Hydroponic Research User Thread

justiceman · Feb 2, 2017

FarmerBoy said:
Week 5 on this Gg#4 from midnight clones sure did a lot of stretching, it's about 1foot and a half from these de bulbs
Everything was all good and gravy till la decided to get a whole week of rain and spiked up the humidity in my room and got powder mildew -.- wondering if I can still fix this problem or is it to late ?

All you can really do is just keep your airflow high at this point. If it's just a little bit you'll probably be fine. Interesting I had some GG4 cuts I was going to run but they came to me with PM so I threw them out. I know this because none of my other plants had it then nor have it now. I'm wondering if GG4 is just particularly susceptible to PM? If so I don't like that as a trait at all. Looks like some great smoke though.

CelticEBE · Feb 3, 2017

FarmerBoy said:
Week 5 on this Gg#4 from midnight clones sure did a lot of stretching, it's about 1foot and a half from these de bulbs
Everything was all good and gravy till la decided to get a whole week of rain and spiked up the humidity in my room and got powder mildew -.- wondering if I can still fix this problem or is it to late ?

Greencure, airflow, get your environment dialed, and when you harvest use Jorge Cervantes method for dealing with PM.

When you take down clean the shit out of EVERYTHING with H202.

In 8 years I've had to deal with PM once. All from taking in a cut.

Damn near every MAJOR battle I have ever had to fight has come from taking in cuts. No more......there are too many great seeds out there that I can pheno hunt through.

justiceman · Feb 3, 2017

CelticEBE said:
Damn near every MAJOR battle I have ever had to fight has come from taking in cuts. No more......there are too many great seeds out there that I can pheno hunt through.

Those are the words of truth!

Wisher619 · Feb 12, 2017

justiceman said:
I have not used it at all. Been running the RO/Soft formula in coco with no calcium or magnesium issues.
View attachment 664699
View attachment 664700
View attachment 664706

I have a question for you
what are you using in grams per gal

I am having major issues with this stuff

I am in coco
and my shit is yellowing out as well as burning at the same time

never seen it before

I have been using the RO for about a month and when I switched to bloom is when they really started to yellow out

I am using @4g a gal with a starting ec .3 with calmg

just wondering what you are running as your plants look alot better than mine

justiceman · Feb 12, 2017

Wisher619 said:
I have a question for you
what are you using in grams per gal

I am having major issues with this stuff

I am in coco
and my shit is yellowing out as well as burning at the same time

never seen it before

I have been using the RO for about a month and when I switched to bloom is when they really started to yellow out

I am using @4g a gal with a starting ec .3 with calmg

just wondering what you are running as your plants look alot better than mine

Yo! Ok here goes. My starting water is about .1EC(50ppm) and I've been using it at roughly 3g per gal which lands me .8EC(400ppm) but I like to pay more attention to the EC. If I don't hit my mark I dilute with water or add a bit more powder so that's why I'm saying roughly. I just bumped them up to about 3.5g and that's landing me just slightly above 1.0EC(500ppm)

Are you seeing anything like the picture below? I noticed when I fed my seedlings a little too much I started to see this lockout but when i backed off on strength it never progressed. This stuff is pretty damn strong and it's got everything in it including cal and mag. I want to say that you adding calmag with veg+bloom is possibly causing lockout since you're starting water is already .3EC which is pretty much ideal as is. I know some people add it without issue but I'm just not seeing why it's needed.

That being said to drive the point home that I don't think calmag is necessary with these nutrients here are my girls from a couple days ago

.1EC starting water currently at 1.0EC. Just Veg+Bloom RO formula, with occasional applications of +Life. 100% coco Nothing else. 11 Days into flower.

And here are some leaf shots. No calmag during this entire run.

Wisher619 · Feb 12, 2017

justiceman said:
Yo! Ok here goes. My starting water is about .1EC(50ppm) and I've been using it at roughly 3g per gal which lands me .8EC(400ppm) but I like to pay more attention to the EC. If I don't hit my mark I dilute with water or add a bit more powder so that's why I'm saying roughly. I just bumped them up to about 3.5g and that's landing me just slightly above 1.0EC(500ppm)

Are you seeing anything like the picture below? I noticed when I fed my seedlings a little too much I started to see this lockout but when i backed off on strength it never progressed. This stuff is pretty damn strong and it's got everything in it including cal and mag. I want to say that you adding calmag with veg+bloom is possibly causing lockout since you're starting water is already .3EC which is pretty much ideal as is. I know some people do it but I think it's one or the other. 0.0EC water with calmag, or .3EC without calmag.
View attachment 668297

That being said to drive the point home that I don't think calmag is necessary with these nutrients here are my girls from a couple days ago

.1EC starting water currently at 1.0EC. Just Veg+Bloom RO formula, with occasional applications of +Life. 100% coco Nothing else.
View attachment 668300

ok so here it goes

my starting water is roughly 16ppm
I called Chris @Hydroponic research
he told me to bump my starting ec to .3
and he told me to use Botanicare Calmg @3ml per gal which brings me right to .3 ec
I then run 4g per gal

I am not seeing what you were showing which is def a calmg def
the cal being the dark spots and the Mg being the lightning of the chlorophyll on the edges

what I am getting is a complete yellowing of the plant

if you look at your picture
the new leaves comming out that are slightly yellow before they grow out

well my entire plant is that color and the edges are dieing as well as the tips are turned down like as if they have N toxicity
but they dont

cant snap a picture right now because they are in lights out during the day
I do have a picture I can post when they just started

justiceman · Feb 12, 2017

Wisher619 said:
ok so here it goes

my starting water is roughly 16ppm
I called Chris @Hydroponic research
he told me to bump my starting ec to .3
and he told me to use Botanicare Calmg @3ml per gal which brings me right to .3 ec
I then run 4g per gal

I am not seeing what you were showing which is def a calmg def
the cal being the dark spots and the Mg being the lightning of the chlorophyll on the edges

what I am getting is a complete yellowing of the plant

if you look at your picture
the new leaves comming out that are slightly yellow before they grow out

well my entire plant is that color and the edges are dieing as well as the tips are turned down like as if they have N toxicity
but they dont

cant snap a picture right now because they are in lights out during the day
I do have a picture I can post when they just started

Oh i see what you're saying. I thought you had a starting water of .3EC and then were adding calmag on top of that my mistake. You are bringing up your water to .3EC with calmag. Gotcha!

That picture was to kind of point out that adding too much calmag can cause lockout therefore causing a deficiency, but I don't think that's the case with you since your starting water is pretty much 0.0EC. I'm still weary about adding calmag with these nutrients though.

As you know it's quite abundant in calmag already.

This is an excerpt from an email I had with them recently.

I wonder why they have 2 recommendations for base water. Surely there is a vast difference between using tap water or mixing calmag into RO. That being said I don't bring my water up to 100ppm it stays at 50ppm because my RO filter isn't very good LOL.

Ya I'd like to see what they look like. Both pictures would be cool.

Wisher619 · Feb 12, 2017

so you can see the color that my plants start out at
that deep green is what I am used to

you see how light they are here and if you look in the back left there are a few deep green leaves still

see how the color is really light green

this was from a week ago
half the leaves have died out now

my ec is 1.6 and my ph is @ a solid 6.0 which I have always run at

justiceman said:
Oh i see what you're saying. I thought you had a starting water of .3EC and then were adding calmag on top of that my mistake. You are bringing up your water to .3EC with calmag. Gotcha!

That picture was to kind of point out that adding too much calmag can cause lockout therefore causing a deficiency, but I don't think that's the case with you since your starting water is pretty much 0.0EC. I'm still weary about adding calmag with these nutrients though.
View attachment 668311
As you know it's quite abundant in calmag already.

This is an excerpt from an email I had with them recently.
View attachment 668313
I wonder why they have 2 recommendations for base water. Surely there is a vast difference between using tap water or mixing calmag into RO. That being said I don't bring my water up to 100ppm it stays at 50ppm because my RO filter isn't very good LOL.

Ya I'd like to see what they look like. Both pictures would be cool.

justiceman · Feb 12, 2017

Nice set up! is that hydroton on the top coco underneath? recirculating feeding multiple times a day? Those flora flexes rock.

I forget are you rocking the COB's as well? I hear they are pretty intense and people have to raise them higher than they think. Honestly I think the plants look just fine. They are still small babes just keep em on track they should green up as they get bigger. They probably look greener without the yellowish lighting too. Or was that the older picture? hahaha probably older if you are running 1.6EC currently. I'm aiming to max out at around 1.2 maybe 1.3 this round but I'm not growing trees like some of these other guys.

Wisher619 said:
so you can see the color that my plants start out at
that deep green is what I am used to

View attachment 668319

you see how light they are here and if you look in the back left there are a few deep green leaves still
View attachment 668320

see how the color is really light green

this was from a week ago
half the leaves have died out now
View attachment 668321

my ec is 1.6 and my ph is @ a solid 6.0 which I have always run at

EventHorizan · Feb 12, 2017

I think your on the right track backing off the light for the moment.
But my gut says that might be more to it than that.
But I guess it's just because it's the WHOLE plant affected. Like its uptake issue.

Wisher619 · Feb 12, 2017

EventHorizan said:
I think your on the right track backing off the light for the moment.
But my gut says that might be more to it than that.
But I guess it's just because it's the WHOLE plant affected. Like its uptake issue.

and the fact that there are 4 differ strains in there exibiting the same issue

it is canna coco underneath the hydroton
I feed 1 time a day right now
it is a drain to waste

and with the lights
I am starting to think it was just to intense

I was running them @15-18"
I had to back them up to 24"
they then started to perk up a little

maybe they just couldnt assimilate the nutrients fast enough to feed with that type of intensity

Wisher619 · Feb 12, 2017

justiceman said:
Oh i see what you're saying. I thought you had a starting water of .3EC and then were adding calmag on top of that my mistake. You are bringing up your water to .3EC with calmag. Gotcha!

That picture was to kind of point out that adding too much calmag can cause lockout therefore causing a deficiency, but I don't think that's the case with you since your starting water is pretty much 0.0EC. I'm still weary about adding calmag with these nutrients though.
View attachment 668311
As you know it's quite abundant in calmag already.

This is an excerpt from an email I had with them recently.
View attachment 668313
I wonder why they have 2 recommendations for base water. Surely there is a vast difference between using tap water or mixing calmag into RO. That being said I don't bring my water up to 100ppm it stays at 50ppm because my RO filter isn't very good LOL.

Ya I'd like to see what they look like. Both pictures would be cool.

the ph stabalizers they use need something to work against to stabalize

or so I was told

justiceman · Feb 12, 2017

Wisher619 said:
the ph stabalizers they use need something to work against to stabalize

or so I was told

Yup I have heard the same thing from them. From what I understand the carbonates and bicarbonates in tap water are what cause the stabilization. Even though they say that adding calmag will achieve the same result I don't understand how that's possible since calmag is mostly calcium nitrate which happens to be the first ingredient on their guaranteed analysis label of the base nute itself. I'm thinking adding tap water up to 100ppm provides a solution pH that has more stability than 100ppm of calcium nitrate and magnesium nitrate.

Wisher619 · Feb 12, 2017

justiceman said:
Yup I have heard the same thing from them. From what I understand the carbonates and bicarbonates in tap water are what cause the stabilization. Even though they say that adding calmag will achieve the same result I don't understand how that's possible since calmag is mostly calcium nitrate which happens to be the first ingredient on their guaranteed analysis label of the base nute itself. I'm thinking adding tap water up to 100ppm provides a solution pH that has more stability than 100ppm of calcium nitrate and magnesium nitrate.

I feel the same way

I am gonna drop the Calmg for a week this next res fill and see what happens

I use a sweetner which has Mg S so we will se what happens
but yeah I am with you entirely

Wisher619 · Feb 12, 2017

justiceman said:
Yup I have heard the same thing from them. From what I understand the carbonates and bicarbonates in tap water are what cause the stabilization. Even though they say that adding calmag will achieve the same result I don't understand how that's possible since calmag is mostly calcium nitrate which happens to be the first ingredient on their guaranteed analysis label of the base nute itself. I'm thinking adding tap water up to 100ppm provides a solution pH that has more stability than 100ppm of calcium nitrate and magnesium nitrate.

https://books.google.com/books?id=c...ium bicarbonate hydroponic stabilizer&f=false

this explain that having a working raw water of at least 50ppm with bicarbonates allows the nutrient solution to stabalize in the proper range instead of dropping

justiceman · Feb 12, 2017

Wisher619 said:
https://books.google.com/books?id=cVG0v8rbqlsC&pg=PA121&lpg=PA121&dq=calcium+bicarbonate+hydroponic+stabilizer&source=bl&ots=tuNlISMSHR&sig=lD1iQ2d1xAbSiDkzPE43-kZia08&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi5y63O6IvSAhVDhlQKHdvvCIwQ6AEIJjAB#v=onepage&q=calcium bicarbonate hydroponic stabilizer&f=false

this explain that having a working raw water of at least 50ppm with bicarbonates allows the nutrient solution to stabalize in the proper range instead of dropping

Nice link that will be good for all here to see. Guess it's kinda convenient my ro puts out at 50ppm.

We want carbonates and bicabonates for stabalization not nitrates.

Wisher619 · Feb 12, 2017

justiceman said:
Nice link that will be good for all here to see. Guess it's kinda convenient my ro puts out at 50ppm.

We want carbonates and bicabonates for stabalization not nitrates.

that link states the potassium bi-carbonate is a great source for ph stabalization

Earth Juice natural up is potassium bi-carbonate

I am gonna mix some up to see what will give me 50ppm and then add 4g Veg+Bloom and see where that leaves me and how stable the ph is

justiceman · Feb 12, 2017

Wisher619 said:
that link states the potassium bi-carbonate is a great source for ph stabalization

Earth Juice natural up is potassium bi-carbonate

I am honna mix some up to see what will give me 50ppm and then add 4g Veg+Bloom and see where that leaves me and how stable the ph is

I want to say the general take away is the carbonate/bicarbonate part is whats most important.

I'm interested to see what your findings are with the ej ph up. I still say some good old tap mixed in at .1-.2EC is best but if the ej ph up makes it makes it more stable that would be nice.

At 1.0EC without adjustment I'm at 6.3. I pH down to 5.8 and let it drift back up to about 6.0 maybe 6.1. That usually takes a couple days for it to drift up.

Wisher619 · Feb 12, 2017

justiceman said:
I want to say the general take away is the carbonate/bicarbonate part is whats most important.

I'm interested to see what your findings are with the ej ph up. I still say some good old tap mixed in at .1-.2EC is best but if the ej ph up makes it makes it more stable that would be nice.

At 1.0EC without adjustment I'm at 6.3. I pH down to 5.8 and let it drift back up to about 6.0 maybe 6.1. That usually takes a couple days for it to drift up.

cutting with tap wouldn't be the best thing for me

my tap is 850ppm worth of Aggie runoff and sulfates

but the P Bi carb should work fine

I have used it in the past just for reg ph up instead of the gh stuff

when I run mine I don't use anything
it goes straight to 5.9 and drifts to about 6.1 over the course of 7 days

so we will see

Wisher619 · Feb 13, 2017

so experiment finished

starting water 8ppm
added Potassium Bi-carbonate to 50ppm
added 5g Veg+Bloom RO/Soft
came to 1.6ec with a ph of 6.3 steady
which is not where I would like to be
Maybe if I were growing Lettuce but not Cannabis
which would lead to using ph down

Hydroponic Research User Thread

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