hydro res, air and circulation pumps, chillers, and ozone.

[freezeland2]

ive no idea if the chiller would be needed in sterile setups. the low temp by chillers to increase the amount of oxygen in the water is a benefit but i have heard warmer temps, although transporting less oxygen, does promote faster growth. doesnt sound right.

When I was running nft I had it set at 70 degrees. I was in a space that ambient would reach 90 degrees. 1/2 HP chiller on a 30g reservoir. If average ambient were less a 1/4 hp would have been sufficient.

 

[smokedareefer]

ive no idea if the chiller would be needed in sterile setups. the low temp by chillers to increase the amount of oxygen in the water is a benefit but i have heard warmer temps, although transporting less oxygen, does promote faster growth. doesnt sound right.

Water chillers are used to cool the water only, chiller set to 68 f in my rooms

 

[Frostie069]

Hi Guys/Girls

Have made a final decision, after extended research, to build a sterile nft hydroponic system.
I naturally have many questions and hope the hydro minded types on here can help me out.
But lets please start by determining sizes need of reservoir ,pumps, airstones, and ozone vs h202.
To help in determining the factors that have in impact on making these decision please ask any question you feel would benefit the conversation.

I have made calculations on the volume of the four 110mm(4.33inch) diameter tubes 3000mm(118.11inch) long.
It equates to 28.5l(7,52gal) total. They however are only needed to be supplied with a steady flow of between 1l/min(0,264172) and 2l/min(0,26gal) from what i understand.
The water intake to the tubes will sit around 600mm(est) form the top of the ground, 400mm(est) above the reservoir water level.

Hi Green,

I'm following along.

Thanks for stopping past my thread also, I know I'm well overdue for an update, there is actually a big one coming in a day or two.

Good on you for going to NFT, not the most popular of methods.

I'll respond with some of my experience, I'm onto my third grow NFT.

Being a custom system and my first grow, I had some teething problems with the setup as well as nutrient dosing issues. Lost the first grow due to system issues but the main problem was overfeeding, following the nutrient feeding guide was a big mistake. BUT I LEARNT HOW TO READ THE PLANTS.

Second grow was much better, I adjusted the teething problems from the first grow, I pushed aside the feeding plan by H&G and did my own plan which was much much less nutrients. I used my eyes to adjust the feeding plan and I experienced the explosive growth spoken of with NFT.
Made it too flower however lost that grow due to the roots clogging up my drains and while at work for a few days they were without water.

Third and current grow, kind of fixed and monitoring roots to avoid clogging drains, also reduced amount of plants. Been a bit lazy this grow so its taken longer and explosive growth hasn't been seen. But update to come soon. Ive done allot of maintenance, should be a decent update.

talk soon

 

[Frostie069]

ok i wasnt aware. thanks for the confirming that going bigger is better and wont lead to issue rather add to stability this is great. does the 160l sound sufficient though? ill probably only fill half way

I have experienced plants transpiring between 500-700ml of water each plant per day when they're growing rapidly, and that's not in full bloom either. I currently run 75L for 6-7 plants and am going to upgrade to 300L next grow or maybe this grow if it gives me the shits. I went to work for 3-4 days and half my reservoir was gone.
During this time though EC and PH remain stable, everyday or day and a half I have a ph rise of 0.1, occasionally the EC drops by 0.1 and the PH goes up with it, which is a good sign of balance when you have a lowering water level in your reservoir but the plants are consuming everything in balance. I just need to be able to leave it for longer without pumps starting to suck air.

 

[Frostie069]

also bro what ive found to be a massive one is going from seed to NFT.

My personal experience is this is the most important process, once you get them into the NFT with the right light and nutrients they'll take off like a steam train, but they need a decent root system for this to happen which takes time. For me it takes about 3 weeks from germ and ive made my own "incubator" so once again I can go to work and they still take off. I'll post pics soon hopefully.

 

[GreenGalaxyFarm]

Good on you for going to NFT, not the most popular of methods.

Yeah i never was really intrested in hydroponics, up untill this time ive grown outdoors, august we into the new house and i did drop some seeds,but without amending the soil or anything that together with the very shallow topsoil layer and grey hardlike clay layer inches under that so the roots are tiny. Many more issue like wind pest and heat and im down to 3 plants..anyway so i decided to do what i know but indoors.this started late december and ive been watering and mixing nutes every second day and getting tired of it quick. The growth ist too slow but im sure they can better. So i got realy high a few nights ago and the topic of hydro pops up on my youtube, a video by argiculture academy, they explained the advantages and disavantages of hydro it was the professional manner in which the information was presented that caught my interest and i watched it..again and again i tripped out on this video, its was like jesus coming down from heaven for christians..i immedaitely decided on nft right there.and here we are..

Made it too flower however lost that grow due to the roots clogging up my drains and while at work for a few days they were without water.

What part got clogged exactly and what diameter
Could nft be run 6/2 with the lights and stop the circulation pump during that time?

But update to come soon. Ive done allot of maintenance, should be a decent update.

talk soon

 

[GreenGalaxyFarm]

I have experienced plants transpiring between 500-700ml of water each plant per day when they're growing rapidly, and that's not in full bloom either. I currently run 75L for 6-7 plants and am going to upgrade to 300L next grow or maybe this grow if it gives me the shits.

Ok im getting that the tank is rather small, i have three of the same 160l totes so i can definitely run them in series by connecting them

I went to work for 3-4 days and half my reservoir was gone.

Wow

During this time though EC and PH remain stable, everyday or day and a half I have a ph rise of 0.1, occasionally the EC drops by 0.1 and the PH goes up with it, which is a good sign of balance when you have a lowering water level in your reservoir but the plants are consuming everything in balance. I just need to be able to leave it for longer without pumps starting to suck air.

Eventualy i should probably have a 1000l tank of filtered water feeeding the res via a float valve?

 

[Frostie069]

I have three 1m channels, downward sloped and all connected by 25mm pipe. The roots grew threw all the pipe work and clogged it up, the normal water flow made the channel over flow. You get LOTS of roots mate when things are firing. I have had to reduce the number of plants and put netting in. Ive got inspection holes so I can check, I've still had to fish roots out of the plumbing.

As for your overall setup, there are many ways you can go about it. I'm personally working off reservoir changes every two weeks max. The problem with auto top-off IMO is you will have EC and PH fluctuations. It will be constantly diluting your solution, so you'll need to be topping that up with nutrients. You can go automatic with that too if you like. Me personally, I do manual top-ups and nutrient adjustments at the same time. I generally shut off flow through the channels, adjust everything and when it's settled get the flow going again through the channels.

6/2, some do it, once again matter of preference. I think it's good to keep the mechanics running ie pumps, I fear constant switching them on and off will wear them quicker and one day they won't turn on when they're meant to, and mate shit goes south very quick when they have no water.

Also whatever equipment you buy, if you can go quality, quieter pumps etc. When you have all the equipment running she can make some noise.

 

[GreenGalaxyFarm]

25mm pipe. The roots grew threw all the pipe work and clogged it up, the normal water flow made the channel over flow.

im thinking to just leave the hole of the last plants before downpipes open and use it as a inspection spot.

Me personally, I do manual top-ups and nutrient adjustments at the same time. I generally shut off flow through the channels, adjust everything and when it's settled get the flow going again through the channels.

will be doing same

6/2, some do it, once again matter of preference. I think it's good to keep the mechanics running ie pumps, I fear constant switching them on and off will wear them quicker and one day they won't turn on when they're meant to, and mate shit goes south very quick when they have no water.

yeah im sure constant is better, my issue is power outages are daily and the generator relay will only kick in seconds after outage is detected so they will definitely stop and starts twice a day.

Also whatever equipment you buy, if you can go quality, quieter pumps etc. When you have all the equipment running she can make some noise.

definitely not looking for noise but also unavoidable with so many moving parts, hopefully the sound of running water balances it out.

 

[GreenGalaxyFarm]

so lets get into air pumps im looking at the following option just not sure of size https://futurama.co.za/sunsun-aco-002-magnetic-piston-air-pump-40l-min

 

[GreenGalaxyFarm]

When I was running nft I had it set at 70 degrees. I was in a space that ambient would reach 90 degrees. 1/2 HP chiller on a 30g reservoir. If average ambient were less a 1/4 hp would have been sufficient.

90 is super hot and probably the max before you see vurling, i have only once had a day reach 91-92 indoor and they curled on the edges. at 90 or less they do fine. variatal dependant tho the ones that didnt make it to 90 i removed from the population whe they were still young, as im doing hps lights and cant waste time on genetics that struggle along..
so in your case you needed a chiller, im trying to find one on google locally but nothing, what are those products sold as. keyword chillers isnt working.

 

[freezeland2]

90 is super hot and probably the max before you see vurling, i have only once had a day reach 91-92 indoor and they curled on the edges. at 90 or less they do fine. variatal dependant tho the ones that didnt make it to 90 i removed from the population whe they were still young, as im doing hps lights and cant waste time on genetics that struggle along..
so in your case you needed a chiller, im trying to find one on google locally but nothing, what are those products sold as. keyword chillers isnt working.

Try searching in aquatics

 

[GreenGalaxyFarm]

Try searching in aquatics

helped, i found this controller https://www.growfolk.co.za/product/temperature-controller-plug/ .my thinking is the add the controller and use it as a monitor originally till i find the need to add a cooler, it looks like only 1 built in product exists amongst the aquatics shops its this https://hydroponic.co.za/hydroponics/water-tank-cooler/ will go nicely onto the side of a tote

 

[Frostie069]

so lets get into air pumps im looking at the following option just not sure of size https://futurama.co.za/sunsun-aco-002-magnetic-piston-air-pump-40l-min

helped, i found this controller https://www.growfolk.co.za/product/temperature-controller-plug/ .my thinking is the add the controller and use it as a monitor originally till i find the need to add a cooler, it looks like only 1 built in product exists amongst the aquatics shops its this https://hydroponic.co.za/hydroponics/water-tank-cooler/ will go nicely onto the side of a tote

I am unsure of your conditions but res temp is very important, 19C to 20C is what my solution is always at with a Hailea chiller. This is another parameter to try and keep stable along with EC & PH.

As for air pump, it depends on how long your runs are going to be, you'll loose oxygen over long distance so you'll have to get air in along your channel somewhere. My system of thought is to always have more than one running so if one dies you still have another one or more adding oxygen. Good to do with pumps too.

In my small system I can get away with running no air at all, just the water flow and fall back into res adds enough oxygen. I do run one though with an air stone bar, whether it makes a difference or not, I am unsure, I know ive ran the system for a couple of months without it and didn't see a difference.

 

[GreenGalaxyFarm]

As for air pump, it depends on how long your runs are going to be, you'll loose oxygen over long distance so you'll have to get air in along your channel somewhere. My system of thought is to always have more than one running so if one dies you still have another one or more adding oxygen. Good to do with pumps too.

i can add airpumps they are inexpensive for what they offer, this is going to seem like im trying to be spoonfed information but how do you get additional air into the channels? im not sure how this is done and dont want airstones in the channel blocking roots or is my worry unfounded. ? and would it then not be better the run an pump to each individual channel instead of one in the res?

In my small system I can get away with running no air at all, just the water flow and fall back into res adds enough oxygen. I do run one though with an air stone bar, whether it makes a difference or not, I am unsure, I know ive ran the system for a couple of months without it and didn't see a difference.

i will have only a 400mm(est) drop between outlet and top of water level. my original thought was to just run 6 stones in the reservoir and be done with it. but this was before i read up on dissolved oxygen at temp.

 

[Frostie069]

i can add airpumps they are inexpensive for what they offer, this is going to seem like im trying to be spoonfed information but how do you get additional air into the channels? im not sure how this is done and dont want airstones in the channel blocking roots or is my worry unfounded. ? and would it then not be better the run an pump to each individual channel instead of one in the res?

i will have only a 400mm(est) drop between outlet and top of water level. my original thought was to just run 6 stones in the reservoir and be done with it. but this was before i read up on dissolved oxygen at temp.

it will depend on the length of your runs, you can find accurate figures and measurements online for this, I think off memory somewhere around 3m and you need to start adding air to the channel, but don't take my word, its been a while since I read that bit of information.

I wouldn't want excessive bubbles directly in contact with the roots, but I also have no knowledge to stay direct contact is bad.

one way to add air stones mid channel or wherever is to make what I call inspection ports. you can add an air stone in and cover it up with some reflective sheet and tape.

 

[GreenGalaxyFarm]

so heres my minds at regarding the o2 to the roots. instead of running the h20 from point a to b, beginning to end of 110mm tubes, i can run 20mm irrigation parallel with the tubes and do 5mm tube inline in the 20mm to each net pot individually.

 

[Aqua Man]

Got your message… im a bit under the weather so will give ya some guidelines i use to build systems but haven’t read the thread

water pump: should have a turnover rate that is minimum 4x the volume of the system for a small system. Ideally i prefer about 10x turnover.

air pump: should be matched to the size an number of airstones…. Not calculated by water volume. The 4x2 cylinder stones need about 12-15 lpm each to function properly.

gas exchange happens at the surface so use as many as you need to agitate as much of the surface water as possible.

a chiller may be needed depending on the efficiency of the pump, environment and setup of the system. I find 72f to be the most ideal root temps for growth.

id avoid ozone all together unless its a closed unit and those are very pricey.

if you have any questions ill try to answer them

 

[GreenGalaxyFarm]

Got your message… im a bit under the weather so will give ya some guidelines i use to build systems but haven’t read the thread

had two weeks recently of the same

water pump: should have a turnover rate that is minimum 4x the volume of the system for a small system. Ideally i prefer about 10x turnover.

when you say volume of the system, are your referring to the volume needed in all tubes total during peak flow, or volume of reservoir, or both together?

air pump: should be matched to the size an number of airstones…. Not calculated by water volume. The 4x2 cylinder stones need about 12-15 lpm to function properly.

air pump i have access to tomorrow is this: https://hydroponic.co.za/hydroponics/air-pumps/?attribute_pa_size=big-boy-b-10200
4 outlet at 3500CC/min (not sure what cc's/min are)
running to 4 round stones (large according to ad)

gas exchange happens at the surface so use as many as you need to agitate as much of the surface water as possible.

i watched some videos on air stones the consensus seem to be for round air stones as they create the most small bubbles at all l/min.

id avoid ozone all together unless its a closed unit and those are very pricey.

this is the only page i have open after looking at all the ozone generators local to me https://puritech.co.za/product/5g-hr-ozone-generator-with-two-strong-cooling-fans/ its not too pricey but ive learned that 3% h202 would have a similar effect to maintain sterile system? its also obviously a ton cheaper to do the h202. but ill get whats best for the plants.

if you have any questions ill try to answer them

dude. thank you!

 

[Aqua Man]

this is RDWC im talking about.

so add up the actual water volume of the entire system and you need a turnover ideally of 10x per hr. Eg. 50 gal of actual water would be between 200gph min and 500gph. id suggest 500 although in a smaller system you can get away with less.

3500cc/min is 3.5lpm not enough but for maybe 1 tiny airstone. I do suggest the larger 4x2 simply because they are proven and have more surface area (less prone to clogging)

id go with the 29% h202 and dilute it. the 3% h202 has a bunch of things added to keep it stabilized in such a low concentration and anything over 30% will likely have severe shipping restrictions