High THCV strains and breeding them

[Brendanpre]

flu restrictions keeping everyone out.

You guys are lucky. Here in South Africa flu restrictions have banned ALL alcohol sales. You can't even have a drink at home unless you still have some stock from before the ban or make your own... Needless to say my weed consumption has gone up considerably...

 

[Brendanpre]

I've been following this thread with interest since the beggining. I think almost everything that has been said so far has merit and I agree with a lot of it in theory. The bottom line is that we don't even know what we have at this point. Look at the TLC tests of Jack the Ripper, supposed to be a high thcv strain but the tests don't agree.

To my mind the first step should be growing out plants until we find a solid source of thcv. The breeding methodology is a moot point until we have that. I think the results of the first grow will dictate where we go. If we have a number of plants that have higher than "normal" thcv we can progress by selecting and refining with the crosses, whether it be multiple lines, back crossing, etc. On the other hand if we only find one noteworthy plant, we have shifted the goals somewhat and will have to proceed differently, selfing for example, or maybe an open pollination of a select group of "maybes" might be enough to bring up the thcv levels of the progeny?

At this stage we are working with a lot of unknowns and my gut says to just grow the seeds until we know we have. Once we are there, and we know what we have, we can iron out the kinks in the breeding methodology and work on optimizing conditions for thcv production, until then we are just spinning our wheels ;-)

I have a feeling that just finding plants with significant thcv production is going to be the hardest part of this journey.

 

[TripsRabbit]

I know how we can tell if they're high in THCV. Everyone can grow out their plants and then just send me a sample. I'll put it in my vaporizer and if I get a really long up high without the munchies I'll report back...

 

[TripsRabbit]

I know how we can tell if they're high in THCV. Everyone can grow out their plants and then just send me a sample. I'll put it in my vaporizer and if I get a really long up high without the munchies I'll report back...

What, I wasn't joking?

 

[TripsRabbit]

Maybe heat from the lights/sun has something to do with THCV production @Moe.Red Do you have all LED lights or do you have any HPS or HID?
It woukd be interesting to do a side by side with the different lights once we find a plant with THCV in it. Then we could see if the old school or new school would be better, worse, or the same as far as THCV production.

Just wasted $2000 on LEDS (or) WHY LEDS suck

It's all about those temperatures. Low temperatures = low biological activity = low growth. Flowers especially seem to demand heat. I just switched over. I heard from others that the loss of heat from the HID lamps was one of the biggest adjustments. I look forward to my summer crop.

www.thcfarmer.com

 

[Skeptik]

I've been following this thread with interest since the beggining. I think almost everything that has been said so far has merit and I agree with a lot of it in theory. The bottom line is that we don't even know what we have at this point. Look at the TLC tests of Jack the Ripper, supposed to be a high thcv strain but the tests don't agree.

To my mind the first step should be growing out plants until we find a solid source of thcv. The breeding methodology is a moot point until we have that. I think the results of the first grow will dictate where we go. If we have a number of plants that have higher than "normal" thcv we can progress by selecting and refining with the crosses, whether it be multiple lines, back crossing, etc. On the other hand if we only find one noteworthy plant, we have shifted the goals somewhat and will have to proceed differently, selfing for example, or maybe an open pollination of a select group of "maybes" might be enough to bring up the thcv levels of the progeny?

At this stage we are working with a lot of unknowns and my gut says to just grow the seeds until we know we have. Once we are there, and we know what we have, we can iron out the kinks in the breeding methodology and work on optimizing conditions for thcv production, until then we are just spinning our wheels ;-)

I have a feeling that just finding plants with significant thcv production is going to be the hardest part of this journey.

You've landed on the same spot that most of us have: Procuring verifiable genetics that produce significant levels of THCV is the key starting point. The good news is we have among us most of the landrace genetics that are strong possibilities, and Moe.Red has taken the leap for THC-Victory, which should dramatically shortcut the first part of the search.

 

[Moe.Red]

I've been following this thread with interest since the beggining. I think almost everything that has been said so far has merit and I agree with a lot of it in theory. The bottom line is that we don't even know what we have at this point. Look at the TLC tests of Jack the Ripper, supposed to be a high thcv strain but the tests don't agree.

To my mind the first step should be growing out plants until we find a solid source of thcv. The breeding methodology is a moot point until we have that. I think the results of the first grow will dictate where we go. If we have a number of plants that have higher than "normal" thcv we can progress by selecting and refining with the crosses, whether it be multiple lines, back crossing, etc. On the other hand if we only find one noteworthy plant, we have shifted the goals somewhat and will have to proceed differently, selfing for example, or maybe an open pollination of a select group of "maybes" might be enough to bring up the thcv levels of the progeny?

At this stage we are working with a lot of unknowns and my gut says to just grow the seeds until we know we have. Once we are there, and we know what we have, we can iron out the kinks in the breeding methodology and work on optimizing conditions for thcv production, until then we are just spinning our wheels ;-)

I have a feeling that just finding plants with significant thcv production is going to be the hardest part of this journey.

I think this post summarizes where I have landed as well. I'm having private debates with myself, but right now I am landed on doing 6 THCvic females and grow them to fully ripe "unmolested" meaning a perfect grow from start to finish without pollen, dissimilar plants, or efforts to change conditions to test. Of course I will take clones from each prior to flower so we have the genetics saved. then TLC test all 6 along the way and find the best one(s) for further manipulation. I also have Durban Poison, Jack the Ripper, Afghan and a couple others in the veg tent that will also be flowered along side. One can hope.

With 6 fully THC Victory (henceforth known as TVic because I'm sick of typing it out) flowered plants, if I hit the jackpot and they are all high THCv as advertised, there will be plenty to share. Human trials could begin much sooner if we are lucky.

I'm about 85% sure this is the approach I will take at this point.

I've started a google doc that I will share soon that will contain the testing process, progress, and results as we go to make it a bit cleaner than digging thru this whole thread for bits and pieces.

 

[Moe.Red]

Maybe heat from the lights/sun has something to do with THCV production @Moe.Red Do you have all LED lights or do you have any HPS or HID?
It woukd be interesting to do a side by side with the different lights once we find a plant with THCV in it. Then we could see if the old school or new school would be better, worse, or the same as far as THCV production.

Just wasted $2000 on LEDS (or) WHY LEDS suck

It's all about those temperatures. Low temperatures = low biological activity = low growth. Flowers especially seem to demand heat. I just switched over. I heard from others that the loss of heat from the HID lamps was one of the biggest adjustments. I look forward to my summer crop.

www.thcfarmer.com

I have 1 flower tent set up with 3 HID (600W, 1000W, 600W)
and
1 flower tent set up with LED (2x Optic 8+)

Additionally, I have supplemental Far Red (2 4' 30W strips) and UVA (2 4' 30W strips) with the ability to set any schedule.

I can measure PPFD of both visible and Far Red. I'm working on expanding the range of my spectrometer to see UV and FR as well. This will be important for documentation of any spectrum tests we do.

I'm game to test any environmental variable once we have a baseline.

 

[Skeptik]

As I posted my earlier reply, it occurred to me that we haven't listed our inventory of promising strains. Might be a good idea to get those out in the open to stimulate ideas for crosses. Here's what I have:

Kilimanjaro (World of Seeds)
Malawi (Ace Seeds)
S. African Kwazulu (World of Seeds)
Wild Thailand (World of Seeds)

These are strains that are between sativa/indica and have promise as hybrids to potentially shorten flowering time and increase yield:

Lebanese Hashplant (collected from fields)
Pakistani-Chitral-Kush (Cannibiogen)

 

[Skeptik]

I've been following this thread with interest since the beggining. I think almost everything that has been said so far has merit and I agree with a lot of it in theory. The bottom line is that we don't even know what we have at this point. Look at the TLC tests of Jack the Ripper, supposed to be a high thcv strain but the tests don't agree.

To my mind the first step should be growing out plants until we find a solid source of thcv. The breeding methodology is a moot point until we have that. I think the results of the first grow will dictate where we go. If we have a number of plants that have higher than "normal" thcv we can progress by selecting and refining with the crosses, whether it be multiple lines, back crossing, etc. On the other hand if we only find one noteworthy plant, we have shifted the goals somewhat and will have to proceed differently, selfing for example, or maybe an open pollination of a select group of "maybes" might be enough to bring up the thcv levels of the progeny?

At this stage we are working with a lot of unknowns and my gut says to just grow the seeds until we know we have. Once we are there, and we know what we have, we can iron out the kinks in the breeding methodology and work on optimizing conditions for thcv production, until then we are just spinning our wheels ;-)

I have a feeling that just finding plants with significant thcv production is going to be the hardest part of this journey.

It's worth noting, though, that you are in the heart of alleged THCV land. Do you have access to some to the landrace strains we hear are promiing; e.g. Swazi, Durban Poison (the landrace, not the dutch), Kwazulu, others? You could become our best friend!

 

[Milson]

My wife convinced me to order some New Caledonia seeds from Ace (no THCV but lots of interest) and I added in an Ethiopian on top of that. My goal is going to be to find a good Ethiopian dad because I think that would be a very interesting breeding piece as I am experimenting in sativa land.

Assuming the seeds make it, I will be dropping a few Ethiopians in the next month or so. Again, looking for a male more than anything because I think it would be cool and TLC testing makes it possible.

Other strains that are maybes are Acid Dough (via the Congo side) from Ripper Seeds, Mel Frank's heirloom Durban, Caribe from Cannabiogen, Mekong Haze from Delta 9 labs, and maybe Maui Wowie from ILGM.

 

[Moe.Red]

I’d love to get some pollen from you guys when you get it. Thinking about putting several interesting pollens on the branches of the best Vic from round 1. Pass those seeds around and see if we got any winners.

 

[Moe.Red]

I was just talking to my friend @MrToad in PM, and I thought I would say this out loud.

I think we will have a massive grow effort in about 6 months. Spread seeds far and wide to see what phenos we get in the shortest possible time.

You know what, I'm gonna post this for everyone.

I want to crowdsource the crap out of this project. If every competent grower here just grew one seed for us, we could have all the phenos tested in 1 cycle, right?

 

[Moe.Red]

You know, we could have seeds out of this first run too... If we could find the right pollen now.

 

[Skeptik]

I’d love to get some pollen from you guys when you get it. Thinking about putting several interesting pollens on the branches of the best Vic from round 1. Pass those seeds around and see if we got any winners.

I'm thinking this might be the way to go. Those participating who have the space can grow out several individuals of a strain (however many make sense), select the outstanding female, reverse it, and send the fem pollen to Red. Seems like it would streamline the process for Red and keep his plant count under control.

I'm 2-4 weeks away from Wild Thai (WoS) fem pollen from 2 nice individuals. Here's the WoS description of interest:

"This is a cannabis plant with very high THC content. Highly valued by Asian growers for production and resistance to pests. Its powerful Sativa genetic and sweet taste, you will travel to the heart of Bangkok. THC Level: 22.3% measured upon the rest of cannabinoids.(taking an account THCV too), 9.7 % measured upon the rest of organic substances belonging to buds like: aminoacids, sugars, terpenoids, vegetal hormones, and cannabinoids (determined by gas chromatography coupled with mass spectrometry)."

There's a lot of marketing BS in there, but it uses the right terminology at least.

I failed to list some other recent acquisitions that might be promising. These are all alleged to be long-flowering (like 16 week), tropical sativas:

S. Indian Sativa Landrace (hand collected from live plants)
Costa Rica Sativa Landrace (hand collected from live plants)
SE Asian Sativa Landrace (hand collected)

And, my most recent purchase:

Mad Villian (Hoku seeds)

 

[Moe.Red]

It's like a candy store with you guys.

 

[Skeptik]

I was just talking to my friend @MrToad in PM, and I thought I would say this out loud.

I think we will have a massive grow effort in about 6 months. Spread seeds far and wide to see what phenos we get in the shortest possible time.

You know what, I'm gonna post this for everyone.

I want to crowdsource the crap out of this project. If every competent grower here just grew one seed for us, we could have all the phenos tested in 1 cycle, right?

Now your talking. I believe we're on the same page. Let's go!

 

[Moe.Red]

How many growers would / should participate?

If I lived on Murder Mountain I'd just grow all the seeds out myself! How fun would that be.

 

[Moe.Red]

Pshhh

You got this.

Had to buy a filter from Germany, but I have all the other parts right here in my hot little hands. This is like a little side quest in a cool video game.

 

[Milson]

Had to buy a filter from Germany, but I have all the other parts right here in my hot little hands. This is like a little side quest in a cool video game.

As i was writing this, i was thinking "he does totally have this, this is probably child's play level tinkering for him."