Hydroponic Research User Thread

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justiceman

justiceman

so experiment finished

starting water 8ppm
added Potassium Bi-carbonate to 50ppm
added 5g Veg+Bloom RO/Soft
came to 1.6ec with a ph of 6.3 steady
which is not where I would like to be
Maybe if I were growing Lettuce but not Cannabis
which would lead to using ph down

Interesting findings sir. My pH is at 6.3 after I mix in the powder but then of course like you said I use some pH down after. I'm guessing it really is the bicarbonates neutralizing the acids. I got my tap water tested at a lab for brewing beer some years ago and it could have obviously changed by now but it had pretty high carbonate/bicarbonate levels.

So maybe that 50ppm from my R/O is mostly carbonates/bicarbonates since at 50ppm starting water both our Ph's sit at 6.3 after mixing. I wonder if your 8ppm starting water without calmag or potassium bicarb can still get a starting pH of 5.9 with stability after mixing. hmmmmmmmm.
 
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Wisher619

Wisher619

Interesting findings sir. My pH is at 6.3 after I mix in the powder but then of course like you said I use some pH down after. I'm guessing it really is the bicarbonates neutralizing the acids. I got my tap water tested at a lab for brewing beer some years ago and it could have obviously changed by now but it had pretty high carbonate/bicarbonate levels.

So maybe that 50ppm from my R/O is mostly carbonates/bicarbonates since at 50ppm starting water both our Ph's sit at 6.3 after mixing. I wonder if your 8ppm starting water without calmag or potassium bicarb can still get a starting pH of 5.9 with stability after mixing. hmmmmmmmm.
so I ran another gallon with just the RO water
ph is sitting @5.85 since last night @ 11:30 when I mixed it
I checked it this morn @8:30
still sitting @5.85
 
Wisher619

Wisher619

Sorry to butt in......
They recommend no airstones, I wonder why? Do airstones cause some kind of mineral precipitation? Think I read somewhere about them removing calcium. But then I've also read pumps can remove iron and other minerals. What do you guys mix with and how long do you let it mix before adjusting ph/watering? Thanks:)
you should wait at least 30min before adjusting

I have never used an airstone because I run drip to waste so the roots get oxygenated when they get watered
as for mixing ....with all nutrients I just use a recirculation pump in the res I run ever few hours for about 3 min....just to keep the nutrients mixed
 
justiceman

justiceman

So just let the pump mix it for at least 30min? I recently switched from organics/peat to coco/synthetic just wanna make sure I'm not messing up my nute mix/balance. Thanks again
Yup i do the same exact thing as wisher. I let it mix for atleast 30 min before Ph adjusting and I use the recirc pump. No air stones.

so I ran another gallon with just the RO water
ph is sitting @5.85 since last night @ 11:30 when I mixed it
I checked it this morn @8:30
still sitting @5.85
Seems solid to me. I can understand that the other formulas HD, TAP/HARD, and Dirty are supposed to be used with water that has range of carbonates/bicarbonates, but it makes sense that the RO/Soft version doesn't necessarily have to have them in the water to be stable.

I never understood why the container has conflicting information on it. I would think that 0.0ec should be perfectly fine without anything added to RO after all how could they call it an RO/Soft formula if you are required to use tap or some other addition with it. Makes no sense to me.

Says 0.0EC is fine on the front
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Same container says to bring water up to .3EC if it's below .3EC on the back....... Why HR? Why would you do this?! LOL
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Wisher619

Wisher619

Full 24hours later and holding steady

I am really not understanding this company's info
image.jpeg


so the small batch that I made I started hand watering to my plants and they seem to be snapping out of the funk

so from now on

the only thing in the res.........5g per gal V+B

nothing else
no Calmg
no ph up/down
no +life
no p/k booster
no sweetner

just V+B

we will see where this takes us

I tried +life the first week and it made my res turn into hot trash....smelled like a flamingo exibit at the zoo

next week Calmg+
everything started to yellow out real good and die

now just V+B
and greening back up
 
justiceman

justiceman

Full 24hours later and holding steady

I am really not understanding this company's info
View attachment 668917

so the small batch that I made I started hand watering to my plants and they seem to be snapping out of the funk

so from now on

the only thing in the res.........5g per gal V+B

nothing else
no Calmg
no ph up/down
no +life
no p/k booster
no sweetner

just V+B

we will see where this takes us

I tried +life the first week and it made my res turn into hot trash....smelled like a flamingo exibit at the zoo

next week Calmg+
everything started to yellow out real good and die

now just V+B
and greening back up
I'm so glad to hear they are greening back up. Awesome news. Should work fine. Just v+b baby! And maybe some shine later on perhaps?

I use +life sometimes. It does cause a film on the rez walls after a certain amount of time for me but I've never seen any problems from it.

Just bumped up to 1.1EC today and that brought my RO down to 6.0. Seems the closer I get to full strength the closer I'm coming to your pH readings before pH adjustment. This was roughly 4g per gal. I'm gonna try shine around week 3.
 
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Wisher619

Wisher619

5g gets me to 1.6ec with that 5.8ph
you know I was doing some research
foumd some 2012 threads on like RIU where people were using it

and quite a few stated back then that it was supposed to be ph perfect in RO water and that Chris had recomended using Roots Organic Soilless Coco with the RO formula
and people were killing it @ 4-5g per gallon

So I think HR needs to stop the confusion with customers

3-5g per gal RO in coco
done end of story
no.....Calmg or cut with Tap or any of that other BS

just dump and grow!!!

well I will see

@justiceman
what type of system are you using? Handwater? DTW?

how much +life are you using?
I used 1g per 5 gal.....but the weird thing that I dont like
it has 5% Potassium
it also has sugar and other products in it that are not labeled
 
justiceman

justiceman

5g gets me to 1.6ec with that 5.8ph
you know I was doing some research
foumd some 2012 threads on like RIU where people were using it

and quite a few stated back then that it was supposed to be ph perfect in RO water and that Chris had recomended using Roots Organic Soilless Coco with the RO formula
and people were killing it @ 4-5g per gallon

So I think HR needs to stop the confusion with customers

3-5g per gal RO in coco
done end of story
no.....Calmg or cut with Tap or any of that other BS


just dump and grow!!!

well I will see

@justiceman
what type of system are you using? Handwater? DTW?

how much +life are you using?
I used 1g per 5 gal.....but the weird thing that I dont like
it has 5% Potassium
it also has sugar and other products in it that are not labeled
Brother I could not agree more! I love HR and veg+bloom but the conflicting information is hilarious. I'd re-label everything with clear instruction for each formula so people can use it without issue. JUST DUMP AND GROW. That's what I'm talking about man! The whole reason why I got this stuff in the first place.

Yup I'm running it as simple as can be right now. Just hand watering DTW in 100% coco at the moment, but I want to set up a drip system with it later on. I just wanted to test it with hand watering first.

At first I ran +life at 5.5g per 10gal(instructions on the back of the damned container) but then I saw the feed chart on HR's site and went down to 1g per 5gal like you. I'm guessing the stronger mix is for when you transplant and the weaker one is for maintenance. Love how I have to guess at these things lol, but it's working. I'm not seeing the 5% potassium, but my bottle does say it has potassium sulfate in it. I'd imagine it's so little considering the dilution ratio it's not even worth paying attention to. The dextrose and a few other things like amino acids etc are supposed to be some food for the microbes if I'm not mistaken. They won't do much unless they eat. That's why you don't have to keep adding microbes in soil since they have tons of stuff to munch on, but in hydro they don't have shit haha so if we want to use them we have to keep adding them throughout. It's actually one of the reasons why I question if they really are useful or not in hydro.
 
Wisher619

Wisher619

Brother I could not agree more! I love HR and veg+bloom but the conflicting information is hilarious. I'd re-label everything with clear instruction for each formula so people can use it without issue. JUST DUMP AND GROW. That's what I'm talking about man! The whole reason why I got this stuff in the first place.

Yup I'm running it as simple as can be right now. Just hand watering DTW in 100% coco at the moment, but I want to set up a drip system with it later on. I just wanted to test it with hand watering first.

At first I ran +life at 5.5g per 10gal(instructions on the back of the damned container) but then I saw the feed chart on HR's site and went down to 1g per 5gal like you. I'm guessing the stronger mix is for when you transplant and the weaker one is for maintenance. Love how I have to guess at these things lol, but it's working. I'm not seeing the 5% potassium, but my bottle does say it has potassium sulfate in it. I'd imagine it's so little considering the dilution ratio it's not even worth paying attention to. The dextrose and a few other things like amino acids etc are supposed to be some food for the microbes if I'm not mistaken. They won't do much unless they eat. That's why you don't have to keep adding microbes in soil since they have tons of stuff to munch on, but in hydro they don't have shit haha so if we want to use them we have to keep adding them throughout. It's actually one of the reasons why I question if they really are useful or not in hydro.
Yeah with the +life I don't understand how you are supposed to run it in a hydro system.......when they are floating around eating the sugars and then the salts.......the population starts to explode....and causes an imbalance in the res

the same thing would happen to me when I used Hydroguard with sweet raw and Pure Blend Tea by Botanicae...within a few days...it would reek and you could actually see the population growing...like strings of seaweed...crazy

I am now using it as an inoculant so I just sprinkle it in the hole and on the roots at time of transplant like Mycos

I think once the roots are inoculated...it stays unless you do a flush
V+B also has sugars and aminos and all that in it as well...from what I have been reading.....so it is a constant feed for them...and once in the rhizosphere they will completely populate the entire medium....

even in coco DTW drip system......my roots go crazy...when I take the hydration off the top of the coco there is all kinds of webbing of what looks like white mold.....that is the micro life going nuts
 
justiceman

justiceman

Yeah with the +life I don't understand how you are supposed to run it in a hydro system.......when they are floating around eating the sugars and then the salts.......the population starts to explode....and causes an imbalance in the res

the same thing would happen to me when I used Hydroguard with sweet raw and Pure Blend Tea by Botanicae...within a few days...it would reek and you could actually see the population growing...like strings of seaweed...crazy

I am now using it as an inoculant so I just sprinkle it in the hole and on the roots at time of transplant like Mycos

I think once the roots are inoculated...it stays unless you do a flush
V+B also has sugars and aminos and all that in it as well...from what I have been reading.....so it is a constant feed for them...and once in the rhizosphere they will completely populate the entire medium....

even in coco DTW drip system......my roots go crazy...when I take the hydration off the top of the coco there is all kinds of webbing of what looks like white mold.....that is the micro life going nuts
Ya I've seen that happen to some before. I remember another farmer was adding microbes, molasses and some other organic supplements to his dwc and was wondering why his pH was going from optimal to almost 7 in less than 12 hours and was getting some root rot too. Told him to drop the microbes, and molasses, clean the rez and just go with his base only. Then the plants bounced back perfect haha.

That's a pretty good idea about sprinkling it on. I've been wondering how well it works like that. Good to know you've tried it with success. I was also thinking about taking a gallon out of the rez and making a +life solution with that. Then giving it to the plants once a week instead of just throwing +life straight into my little rez I keep. I do get that film on the side walls after a day or so but for some reason the pH doesn't spike or anything. Haven't seen an issue yet, but I'd rather keep it clean if possible.

I used +life with .2EC(100ppm) of veg+bloom at 5.8 for a couple cuts and it worked pretty well.
Dead Head OG Clone(2).JPG

Dead Head OG Clone.JPG
 
Wisher619

Wisher619

@justiceman
just made a batch with 4g in 1 gal
came to exactly 1.3 ec and ph 5.9

so I am thinking 3g =1.0 ec ph 6.0

I now see there is to much misinformation on this product....including from the company...not only from the packaging and website but also from customer service

I have seen the product grow great plants
mayne they need to up the info game to match the product
 
Wisher619

Wisher619

Ya I've seen that happen to some before. I remember another farmer was adding microbes, molasses and some other organic supplements to his dwc and was wondering why his pH was going from optimal to almost 7 in less than 12 hours and was getting some root rot too. Told him to drop the microbes, and molasses, clean the rez and just go with his base only. Then the plants bounced back perfect haha.

That's a pretty good idea about sprinkling it on. I've been wondering how well it works like that. Good to know you've tried it with success. I was also thinking about taking a gallon out of the rez and making a +life solution with that. Then giving it to the plants once a week instead of just throwing +life straight into my little rez I keep. I do get that film on the side walls after a day or so but for some reason the pH doesn't spike or anything. Haven't seen an issue yet, but I'd rather keep it clean if possible.

I used +life with .2EC(100ppm) of veg+bloom at 5.8 for a couple cuts and it worked pretty well.
View attachment 669019
View attachment 669018
I wasactually hitting my plants on my last run with Mammoth P
I would take a gallon of nute from the res and hittingbit with the P and hand feeding once a week
worked really well
 
CelticEBE

CelticEBE

I'm super happy with HD. I mix up 3 days worth and it lands at 5.7 with my well water, then creeps up to around 6.1 by the 3rd day.

I like to tell people to just use V+B, and then if you have issues look into adjusting your water or adding a supplement. This stuff has EVERYTHING you need in it. When I see people having issues, it's usually because they are overthinking things and feel like they have to add a million other products to their rez. I guess this is from what we have been led to believe from the nutrient companies and grow stores. When I tell my local shop I use a one part powder for a base.....they look at me like I am an alien or something.
 
sdgrower

sdgrower

Full 24hours later and holding steady

I am really not understanding this company's info
View attachment 668917

so the small batch that I made I started hand watering to my plants and they seem to be snapping out of the funk

so from now on

the only thing in the res.........5g per gal V+B

nothing else
no Calmg
no ph up/down
no +life
no p/k booster
no sweetner

just V+B

we will see where this takes us

I tried +life the first week and it made my res turn into hot trash....smelled like a flamingo exibit at the zoo

next week Calmg+
everything started to yellow out real good and die

now just V+B
and greening back up
Wisher619 how is vb only working for you so far?
 
justiceman

justiceman

I'm super happy with HD. I mix up 3 days worth and it lands at 5.7 with my well water, then creeps up to around 6.1 by the 3rd day.

I like to tell people to just use V+B, and then if you have issues look into adjusting your water or adding a supplement. This stuff has EVERYTHING you need in it. When I see people having issues, it's usually because they are overthinking things and feel like they have to add a million other products to their rez. I guess this is from what we have been led to believe from the nutrient companies and grow stores. When I tell my local shop I use a one part powder for a base.....they look at me like I am an alien or something.
Could not agree more. I feel like people don't believe me either when I tell them that's all I use. It's comical really.

TRUST IN VEG+BLOOM YOU MUST. DOUBT LEADS TO ADDITIVES, AND ADDITIVES LEAD TO FAILURE.

From seed/cutting to harvest. This stuff gets it done
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IMG_7654.JPG
 
Wisher619

Wisher619

Wisher619 how is vb only working for you so far?
well the new growth is pulling out of it
I know what was wrong with the plants I just dont know why

Sulfur Deficiency

I was reading up on it

PH.....nope I am sitting @ 5.8
lack of sulfur.....nope VB has plenty

the only other way to get a sulfur deficiency
an over abundance of Calcium

so ...since VB has 10% Ca
and the company told me to run .3 calmg with VB
I am thinking I locked sulfur out
and since Sulfur is a really slow element
it takes a white to correct itself
so new growth it coming out green
old growth is straight neon green with a hint of gold while the veins remain green and the stems have slight pink hue

never again will I use anything with VB besides.........VB
not even the p/k booster....which seems way to high in the K department for coco
maybe if I was in rockwool but not coco
 
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