


Why Co2 doesn't work for most and why most shouldn't use it apart from the 'It can kill you part' is that it is the limiting factor so until you achieve the fastest healthiest biological maximum point of growth without it your better of working on that than co2 as it can't add extra till plants are growing fast enough.

Your of the basic assumption that co2 = more growth which at a point it will but you haven't reached the point your plant wants more Co2 for it to be useful.

Phytochrome Pfr naturally resets anyway, we run 24/7 and don't see any negative effects from it, it's hard to see much from any light far red or UV or any other, many lights of differing spectrum on the market all give same results no one reporting mutant buds or double yields from one singular type.

 

[SlingShot]

just catching up, what's been lightly discussed here since last drop in is what I've been being thinking of as I lay for a nap or sit for a crap, that being the duplication of or the extending of life span, be that re-veg, cloning (I've successfully cloned in flower though some ass) or grafting, or the this and thats, all surface thoughts without deeper realistic think, simply possibilities to extend plant life and discussion. as you were.

 

[TestTime]

There is no plus or minus this is simply how evolution played out and a system of plant light sensing.

Let's look at a recent failure that at first is like the assumptions your trying to make, Auto flowers.

- Now none of our plants can flower until sexual maturity is reached, this if observant will be around the point node symmetry breaks into alternate not adjacent and around the fourth to sixth node approximately. Let's say the quickest a plant can't start flowering is after four weeks veg and a general metric most growers use.

- Then the quickest it can flower in is eight weeks putting the quickest auto flowers regular and photoperiod strains at 12 weeks germination to harvest.

- Now we run the quickest auto and photo in separate tents the photoperiod 12/12 the auto 24/0 light and come back in eight weeks.

- Logic now dictates that the auto had twice the light and now should have twice the bud, but this isn't what we find and actually we don't seem to get a whole lot more from autos and if we did I am %100 sure barely anyone would run anything else seeing that they would then get half the yield of autos.

- That's like we applied a thought experiment to autos and photos, logic dictates in this industry that if you offer someone a light that grows %50 more or a strain that gives %50 more or a soil or anything of superior value that these products will become almost all that people use. We seen this with LEDs, who even uses HPS but a few rag tags these days, everyone got offered a superior product now one is used by most and what was used by most is now barely seen.

We can apply this to things like if you made a strain that gave %30 bigger buds I'm pretty sure most growers would drop everything and buy these or if I made a new led light that hit a 4umol rate or magic potion that doubles root mass.

So auto flowers weren't the biological marvel we hoped for and for a few reasons but this comes back to you and your assumption and why they won't work.

Now back over in some lab somewhere in the world some scientists (et al) are making use of far red light and pushing extra growth from various species like arabidopsis to tomatoes right up to C4 desert type plants. In fact in one lab that push every aspect of growth and get a miraculous six percent growth gain for all that hard work. Trying to master these nuances of plants won't add much to any grow, it will to an indoor tomato farmer with million dollar crop, many thousands in profit.


Why Co2 doesn't work for most and why most shouldn't use it apart from the 'It can kill you part' is that it is the limiting factor so until you achieve the fastest healthiest biological maximum point of growth without it your better of working on that than co2 as it can't add extra till plants are growing fast enough.

Your of the basic assumption that co2 = more growth which at a point it will but you haven't reached the point your plant wants more Co2 for it to be useful.

Phytochrome Pfr naturally resets anyway, we run 24/7 and don't see any negative effects from it, it's hard to see much from any light far red or UV or any other, many lights of differing spectrum on the market all give same results no one reporting mutant buds or double yields from one singular type.

I will do further thought and review on the red discussion.

I don't care about CO2. This random CO2 was plenty and less would be plenty. High CO2 is only useful in very specific highlight situations and I don't need a lot of light for this. I never did. You are always right.

I did serious enclosed tent with big fucking CO2 tanks, not that I needed them that big. It was simply I had a big tank and it lasted a long time and I kept the measurements perfect and I had to cycle out that damn tent because I was doing ceramic metal halide and HPS depending on which portion and I don't want to do CO2 again.

I will be doing mushrooms, not psilocybin, edible, and I'll do it in a shared space for my own personal use and that'll pump a shitload of CO2 in there. Maybe poisonous and I'll have to have better air flow. The next thing is to put a fish tank in there and do aquaculture and see if I can get a complete cycle.

Either way I'm not going to go buy CO2 ever again unless it's dry ice so I can shake out the trichones.

Or if I break down and do some MIG welding. I got stick and TIG right now and I know how to MIG, but I can't justify the hassle of the gas refills or the spool mechanism.

I think there's an open issue on light utilization because you're used to most of your light being blocked by the exterior of the buds. Or wasted when it hits the dirt or the wall.

Mine are exposed. They're getting a lot more light from a volume and face perspective. There's dramatic difference in light utilization. I have a hard block wall that absorbs everything and it does it in such a fashion that there's stimulation points everywhere.

You don't get that in any other plant. And please keep in mind when I say you. It's the generic you, I'm not speaking down to any person here.

I have no idea how it's all going to shake out, that's for the dry ice extract to be tested. That'll be in a month or two depending on how my finances shake out.

Either way, it's cool. Thanks for the comments.

Take care

 

[TestTime]

just catching up, what's been lightly discussed here since last drop in is what I've been being thinking of as I lay for a nap or sit for a crap, that being the duplication of or the extending of life span, be that re-veg, cloning (I've successfully cloned in flower though some ass) or grafting, or the this and thats, all surface thoughts without deeper realistic think, simply possibilities to extend plant life and discussion. as you were.

Yes sir!

 

[TestTime]

A bit more on that tent CO2 in the old days.

Those are fucking industrial controllers with these long metal probes on wires that were fluid filled and it was pressure based. It had to sense the day versus the night and whatever temperature was within range and then it had to trigger the fans for the exhaust because I was doing about 1800 w with hoods and or tubes depending on configuration of the moment, Hood's always fully enclosed of course, lots of fan pushing and pulling cuz I'm sure I was doing it wrong, plus the rolling air conditioners which had to have their exhaust snaked behind my bed because this was our closet grow. Oh my Lord, the extension cords that went across that three-bedroom apartment because I was still in electricity from every circuit, Damn it, a tent within a closet within an apartment that I cut holes in the walls through to get those exhaust tubes through, no I did not get my security deposit back, either ceramic metal halide or HPS depending on whether veg or flowering.

But I couldn't measure in those days because I couldn't afford that many $1,000 measuring machine. Which is now about 60 bucks and damn accurate.

So I did a lot of calculations and estimations and kept everything with whatever range I wanted. I had that little thing bubbling and going at whatever rate and I always kept buckets of water bubbling cuz I had to get rid of that damn chlorine so I always made sure I bubbled them for a few days so it was nice and humid in there when I wanted it.

That industrial controller was very expensive but that thing was worth it just to be able to spin those dials and press those buttons. That thing was fun. I think it got lost in the house fire/looting process. I don't recall seeing it ever since. And I bought it from that grow shop where I also bought that first LED. That son of a bitch had a wall of controllers and I could afford one of them. Just one. So that was the one I bought.

I lugged that big tank up three flights to a third floor apartment and I used a cane in those days because my EDS was kicking my ass. I could never grow enough for oil in those days. But that was my dream. Someday I would grow enough that I could make the oil.

I am sure there are pictures of that tent and Skunk magazine and I have at least three copies of it from the article I wrote and when I come across it in this chaotic environment at my house that will resolve in sometime in the future, I will take pictures of that article and I will upload it and you can laugh at my stupidity, but you will enjoy the trichone shots that I got from the postal microscope that I bought for the project.

As I carefully explained how I measured the range of as they went from the various colors and I chose when I was going to harvest. Oh my Lord, I was so important to myself.

The seeds were random bag seed so I got all kinds of different phenotypes. I only did between five and eight plants at a time as best I could fit in the bags in the buckets. Maybe I got 3/4 of a pound from each grow and I was very happy about it. Silly me.

I cycled through those for a few years and then got annoyed. This shit's just way too complex. The last cycle got some bugs and this cycle I had to deal with whatever and God damn it. These lights are hot and noisy and the fans and the cost.

Weed was 400 bucks an ounce then. It was worth it. And the availability sucked and the quality sucked. So whatever I grew was far far better than anything I could buy. So it was worth it. It was a pain in the ass but it was worth it. For a while.

So rather than do that again, I grew some mushrooms and went to jail a couple years later. Double silly me.

I was doing an illegal closet grow that could have put me in jail and destroyed my life in New Jersey and it was exceptionally stupid. But hey I left the wife and started a new life and God damn it. I was going to have some fun. And I documented it and I published it and skunk magazine. I was a fucking moron.

Statute of limitations is long gone on that one.

Was that a good dementia Grandpa moment? I hope it was entertaining.

Take care

 

[TestTime]

Additional story of the time frame at that apartment. Does anybody remember a earthquake in New Jersey? Because that's the only one I ever experienced and I was there most of my damn life.

So I'm puttering around with some cannabis or some mushrooms in a closet and the whole fucking world shakes.

There are three people in the apartment, my wife and two of my kids, and those kids are in 9th grade and adult with job and I'm saving the rent money that he's getting from his job and I'm going to give it back to him when he buys his house okay.

They all run into the living room and start screaming at me. They want to know what I did.

There was a fucking earthquake and the whole world shook and all the buildings got cracked and all kinds of shit happened and at that moment they were sure the only possibility of the situation was that I caused it.

I do not have that power. But some people feel it in their gut that I do. I don't understand it, it is just there.

Which also means I get the blame for everything as well.

Take care

 

[TestTime]

Additional comment on power. Not electricity, attitudes of people.

There was a time when the guys who ran the mainframe were the high priests and they got to bless whether or not your shit got to run. They were assholes.

Then came along the mini computers (BUNCH) and started kicking their ass so they had to bow down a little and open up a little and technology advanced a bit.

Ibm responded with the s34 and upped as400, which is basically the equivalent of a brain of a toaster but an ass kicking operating system. They could have owned the world if they made it cheap enough, but they didn't.

Then there came Unix. Then there came Linux. In this time frame the spawning of the programmer class and the admin class and the email administrator class was born.

Sure, there's some Microsoft out there but I'm going to ignore that.

The above professions allowed people to become gods within their own kingdoms. Multiple universes are spawned and created and exercised and disposed of in a blink.

Programmers create their own worlds in their heads and then create them in the real world in some fashion. It is a godlike feeling.

And then you had the god of gods. The system architect.

Sometimes that doesn't really translate well to the outside world when interacting with other people.

It took me a long time to learn that, but then I learned to switch it on as I felt it was needed.

Before I actually understood it, I used it by default way too much. At that point. I called it the Bene Gesserit voice.

I had a boss/ coworker who used to scream at me.

Goddamn it testtime, just because you're confident doesn't mean you're right!

I know. But the voice worked.

Take care

 

[KG1]

Another point you mentioned, enclosed hoods/cool tubes.

Now that we understand heat in the metrics of radiation conduction and convection we can see that these cool tubes do absolutely nothing to cool light radiation and being that exhausting heat in air is super easy and really unable to build much at the amount of extraction we use they don't cool any more than an open hood.

Add to this that a light bulb at our wattages is really an ineffective heater of air in the first place. Place a 600w in a room measuring how long it takes to heat it up then put the equivalent wattage heater air blowing heater in....

My issues with LEDs, they aren't much cooler I still need same extraction as most heat is from radiation. They are too bigger, no way can you run 600w models in a one by one meter tent in fact if I touch the walls in a 3x3 ft tent I can find one model that runs 500w but becoming a small fire hazard as the tent sucks in round it.

And to that matter if cool tubes and enclosed hoods worked to any meaningful extent for sure we would have cool tube led style suits with glass and fan assisted cooling to tent vents. Another thought experiment to prove how utterly useless cool tubes are.

I never mentioned thermal mass, heat your room walls room will stay warm for ages but take ages for the walls to get hot, use a small foot blower heater and in under a minute you'll heat the room but as soon as you turn it off it goes cold quick. An obvious one but if sort of completes the energy transfer or radiation conduction and convection.

 

[TestTime]

Another point you mentioned, enclosed hoods/cool tubes.

Now that we understand heat in the metrics of radiation conduction and convection we can see that these cool tubes do absolutely nothing to cool light radiation and being that exhausting heat in air is super easy and really unable to build much at the amount of extraction we use they don't cool any more than an open hood.

Add to this that a light bulb at our wattages is really an ineffective heater of air in the first place. Place a 600w in a room measuring how long it takes to heat it up then put the equivalent wattage heater air blowing heater in....

My issues with LEDs, they aren't much cooler I still need same extraction as most heat is from radiation. They are too bigger, no way can you run 600w models in a one by one meter tent in fact if I touch the walls in a 3x3 ft tent I can find one model that runs 500w but becoming a small fire hazard as the tent sucks in round it.

And to that matter if cool tubes and enclosed hoods worked to any meaningful extent for sure we would have cool tube led style suits with glass and fan assisted cooling to tent vents. Another thought experiment to prove how utterly useless cool tubes are.

I never mentioned thermal mass, heat your room walls room will stay warm for ages but take ages for the walls to get hot, use a small foot blower heater and in under a minute you'll heat the room but as soon as you turn it off it goes cold quick. An obvious one but if sort of completes the energy transfer or radiation conduction and convection.

Not daring to comment on the variety here, I just like those oil-filled radiator, electric heaters for feeling of a safety. I like the slow ramp up and I like the slow ramp down.

I hate the red hot blasting of the ceramic heaters. There's no way I will ever be able to make it safe because even though they have to switch that turns them off when they get knocked over, what happens when the cat drops a sock in front of it?

Take care

 

[KG1]

But you and others now understand the science to heat and light and wind, how to place a temperature/humidity probe, correct air speeds for max photosynthesis and how light is not just used for growth but as plant signalling.

Also in looking back we can surmise an approximate of what you were running possibly over 2000ppfd and a wind speed of 10-20 meters a second, the recommended amount 0.3-1.0 approx with air temperature matching your room temperature although at that wind speed real plant feel will be exponentially colder.

 

[TestTime]

But you and others now understand the science to heat and light and wind, how to place a temperature/humidity probe, correct air speeds for max photosynthesis and how light is not just used for growth but as plant signalling.

Also in looking back we can surmise an approximate of what you were running possibly over 2000ppfd and a wind speed of 10-20 meters a second, the recommended amount 0.3-1.0 approx with air temperature matching your room temperature although at that wind speed real plant feel will be exponentially colder.

Can we get past what I was doing and now focus on what I am doing and will be doing?

I have told you you are right 100%. You have spent weeks telling me specific stuff that I was doing wrong and I initially ignored you just cuz I'm an asshole and then I'm like this guy knows what the hell he's doing so I did exactly what you told me to do. You told me to cut that shit out and I did.

Okay?

I'm not saying what you're saying is not of value right now. God damn it. You're giving real information that for some people might be critical stuff. I'm too old and stupid to actually absorb what you are telling me right now.

So if possible, I'd like to focus on tracking a couple of branches so we can watch the specific leaves and nodes generate as it's related to the power of the light and the distance of the light.

Please.

So here I have a spot of a branch where it's the lowest left back corner. It's been there 3 days and I started taking pictures 2 days ago and it's got a bit of growth and you can see the directionality of what grows.

You can also see that the foliage is mostly green with interspersed other color which I will just say yellow. It's green and yellow. Okay. No matter what the lights are, that's green and yellow coming even when it's red. Because I'll take a pictures when the red's on and say shit. I like the picture but I don't want the red. I'm keeping the picture and I'm going to post it occasionally.

With that blather out of the way so you will understand what I'm trying to see and track.

How about we examine this picture.

Okay, green to yellow is about 50/50 with a slight heaviness to the green because it's green underneath, which really means 95 to 5 since it's only yellow on the new growth on the outside or on any new growth on the inside. But there's far more on the outside, so we get about 50/50 on the outside.

You've got a crevice. It's green inside there so it's been there a bit and it's not growing obviously in this picture.

And you've got the antler on top which is a mixture of true edge of branch topped multiple times after it was flowering for 2 months combined with a additional buds that I stripped and the bud branches turn into antlers.

They then they generate new nodes and kick out side branches. Which in turn fill with flowers. But I'll just stop on that.

Now It looks 75/25 yellow to green. Two days later. Everything that is yellow is fresh growth that was not in the previous picture.

Two days of growth. Multiply by the rest of the plant.

What's inside the hole is now yellow meaning it's getting whatever stimulation it needs to keep on growing. You can see it pretend to fill in but it'll probably not filling because everything around it is growing so that hole will get bigger from a visual tracking perspective.

Those twisty top branches annoy me. It's really tough to get branches to turn around just by different light stimulation over 2 days. But I see growth. That's good enough for me. A week later I'll see a lot more if I ignore it, but if I watch it closely it'll just piss me off.

So now try to realize the total goal. A plant that grows within defined space. I wanted to grow wider when I want it and I want to grow vertical when I want it. I don't want to touch it anymore and I will never pull out buds, the only thing that will happen with this plant is I will occasionally change the lights and I will occasionally pivot it.

I want to do it with as little energy as possible.

Right now I'm running 125 w on the left approximately 8 in away from the tips which means that corner gets the barest of night light. That light is spreading that 125 w over approximately 3 square feet of face on the LED side and then losing that strength over those 8 in. And it even stimulates deeper past them. I'm just using that as the distance starting point.

That is the tiniest bit of light reaching that corner branch. Have I annoyed and emphasized enough? Just how little light I am letting anything get?

How does this compare with any other plant for production quantity? If my THC percentage is 1% (lowest of crap hemp) but my plant is a thousand times more volume (at least, this is way way beyond that when you think in three-dimensional space) how does that compare with anything else I could be doing with my time growing something else?

The other side is about 13 w at 8 in trying to cover about 3x3 of plant face from a rectangle 1/3 the size of the other light. And that side's doing ass kicking as well.

How low can it go? I've hit it. You can see the curl that I don't want to see. The sides are trying to reach to the center which means they find better light from above and I don't want that. I need to turn these up slightly just to get the pull out.

Okay, that's it.

Comments? Please.

Take care

 

[KG1]

The only question I can take out of that is how do you make leaves and branches grow sideways not upwards.

You can't even with light from the sides they are in tune with things like gravity and hormonal responses that sort of stop them.

We have to force a branch or leaf to turn the opposite way nature intended with training or ties but even then a leaf will do what a leaf does, although it will try and follow light it will also try to keep growing upwards.

You could put a light under the plant it will still not grow towards it for illustration. Other species may . A seedling may follow a single spot down or outward but eventually grow so many leaves it just grows upwards despite no lights above.

 

[SlingShot]

Can we get past what I was doing and now focus on what I am doing and will be doing?

I have told you you are right 100%. You have spent weeks telling me specific stuff that I was doing wrong and I initially ignored you just cuz I'm an asshole and then I'm like this guy knows what the hell he's doing so I did exactly what you told me to do. You told me to cut that shit out and I did.

Okay?

I'm not saying what you're saying is not of value right now. God damn it. You're giving real information that for some people might be critical stuff. I'm too old and stupid to actually absorb what you are telling me right now.

So if possible, I'd like to focus on tracking a couple of branches so we can watch the specific leaves and nodes generate as it's related to the power of the light and the distance of the light.

Please.

So here I have a spot of a branch where it's the lowest left back corner. It's been there 3 days and I started taking pictures 2 days ago and it's got a bit of growth and you can see the directionality of what grows.

You can also see that the foliage is mostly green with interspersed other color which I will just say yellow. It's green and yellow. Okay. No matter what the lights are, that's green and yellow coming even when it's red. Because I'll take a pictures when the red's on and say shit. I like the picture but I don't want the red. I'm keeping the picture and I'm going to post it occasionally.

With that blather out of the way so you will understand what I'm trying to see and track.

How about we examine this picture.


View attachment 2536727

Okay, green to yellow is about 50/50 with a slight heaviness to the green because it's green underneath, which really means 95 to 5 since it's only yellow on the new growth on the outside or on any new growth on the inside. But there's far more on the outside, so we get about 50/50 on the outside.

You've got a crevice. It's green inside there so it's been there a bit and it's not growing obviously in this picture.

And you've got the antler on top which is a mixture of true edge of branch topped multiple times after it was flowering for 2 months combined with a additional buds that I stripped and the bud branches turn into antlers.

They then they generate new nodes and kick out side branches. Which in turn fill with flowers. But I'll just stop on that.

View attachment 2536731


Now It looks 75/25 yellow to green. Two days later. Everything that is yellow is fresh growth that was not in the previous picture.

Two days of growth. Multiply by the rest of the plant.

What's inside the hole is now yellow meaning it's getting whatever stimulation it needs to keep on growing. You can see it pretend to fill in but it'll probably not filling because everything around it is growing so that hole will get bigger from a visual tracking perspective.

Those twisty top branches annoy me. It's really tough to get branches to turn around just by different light stimulation over 2 days. But I see growth. That's good enough for me. A week later I'll see a lot more if I ignore it, but if I watch it closely it'll just piss me off.

So now try to realize the total goal. A plant that grows within defined space. I wanted to grow wider when I want it and I want to grow vertical when I want it. I don't want to touch it anymore and I will never pull out buds, the only thing that will happen with this plant is I will occasionally change the lights and I will occasionally pivot it.

I want to do it with as little energy as possible.

Right now I'm running 125 w on the left approximately 8 in away from the tips which means that corner gets the barest of night light. That light is spreading that 125 w over approximately 3 square feet of face on the LED side and then losing that strength over those 8 in. And it even stimulates deeper past them. I'm just using that as the distance starting point.

That is the tiniest bit of light reaching that corner branch. Have I annoyed and emphasized enough? Just how little light I am letting anything get?

How does this compare with any other plant for production quantity? If my THC percentage is 1% (lowest of crap hemp) but my plant is a thousand times more volume (at least, this is way way beyond that when you think in three-dimensional space) how does that compare with anything else I could be doing with my time growing something else?

The other side is about 13 w at 8 in trying to cover about 3x3 of plant face from a rectangle 1/3 the size of the other light. And that side's doing ass kicking as well.

How low can it go? I've hit it. You can see the curl that I don't want to see. The sides are trying to reach to the center which means they find better light from above and I don't want that. I need to turn these up slightly just to get the pull out.

View attachment 2536739


Okay, that's it.

Comments? Please.

Take care

"comments please", the language, both thumbs up and lol emojis, the pics, it really is a strange looking plant, Halloween t-shirt print strange

 

[TestTime]

The only question I can take out of that is how do you make leaves and branches grow sideways not upwards.

You can't even with light from the sides they are in tune with things like gravity and hormonal responses that sort of stop them.

We have to force a branch or leaf to turn the opposite way nature intended with training or ties but even then a leaf will do what a leaf does, although it will try and follow light it will also try to keep growing upwards.

You could put a light under the plant it will still not grow towards it for illustration. Other species may . A seedling may follow a single spot down or outward but eventually grow so many leaves it just grows upwards despite no lights above.

I have been unable to figure it out. Gravity wins every time. You could do the best you can to give an attractive influence and you can do the best you can to get a hard block on the bottom which forces things to travel out. But beyond that you need physical manipulation.

I'm okay with that. Anything beyond the current situation is overkill. The current situation is Overkill but I'm good with that.It's just a matter of tuning it to go outward while it goes up.

Anytime something's on the bottom I would have unrolled it and pulled it down. But at this point I'm done touching it. I'm done damaging it. I'm letting it fill in whatever it has now. So the bottom is the bottom and it's done. Now. It's a matter of everything going vertically and slightly out.

Unless a face shoves out the bottom and then starts traveling which they do continuously. So the bottoms actually get bigger but not nearly as fast as the tops.

Simple as that. The top will take the top and it will be vertical. Everything on the side needs enough light to draw it in that direction as well as up which it will do by default.

And then it becomes a matter of how much are you going to spend for it. More light equals more draw which means more attraction up to whatever point. Less light equals direction the way you want down to the point there's not enough light and the light on another side or above pulls it at the wrong direction.

Also take into account stretching.

You actually want stretch now. Really. I'm talking the flower faces, not the Branch ends or antlers.

These are little flower stalks and if they stretch a bit before they're done, popping out the nodes down the stalk, you get more flower faces and tendrils. So give it some stretch. Give it some weakness in the light and let it suck it along for a bit without actually producing anything. Then sometime later you'll have more room for the side faces.