How To Not Make a Million Dollars in the Weed Business

  • Thread starter SoCoMMJ
  • Start date
  • Tagged users None
S

SoCoMMJ

313
28
Although I will stay true to my statement (and I think it is quite obvious) that MMC shops and the overabundance of the weed supply has lowered the price of marijuana here in CO. In fact almost all of the legal MMJ states have seen a huge drop in prices. And prices continue to fall.

The businessman in me does not much like the falling prices. We have rent to pay, employees, etc etc. The profit margins are much thinner than people think for an MMC. You would be sick if you saw the gross vs my personal net. I guarantee you that I made less than I pay my employees, and I don't pay them much. Pretty sure it works out to well under minimum wage to me for the hours invested. Remember, a farmer works 365 days a year.

The humanist thinks that it can't be bad for the prices to come down. When people are sick they usually aren't working. Medicaid isn't covering cannabis last I heard. It's an herb for crying out loud. It should go for a few dollars a pound. Governmental retardation is the only thing pumping up the price.

Lower prices are also pressuring the marginal shops to shape up or ship out.. we are seeing lots of that happening in the last few months. The market in Colorado Springs is tough. There are way too many shops to support the patient base.

Below are some numbers that should make those thinking about jumping in to perhaps rethink the glory of owning an MMC:

125+ Colorado Springs MMCs for 12,000 patients in El Paso County. That probably leaves maybe 8,000 in Co Springs proper. 64 average per shop, if every patient used an MMC[which they don't].

If each patient averages 1/2oz a month at $100 these days that is $6400 gross/month. 32 ounces at $2200[contract price per lb] that leaves [6400-4400]= $3,000 for rent, utilities, insurance, payroll, fees, random crap and a sliver of profit[?].

Now factor in some dickheads like me that are hoggin' up the patients. If I'm pushing 300 signed patients and at least that many more unsigned patients, now all of a sudden the average numbers go down even further for the remaining shops.

With all those patients we should be golden, right? Nope, you have to factor $7k in payroll to support the volumes, $6k in Rent and utilities... you get the idea. Hell, just lunch for the crew runs a grand or so a month.

Do a little math. You can actually see that MMC owners are not typically rolling in a new BMW. While I'm not proclaiming a failure at business by any means, I'm just trying to say that the pot at the end of the rainbow is filled with turkey sandwiches, not gold. At least Turkey sandwiches are delicious.

Oh,there is that little bit of satisfaction from helping out some sick people too...
 
LeroyBrown

LeroyBrown

193
18
Amen....Broke as a joke and working 70 hours a week....:help: People act like i make a fortune
 
P

PoopyCoopy

116
18
i've asked this before but whats the profit margin selling $150 oz of herb in a retail environment.

I don't see how too many people are legally getting rich off this without working hard at it.
 
Tobor the 8th Man

Tobor the 8th Man

Supporter
2,500
163
Outdoors in non med state, flying solo, makes my world turn nicely.
 
GreenThumbBill

GreenThumbBill

909
93
Yup, MJ is a bubble. "Prohibition makes anything precious."--Mark Twain

I always hear growers talk about legalization and wonder what they think is going to happen if it becomes legal. They are out of a job, that's what. The sad truth is that the only reason any of us are able to make a living growing is because of prohibition.

The only people that benefit from legalization are the people who buy it and growers/smokers/distributors who get busted. So, unfortunately if you want to make more money selling MJ, vote for Newt! It's a terrible quandary.
 
P

PoopyCoopy

116
18
so now its a business and you need more realistic goals like make $50k a year being self employed.

Cannabis follows free market economics more then a lot of other things.
 
eyecandi

eyecandi

327
28
SoCO, you forgot about all the fun with taxes too! the MMJ industry here is taxed at a rate and level only seen by companies pulling a million $+. the forms and requirements will make a standard CFO choke. and with sooooooo little $$, it's amazing how many stick their necks out with licensing when the feds can come in at any moment (and also get the fun of being demonized by people who have no clue who you are). there are just as many douches on the business side as there is on the BM side, it's sorting em out that is a pain.
 
K

kolah

4,829
263
SOCOMMJ and others, I'll try to make this short as I could go on for days....

SOCOMMJ, I do not sugar-coat things so here it is, straight up, bro. If you are making less than your employees you are failing in your business ventures, pure and simple.

I ran a chiropractic business (solo) for 20+ years. It was no picnic. Yes, in my good years (pre 911) I made great money but never had any free time to enjoy it. When things got tight I had to make adjustments. And when things started to go downhill I decided to sell everything and cash in my chips. It got old shoveling the walkways, plowing driveways, cleaning bathrooms, hiring and firing, training, doing my books, donating time to the community, etc, etc and not to mention dealing with customers who had a host of ailments and problems. Hell no, it's not easy and non-business people do not realize what goes on behind the scenes. It is said you can not be a "nice guy" and run a sucessful business and I think there is some truth to that. As a businessman your number one job is to MAKE MONEY. Yeah it's nice to say I love my work but if you ain't making a profit you are basically fucked. One must be business-smart and have business saavy but that doesn't mean you have to be a prick about things. And do not spend ALL your friggn profits either, lol. (easier said than done)

I see and hear about some MMJ club owners going broke and then I have seen other guys making bigass bucks and riding the gravytrain. Some of the highly successful ones are scum but some folks are doing it honestly and professionally. But the latter ones have some business knowledge which covers everything form overhead costs to patient relationships. One can be an expert MJ grower but without business skills they have a high rate of failure. IMO there is no such thing as LUCK when running a business. It's hard fucking work and either you go balls-to-the-walls or you say fuck it. I stopped keeping track of my "working hours" as it was too overwhelming for me. Fuck man, I just wanted to a chiro, adjust spines, collect money and go home and party. No one told me how to be a bossman, how to run an office and especially not a business that had 6-7 employees.

Overhead will kill you. (this should have been thought about and put into your business plan documents) Adjust accordingly. There are always ways to save money. ALWAYS! But sometimes saving money will cost you YOUR time. It's a balance thing and fine tune it to your likes/dislikes. Utilities will continue to rise. There are many ways to cut costs. Think of investing in solar panels, solar heating, ect. In summer think about gowing some of your MJ outdoors. Think about driving a less expensive vehicle.

Employees. Screen them out with a passion. There is no sense hiring and training an idiot or two (been there, donme that) You want people you can trust and get things done without holding their fucking hand. Running a successful business is teamwork. Get team members who mesh into your vision. I liked to have incentives for my employees. Incentives get employees motivated and they can increase your sales while promoting your business. You can offer a smaller hourly wage and add incentive programs. Yes, in the end you may pay them more but they will generate more overall revenue for you. Keep employees part-time and do not pay for sick days, holidays and all that jazz. In the MMJ business I think a great incentive program would be to reward employees with MJ as their bonus. Hell, you may even consider paying your employees MMJ for a large portion of their entire salary (of course for legal/tax reasons you'd have to show some employee pay-out on your books). If you grow your own I would imagine it would cost you less to pay them in MMJ than paying them in dollars and cents. I also found buying my employees lunch or taking them out for the night was a nice "thank you" and they really appreciated it. Sometimes some of the little things go a long way.


OK, so here we are. In CO. Let's look into the future. Most business failures that end up in the red never see it coming. By the time they realize they are in deep shit it is far too late to bail out or save that sinking ship. I am sure most of you agree that MJ sales prices will continue to go down. IMO that's a given. As a MMJ boss/owner what adjustments will you make? That is the question. We all know prices of EVERYTHING will continue to rise (food, gas, utilities, supplies etc) except weed, lol. Do nothing and die. Do something and you may float above the red temporaly. But if you really attack it and make the correct adjustments you will kick ass. Taking business seminars and buying business operation books are often great tools to hone you skills.

If anyone is running a business and just breaking even or barely making a profit it's time to throw in the towel and take a job flipping burgers OR sit down and make serious adjustments. Lay out numbers and goals and plans how to obtain them. Have weekly or monthy meeting with employess and keep everyone on the same page. Have your goals (quotas set) and discuss it openly.

Talk with other successful MMJ club owners and find out what they are doing to make their profits. You will find that some of the most successful people have failed once or twice before (ie Donald "King of the Comb-over" Trump and money-guru Dave Ramsey). Pick the brains of the successful ones and avoid the failing ones as they will drag you down.

I know some folks like to give away their products for free. Let me tell you that it is a huge mistake to do so. The only exception is when you are making a comfortable profit. DO NOT GIVE AWAY FREE SHIT when you are trying to make a profit. When I was a young buck I was told this many years ago but I did not listen. I quickly learned that the freebie give-aways were NOT good business saavy (unless you are making a nice profit). In this day and age do not dismiss bartering with folks. I posted a list on the wall of my waiting room area that listed what items I was willing to barter spinal adjustments for
(eggs, horse hay, tools, lawnwork etc)...just make sure it is a fair exchange so no one feels ripped off.

I think I am the minority here in that I have respect for some MMJ clubs and owners. IMO not all MMJ shops are pricky scoundrels who sell moldy buds. Hell, I have seen undergrounders selling shitweed and overchanging people.

I do not know enough about all the friggin rules and regs to operate a MMJ shop but it scares the fuck out of me to even dwell on the thought. Pay thousands of dollars per year for a fucking MMJ license? Then give up and sign away many of your rights? Then rent a huge building to grow in? Then heat and cool the place? Then hire boobs to work for you who might steal your weed and give out "deals" to their buddies. Then pay outrageous taxes? Then find out you can not even deduct your business expenses?? WTF??? How about having paperwork overload where everything needs to be tagged, marked, inventoried, counted and recounted, etc? And finally after jumping through all the fucking hoops you still have to lay in bed at night wondering if a fed SWAT team will be kickng down your door? Or coming to work one day and finding the feds took all my shit including all my grow equipment?

Honestly, me thinks the underground is the ONLY way to go... But hey, that's just me.

For all my rantings, I do wish you good luck and great success, SOCOMMJ.

*revised one million times for typos and spelling errors.
 
C

ColoraDro

Guest
Only thing keeping prices low are dumb growers with garbage weed that have champagne dreams with Pepsi pockets.... People need to realize the Mmc world isn't all that nice I know people who get paid $250 a week to work in a mmc!

I just gotta say it takes alot of balls to invest and run a business that realistically can be taken away at any moment! So to the people doing it right much respect!

Just My 2cents

Dro
 
caregiverken

caregiverken

Fear Not!
Supporter
11,535
438
After all my rantings, I do wish you good luck and geat success SOCOMMJ.

Great Post Kolah..

"Retail" sounds like too much work....lol

I know for a fact that Harborside doubles their money what they buy..

Not many retailers can pull that off.
sure their are the dang taxes...Meds should not be taxed..

I firmly believe that weed should be less expensive...It grows on trees!


But

the Growers and Trimmers should make a larger chunk, than the middle man.

Distributors in other industries don't double the prices on what they sell do they?
 
K

kolah

4,829
263
Personally. I think MMJ shops are sitting ducks for the feds. Unless the Governor or County Sheriffs stand up for our STATE Constitutional rights and tell the feds to fuck off all MMJ shops are at a huge risk for losing everything. Not to mention the possibility of spending the rest of their lives in a cage. That is not meant to scare anyone although it should. It was the Native American Indians who first questioned and later laughed at the federal governments quote, "We are here from the government and we are here to help." Yeah right.

And then we have Caregiver Ken, doing the underground scene and raking in $100k per year (clear), kicking back and sipping drinks with little umbrellas in them while puffing on his homegrown ganja. And now he even has his wifey popping his magic oil pills!

Then again, everything I said could be bullshit. :mmm
 
eyecandi

eyecandi

327
28
Pay thousands of dollars per year for a fucking MMJ license? Then give up and sign away many of your rights? Then rent a huge building to grow in? Then heat and cool the place? Then hire boobs to work for you who might steal your weed and give out "deals" to their buddies. Pay outrageous taxes? Then find out you can not even deduct your business expenses?? WTF??? How about having paperwork overload where everything needs to be tagged, marked, inventoried, counted and recounted etc? And finally after jumping through all the fucking hoops I still have to lay in bed at night wondering if a fed SWAT team will be kickng down my door? Or coming to work one day and finding the feds took all my shit including all my grow equipment?

that is the best summary i've seen in a while. kudos
 
caregiverken

caregiverken

Fear Not!
Supporter
11,535
438
And then we have Caregiver Ken, doing the underground scene and raking in $100k per year (clear), kicking back and sipping drinks with little umbrellas in them while puffing on his homegrown ganja. And now he even has his wifey popping his magic oil pills!

Then again, everything I said could be bullshit. :mmm

LMAO! take off a zero and you'd be close... But hey, I just started..
icon10.gif


I wasn't expecting to make a cent.(I was hoping to though)

Honestly, I was out of work much of 2011 and growing Saved my house and my life.

I hope to make a little money for the Time and money Investment
and work I do

I am growing a Cure for Cancer...I don't wanna get rich...

I just wanna GrowMore Weed!

:sun

...................................:animbong:
 
Capulator

Capulator

likes to smell trees.
Supporter
6,070
313
The businessman in me does not much like the falling prices. We have rent to pay, employees, etc etc. The profit margins are much thinner than people think for an MMC. You would be sick if you saw the gross vs my personal net. I guarantee you that I made less than I pay my employees, and I don't pay them much. Pretty sure it works out to well under minimum wage to me for the hours invested. Remember, a farmer works 365 days a year.

The humanist thinks that it can't be bad for the prices to come down. When people are sick they usually aren't working. Medicaid isn't covering cannabis last I heard. It's an herb for crying out loud. It should go for a few dollars a pound. Governmental retardation is the only thing pumping up the price.

Lower prices are also pressuring the marginal shops to shape up or ship out.. we are seeing lots of that happening in the last few months. The market in Colorado Springs is tough. There are way too many shops to support the patient base.

Below are some numbers that should make those thinking about jumping in to perhaps rethink the glory of owning an MMC:

125+ Colorado Springs MMCs for 12,000 patients in El Paso County. That probably leaves maybe 8,000 in Co Springs proper. 64 average per shop, if every patient used an MMC[which they don't].

If each patient averages 1/2oz a month at $100 these days that is $6400 gross/month. 32 ounces at $2200[contract price per lb] that leaves [6400-4400]= $3,000 for rent, utilities, insurance, payroll, fees, random crap and a sliver of profit[?].

Now factor in some dickheads like me that are hoggin' up the patients. If I'm pushing 300 signed patients and at least that many more unsigned patients, now all of a sudden the average numbers go down even further for the remaining shops.

With all those patients we should be golden, right? Nope, you have to factor $7k in payroll to support the volumes, $6k in Rent and utilities... you get the idea. Hell, just lunch for the crew runs a grand or so a month.

Do a little math. You can actually see that MMC owners are not typically rolling in a new BMW. While I'm not proclaiming a failure at business by any means, I'm just trying to say that the pot at the end of the rainbow is filled with turkey sandwiches, not gold. At least Turkey sandwiches are delicious.

Oh,there is that little bit of satisfaction from helping out some sick people too...

Isnt there 16 oz in a lb, and not 32?

That should help with your numbers. :sun
 
Dorje

Dorje

410
43
There's definitely an economy of scale that was intended by the state to make small dispensaries unattractive. The state doesn't want to have to police and regulate thousands of dispensaries, they intended for 80% of them to close down.

Then there's the fact that a lot of growers use systems that cost way too much to run. I re-use my dirt and use basic ferts that you can buy 50-lb bags of in bulk for super-cheap. Check prices for large bags (50+ lbs) of bone and blood meal, kelp meal, fine dolomite lime, 5 gallon buckets of hi-brix molasses, etc. and you'll see that my expenses for growing media and fertilizers are inconsequential. Give me a greenhouse and I can grow weed for damn near nothing besides labor. Indoors, my largest expense, by FAR, is electricity. But I yield 2+ lbs per kW so that's not so bad either, especially at an industrial rate for kW hours.

So, part of the issue is that guys who own MMCs need to lean-out their system and figure out how to grow without giving all that income to the grow stores. You need to figure out how to run a system with less labor. I hand watered a 24kW flowering room in 3 hours. It requires water every 4th day... I can run a 32 light setup by myself in 20 hours a week.

But, I'm also a mechanical engineer who specializes in lean manufacturing techniques...
 
Tobor the 8th Man

Tobor the 8th Man

Supporter
2,500
163
I surprised an indian reservation hasn't started a mmc. They would actually have a chance at being completely protected from the feds. I could be wrong but it seems to have potential IMHO.

thoughts....
 
Top Bottom