BUSTALUNG said:

I've heard lemon juice and I've heard vinegar and I've heard people say the used it and it didn't work. Are you speaking from experience or from hearing. Do you use pure lemon juice? I've heard the store bought lemon juice ain't worth a shit. I would like to know from somebody that actually uses it

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I use vinegar (white - 5% acidity) and have no problems with stability. Let me get real specific so others get an idea of what I am working with rather than just saying, "I use vinegar". I have 5 gallon buckets with 8" net pots. It takes 3 gallons of liquid to get the level to the bottom of the net pot. The solution/nutes is a combination of water, SMS-90, and Regen brand "Grow" (). I use "Grow" because I know the guy that makes it and they make it on site in my area. I am lazy and don't own a R/O filter and don't bother with letting jugs of tap water sit for 24-48 hours before using.

About once a week, I change out the bucket. To do so, I lift the growing plant/net pot out, put it on top of an empty bucket, drain the bucket, clean, put it back in the growing area and make another batch of solution.
I take a 5-gallon bucket, put an empty net pot on top, take the shower hose attachment and fill to the bottom of the net pot. Then I add the SMS-90 and Grow, take a whisk and mix, and add vinegar to drop the pH (my tap water starts at about 8.0 pH and I add about a tablespoon of vinegar). I put the plant back on top of its bucket in the growing area and then pour the new solution over the growing media so that I can cover all of the media (Grow Stones) with the solution and walk away. I just checked the pH of one of the buckets before writing this and after one week, the pH is still where I want it.

I spent a year once working in a college chemistry lab when I was studying chemistry in college (I am NOT a chemist). Late one night, I needed to adjust the pH and the stores were all closed and even Amazon could not deliver anything on time....so, I used my old knowledge of vinegar vs. baking soda and have been happy ever since. And the vinegar makes a great bi bim bop sauce!! I have very serious epilepsy and would rather use vinegar/lemon than battery acid:) But maybe if I had finished that chemistry degree, I would have those concerns:))

I'll bne doing water PH in batches. I have three, five-gallon, food-grade buckets to put water in. Let it sit 24 hours, check the PH (in my area the average PH out of the tap is 9 so some white vinegar is in order). Vinegar makes it a lot easier to ease the water to a given PH level. Battery acid scares me. What other chemicals are in it?

White Vinegar for ph down. Baking soda, sodium bicarbonate for up. Simple, cheap, works for me. Hardly need any up by adding molasses, which by itself is acidic.

tom harrison said:

I use vinegar (white - 5% acidity) and have no problems with stability. Let me get real specific so others get an idea of what I am working with rather than just saying, "I use vinegar". I have 5 gallon buckets with 8" net pots. It takes 3 gallons of liquid to get the level to the bottom of the net pot. The solution/nutes is a combination of water, SMS-90, and Regen brand "Grow" (). I use "Grow" because I know the guy that makes it and they make it on site in my area. I am lazy and don't own a R/O filter and don't bother with letting jugs of tap water sit for 24-48 hours before using.

About once a week, I change out the bucket. To do so, I lift the growing plant/net pot out, put it on top of an empty bucket, drain the bucket, clean, put it back in the growing area and make another batch of solution.
I take a 5-gallon bucket, put an empty net pot on top, take the shower hose attachment and fill to the bottom of the net pot. Then I add the SMS-90 and Grow, take a whisk and mix, and add vinegar to drop the pH (my tap water starts at about 8.0 pH and I add about a tablespoon of vinegar). I put the plant back on top of its bucket in the growing area and then pour the new solution over the growing media so that I can cover all of the media (Grow Stones) with the solution and walk away. I just checked the pH of one of the buckets before writing this and after one week, the pH is still where I want it.

I spent a year once working in a college chemistry lab when I was studying chemistry in college (I am NOT a chemist). Late one night, I needed to adjust the pH and the stores were all closed and even Amazon could not deliver anything on time....so, I used my old knowledge of vinegar vs. baking soda and have been happy ever since. And the vinegar makes a great bi bim bop sauce!! I have very serious epilepsy and would rather use vinegar/lemon than battery acid:) But maybe if I had finished that chemistry degree, I would have those concerns:))

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so long as its not malt its good mate. i have personally used organic Brown Rice Vinegar, and Apple Cider Vinegar as a solvent. It works extremely well and can be made by anyone with Google and time and a few low cost components.
I have also used a Citric acid, but this I rarely use but for last resorts. The only reason is the plants have a citric acid system themselves, the KREB cycle, otherwise known as the citric cycle. It is my expressed understanding that plants can make their own citric acid and so I personally worry that any added would tip what might be a delicate balance out of favor. I further submit that overdosing Citric acid, would have severe consequences for the outcome flavor of the product.

I put a link here to Khan school, anyone bothered enough can go there to learn about the TCA cycle and make their own mind up.

I might add, in nature it is ratios of bacteria to fungus that typically help regulate media pH :-)

Ecompost said:

so long as its not malt its good mate.

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Yeah, malt vinegar would have a lot of carbs, which would mess with PH in weird ways.

FenderSuper said:

Battery acid scares me. What other chemicals are in it?

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Batter electrolyte, also known as battery acid, is virgin, high purity sulfuric acid diluted to ~33% H2SO4 in deionized water.

Quantrill said:

Batter electrolyte, also known as battery acid, is virgin, high purity sulfuric acid diluted to ~33% H2SO4 in deionized water.

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Thank you! I'll still stick with white vinegar. Easier to control.

We could always turn to "Coke" it's PH is pretty low, plus carbs. Win/Win

I'm amazed by the ignorance of so many.

Dan789 said:

We could always turn to "Coke" it's PH is pretty low, plus carbs. Win/Win

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It's the real thing.

Phosphoric acid for PH down, it gives phosphorus to plants.

KOH for PH up, it gives potassium.

Works great.

Kot said:

Phosphoric acid for PH down, it gives phosphorus to plants.

KOH for PH up, it gives potassium.

Works great.

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This is true, but sulphuric is so much less expensive, readily available, and plants also use sulphur. Honestly, the amounts we're talking about are trivial if not completely inconsequential... unless you're doing something wrong. So the choice of which acid really dilutes down to what one can get for how much money and directly proportional to how rich and lazy one is.

Dirte Bag said:

This is true, but sulphuric is so much less expensive, readily available, and plants also use sulphur. Honestly, the amounts we're talking about are trivial if not completely inconsequential... unless you're doing something wrong. So the choice of which acid really dilutes down to what one can get for how much money and directly proportional to how rich and lazy one is.

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Here in Bulgaria both acids are the same price. $5 for 1 liter "pure for analysis" grade.

Kot said:

Here in Bulgaria both acids are the same price. $5 for 1 liter "pure for analysis" grade.

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In America common automotive 5.77 liters of battery acid is available at any local auto parts store for around $26. It's a 33.5% concentration so roughly $14/liter. Both the 98% H2SO4 and 85% food grade phosphoric are $27.12/quart online from Duda.

Kot said:

Phosphoric acid for PH down, it gives phosphorus to plants.

KOH for PH up, it gives potassium.

Works great.

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isnt the dude organic? he cant use PhosAcid if he is sadly bro and if one already has P in feeds, adding more is to literally widen the pool of fixed P in the media, meaning one must add ever larger soluble pools which also compound the matter. Phosphate pollution is a serious problem for water systems.
Here is a useful link explaining P in soils

pH up could be achieved using a garden lime, or humate salt which would qualify in organic systems and would boost levels of S enhancing flavor outcomes without risking fungal mass damage which ultimately impacts soil structure. Using a quality humic acid would boost the media's ability to retain water, through the exchangeable benefit of humic acid, and so this could mean watering less, reducing any acids used overall and additionally.
Simply adding compost would act as a pH balancer, but I guess the dude wants to add it to water as a solvent, e.g. preventing the binding and loss of essential elements he might otherwise be having issues with, and so both K-Humic Acid and or Compost wouldnt work with overly frequent application, lime, woodashes for top dressing, same thing, and for down using Sulphur would introduce an anti fungicide aspect, great if you have some bad fungus, not so great if you have spent money on Mycos.
Equally you could use Copper Sulfate as down if one is going to use Sulphur, why not Copper, since it is an essential element for flowering plants, again its an antifungicide with potential toxin overflow for bees and other pollinating insects? Both S and CuSo qualify in most organic systems world wide for now at least.
Lets not forget, the world already has a Sulphur cycle and a Phosphorous cycle, to go with the Nitrogen cycle, this is in balance, and we ruin it by applications of these things without really understanding the sum total of good soil to deliver these things and or the net consequences of our additions. It is this smple reality of CHNOPS and biogeochemical cycles, that underpins my decision to grow organic myself.

You could use a Lactic Acid based solution to lower pH, but if the problem is pH9 tap water, the better option I think longer term would be to filter the water via RO, or use rain water collection.
Perhaps better long term solutions lay in successful phenotyping, selecting those strains that just grow where you are and stop growing plants that dont, not using too much P, S or N, heavy soil cations such as those in Lime, known to cause compaction in clay based profiles, since these really arent sustainable based on todays levels of understanding let alone tomorrow.

jofo said:

Food grade white vinegar or apple cider vinegar for ph down.

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Please don’t use vinegar very often. Contains acetic acid, which converts to acetaldehydes, to much is bad for plants. Lemon juice in a pinch, battery acid(sulphuric acid) does work, but can build up sulphate and sulphate salts. However phosphoric acid is the most benign for your girls. Breaks down into phosphate compounds which plants use, without causing high levels of salts.
RR1

RR1 said:

Please don’t use vinegar very often. Contains acetic acid, which converts to acetaldehydes, to much is bad for plants. Lemon juice in a pinch, battery acid(sulphuric acid) does work, but can build up sulphate and sulphate salts. However phosphoric acid is the most benign for your girls. Breaks down into phosphate compounds which plants use, without causing high levels of salts.
RR1

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Using diluted sulphuric acid properly to adjust water pH will not cause "sulphate buildup". Plants use sulphur, it's a necessary nutrient.

Dirte Bag said:

Using diluted sulphuric acid properly to adjust water pH will not cause "sulphate buildup". Plants use sulphur, it's a necessary nutrient.

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True, but all acids can cause salts to form. It’s part of their innate physical properties. Phosphoric has more compounds that plants like. That’s why they removed phosphates from detergents many years ago. Runoff was causing lakes and rivers to bloom with algae.
However, I used Sulfuric for years with no apparent ill effects. Just don’t pour it out of a battery.LOL

jofo said:

Food grade white vinegar or apple cider vinegar for ph down.

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Can use baking soda for ph up

SharkLasko said:

Can use baking soda for ph up

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yes you can, but you run a risk of raising overall Alkalinity and you have to use quite a bit to get a pH increase, you might try Silica

Ecompost said:

yes you can, but you run a risk of raising overall Alkalinity and you have to use quite a bit to get a pH increase, you might try Silica

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Potassium Hydroxide (KOH) also known as lye, is ideal for pH adjustments. It's beneficial, safe, and easy to use.