High THCV strains and breeding them

Moe.Red · Jan 17, 2021

The chemical structure of THCV is similar to THC, but it’s actually derived from an entirely different precursor. While most cannabinoids, including THC and CBD, are the byproducts of CBGA (cannabigerolic acid) synthesis, THCV is the final byproduct of CBGVA (cannabigerovarin acid). CBGV converts to THCVA, which eventually becomes THCV when exposed to heat or light. THCV is most commonly found in pure sativas originating in Africa, China, Nepal, Pakistan, India, Thailand, and Afghanistan.

We can only use other cannabinoid testing as a guide, but THCV is it's own animal.

Skeptik · Jan 17, 2021

Moe.Red said:
I'd like to hear your thoughts on this. I'm an electrical engineer in my other life and could build any form of light that exists in electrical parts.

Noted. My Raspberry Pi project could use some advice re: relays, etc., so it's nice to know a professional.

Moe.Red · Jan 17, 2021

Another question I have is how early is THCV formed in the plant cycle? Can I test a plant in Veg and determine if it is worth growing out or no? I can with THC and CBD, it would be really nice if I could reserve the flower tents for just the plants with promise and cull the low THCV plants while still in veg.

To this point, I have not found a significantly high THCV plant, so I do not know the answer. I will be testing on these JtR and Durban Poison seedings throughout their growth cycle, but I won't really know until flowering is complete. Since one of these tests takes 3 months from giddy up to woah, it makes sense to do everything you can think of up front. I have gone thru several "wasted" seasons of trying to grow THCV now with negligible result. At this rate our results will take years to accomplish.

My seedlings are Durban Poison feminized by Original Harvest Seeds purchased from Pacific Seed Bank LINK

and

Jack the Ripper from the same place LINK

Moe.Red · Jan 17, 2021

@Skeptik ,

I have a grow control project I am working on based on RP4. Just took it down and went back to old school for these runs because I had some issues with thee bluetooth connections that worried me. I'm reworking that software now. But the system hangs on the wall and replaces everything else to control the grow and adds PH dosing and a ton of data capturing. When I find the time, I'll nail that down and put them back on the tents.

3D Printed case, 10" TFT

Prototype and test bench

My multi purpose bench becomes an electronics lab when I need it to.

Love this stuff, but there are only so many hours in the day. I don't think a special grow controller will impact my search for THCV so I'm back burnering this project for the time being.

Milson · Jan 17, 2021

The more I think about it, the more I figure you take two different IBL or landrace girls with thcv, hit one of them with sts or whatever and make fem seeds, and search through those, you would either have some significantly high thcv phenos or you would have discovered something about the nature of the genetics behind its expression.

Really a one year project one would think.

Skeptik · Jan 17, 2021

Moe.Red said:
<snip> I will be testing on these JtR and Durban Poison seedings throughout their growth cycle,

This has the potential to answer a LOT of questions -- when/where and under what conditions is THCV synthesized?, etc. -- assuming you can identify a plant that has the genetics for higher-than-average THCV.

Skeptik · Jan 17, 2021

Milson said:
The more I think about it, the more I figure you take two different IBL or landrace girls with thcv, hit one of them with sts or whatever and make fem seeds, and search through those, you would either have some significantly high thcv phenos or you would have discovered something about the nature of the genetics behind its expression.

Really a one year project one would think.

I pretty much agree, IBL and/or landrace are the genetic key and @Moe.Red 's testing lab is a HUGE help. Problem is the first step: Which strains. Even Red's JtR is showing average conc of V and that strain is *advertised* as being relatively high. Hopefully something will come out of Red's Ace order.

Skeptik · Jan 17, 2021

Moe.Red said:
@Skeptik ,

I have a grow control project I am working on based on RP4. Just took it down and went back to old school for these runs because I had some issues with thee bluetooth connections that worried me. I'm reworking that software now. But the system hangs on the wall and replaces everything else to control the grow and adds PH dosing and a ton of data capturing. When I find the time, I'll nail that down and put them back on the tents.

Love this stuff, but there are only so many hours in the day. I don't think a special grow controller will impact my search for THCV so I'm back burnering this project for the time being.

Your setup is what I expected and you're clearly and "all in" kind of guy. ;-) Nice work. I'll be back with questions as I ramp up.

Milson · Jan 17, 2021

Skeptik said:
I pretty much agree, IBL and/or landrace are the genetic key and @Moe.Red 's testing lab is a HUGE help. Problem is the first step: Which strains. Even Red's JtR is showing average conc of V and that strain is *advertised* as being relatively high. Hopefully something will come out of Red's Ace order.

I would be point-blank shocked if the ethiopian has no significant thcv.

I bet the rsc stuff will have some too, but i think that stuff will be more variable because it's less worked.

Moe.Red · Jan 17, 2021

Milson said:
The more I think about it, the more I figure you take two different IBL or landrace girls with thcv, hit one of them with sts or whatever and make fem seeds, and search through those, you would either have some significantly high thcv phenos or you would have discovered something about the nature of the genetics behind its expression.

Really a one year project one would think.

I'm in assuming I do not go over my plant limit and I don't have to completely re-do my space.

In order to not go over my state's plant limit and still keep testing 12 in flower, I'll need a go/no go test for THCV in veg. So I will work to refine that process. Ideally I want to test a plant at all stages of growth and make sure the relative cannabinoid percentages do not change with growth stage. I know that to be reasonably true with THC and CBD, certainly enough to make early judgement calls. Lets hope it holds true for THCV. Seems like cannabinoids form early and the other cool stuff like terpenes comes later only once flower is initiated, although that is not 100% true for all terpenes.

I also have a mother tent that could be used in the breeding process. in a pinch, I could re-jigger my air dry setup, but I'd rather not.

Left is drying tent. Those are perforated aluminum baking sheets.

Middle is mom tent. I cleared it out recently because I am on the search for new genetics.

Right is veg tent. Picture does not do the plants justice, I'll get better pics soon.

I also have a tent that I use to grow mushrooms. In a pinch it could be used, but I do not want to consider that as part of this testing. I have different tests going on with the mushrooms. And microgreens.

Moe.Red · Jan 17, 2021

Milson said:
I would be point-blank shocked if the ethiopian has no significant thcv.

That is why I wanted to find a tested clone to start with. If I can't grow and/or detect THCV with known genetics, the problem is on my end and I can fix it. There is a minor possibility that this DB & JtR has good THCV and I am doing something wrong.

I'll tell you this tho - once I get a known mother, I'll be spreading that far and wide so others don't have the same struggle. I have no desire to keep proper genetics to myself. Unlike Monsanto, I do not believe people should get a patent on biology! I'll be like Oprah ... And YOU get a clone. And YOU get a clone. And yes, YOU get a clone too!!

growsince79 · Jan 17, 2021

Moe.Red said:
That is why I wanted to find a tested clone to start with. If I can't grow and/or detect THCV with known genetics, the problem is on my end and I can fix it. There is a minor possibility that this DB & JtR has good THCV and I am doing something wrong.

I'll tell you this tho - once I get a known mother, I'll be spreading that far and wide so others don't have the same struggle. I have no desire to keep proper genetics to myself. Unlike Monsanto, I do not believe people should get a patent on biology! I'll be like Oprah ... And YOU get a clone. And YOU get a clone. And yes, YOU get a clone too!!

I think if you want to breed high thcv you should try to copy mother nature best as possible. So lots of uva to mimic the mountain atmosphere, high humidity, and proper temps.

check out the monthly averages.

Moe.Red · Jan 17, 2021

growsince79 said:
I think if you want to breed high thcv you should try to copy mother nature best as possible. So lots of uva to mimic the mountain atmosphere, high humidity, and proper temps.

check out the monthly averages.

UVA is on it's way to me this week.

I'm not gonna do this, but I could actually read local conditions and make my tent the same as local.

It's 79 in Medellin, that's a good number for me for daytime setpoint. There have been studies showing that 82* under my conditions is the sweet spot for maximum growth. But I think this time we are gonna slow it all down a bit and see what mother nature does when left to her own devices.

I still plan to run CO2.

RH I typically follow the VPD chart, so I'll start out at 65% and 79* during transition to flower and lower it to 55% as they flower. Then we will listen to the plants at the end and see what they are asking for.

shaganja · Jan 17, 2021

shaganja said:
Willie Nelson has cbd input from the Nepal highland. If you want the thcv, the Vietnamese black is the reason the willie Nelson strain has it.

You know, I can't say I know this for certain. Because there is thcv found in Nepal also. So perhaps the Nepal carries both.

growsince79 · Jan 17, 2021

Moe.Red said:
UVA is on it's way to me this week.

I'm not gonna do this, but I could actually read local conditions and make my tent the same as local.

It's 79 in Medellin, that's a good number for me for daytime setpoint. There have been studies showing that 82* under my conditions is the sweet spot for maximum growth. But I think this time we are gonna slow it all down a bit and see what mother nature does when left to her own devices.

I still plan to run CO2.

RH I typically follow the VPD chart, so I'll start out at 65% and 79* during transition to flower and lower it to 55% as they flower. Then we will listen to the plants at the end and see what they are asking for.

View attachment 1080254

Max UV Index9 Very High

Moe.Red · Jan 17, 2021

growsince79 said:
Max UV Index9 Very High

I'm thinking HIDs on at 9:00 AM off at 9:00 PM.
UVA on 11:00PM to 7:00PM

LINK is what is on the way - (2) 4' 30W UVA

These are well constructed units with a crystal glass lens cover to protect the diodes and allow for cleaning. The all aluminum frame dissipates what little heat the bar creates. At 30 watts the Lightbar sips energy too.

We recommend 2 per 4x4 grow area for ideal plant response. We recommend no more than 2-12 hours per day of continuous UVA on canopy, depending on desired effects. This unit will not produce harmful energy for long light periods.

385nm UVA

Milson · Jan 17, 2021

Moe.Red said:
I'm thinking HIDs on at 9:00 AM off at 9:00 PM.
UVA on 11:00PM to 7:00PM

LINK is what is on the way - (2) 4' 30W UVA

These are well constructed units with a crystal glass lens cover to protect the diodes and allow for cleaning. The all aluminum frame dissipates what little heat the bar creates. At 30 watts the Lightbar sips energy too.

We recommend 2 per 4x4 grow area for ideal plant response. We recommend no more than 2-12 hours per day of continuous UVA on canopy, depending on desired effects. This unit will not produce harmful energy for long light periods.

385nm UVA

I would flower at 11/13 with anything equatorial.

growsince79 · Jan 17, 2021

Milson said:
I would flower at 11/13 with anything equatorial.

That might keep em more manageable. IDK if they would finish any faster or not. I'm told my colombian plants get ripe at different times. Some are ripe a month before others. Some start to flower @ 6' and others don't even start until 4 months and 10' tall. Almost like hours of darkness doesn't even matter since its always 12-12 +-15min. Hopefully I can do some experiments and see.

Moe.Red · Jan 17, 2021

Milson said:
I would flower at 11/13 with anything equatorial.

Short light and Far Red? Seems a bit much, they don't need that much sleep.

Milson · Jan 17, 2021

Moe.Red said:
Short light and Far Red? Seems a bit much, they don't need that much sleep.

Maybe you are right. Like i said, just what I do with equatorial strains.

High THCV strains and breeding them

High THCV strains and breeding them

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High THCV strains and breeding them

High THCV strains and breeding them

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