Ice Box Water-Cooled Heat Exchanger - anyone using these?

[Nuglover]

Hey NG my grow shop has one set up on display hooked to a 1/4 hp chiller, there running a 600 w light, the chiller is set at 68 degrees, the air coming out is around 76, no condensation at all,[/QUOTE

Where is the display? In an air conditioned store I presume. Not exactly the environment in a sealed room with high RH.

 

[grizz]

its in a grow tent display, the humidity is around 50 % they have a complete hydro system running in the tent, I realize it isent at 60 to 70 % but even if it dripped a little what would that hurt if its actully helping cool things down?

 

[jdubz206]

nice info grizz...thanks everyone for the input...i am going to the grow store this weekend and will check to see if they're in stock round these parts yet..please keep us posted with any future info or attempts...i honestly think these things might be pretty easy to make, i've seen some ghetto diy air conditioners that used the same basic idea..not sure if it would require welding or not though, i'll look into it. peace. j :smiley_joint:

 

[Josey Wales]

I am considering trying one, feeding it right off a cold water pipe and trying to have something rigged to my well head to drain back to my deep water well. If this can be done I'm hoping to eliminate the need for AC in my to be built sealed room, as well as no chiller needed. Probably need 2, one for each 1000 watts.Maybe, if it works ok, the power I save from no AC would allow a 3rd light. Room will be bsmt, below grade, so should be easier, especially in summer to keep cool than an above grade room.

 

[grizz]

I am considering trying one, feeding it right off a cold water pipe and trying to have something rigged to my well head to drain back to my deep water well. If this can be done I'm hoping to eliminate the need for AC in my to be built sealed room, as well as no chiller needed. Probably need 2, one for each 1000 watts.Maybe, if it works ok, the power I save from no AC would allow a 3rd light. Room will be bsmt, below grade, so should be easier, especially in summer to keep cool than an above grade room.

you can deffinatly do that, don't know how cold your water is but if its cold enough it will help cool your room a bunch, even if you bought a chiller you would still save money on a/c bills

 

[Josey Wales]

I'm not sure how cold, gonna get a thermometer and check. Feels pretty cold, this is a deep well, only been in the house bout 6 months and can't remember how deep the previous owner said he went when the place was built.
I just gotta figure out how to rig the well head to run the return.

 

[Statik]

Can someone please explain to me how the water flow on one of these systems works? I am wondering if I can kind of build my own recycling chiller with some Rubbermaid tubs and a submersible pump. I would just add ice (maybe dry ice?) or something to the res (tub) to chill the water.

Thoughts?

 

[space101]

I just bought one of these yesterday, and I'm trying to run it on my DIY res chiller. This ain't gonna work I'm going to need a 1/10 HP chiller all I can afford and all my 15 amp fuse for the growspace will take.

As it stands right now the room tmp with the 1000w on for 2 hrs is 95F the res water temp is high 80's.

Ideally my water needs to be around 50F or lower to reach my target temp.

 

[winta]

i seen this too i was wondering if it worked

 

[JACKMAYOFFER]

Can someone please explain to me how the water flow on one of these systems works? I am wondering if I can kind of build my own recycling chiller with some Rubbermaid tubs and a submersible pump. I would just add ice (maybe dry ice?) or something to the res (tub) to chill the water.

Thoughts?

Ahh No that won't work,seriously think about it this is a circulating system meaning you have cold water going in and warm water coming out, you need at least a 55 gallon rez and a 1 hp chiller to cool 2 x 1000 watt and not a cheap aquarium chiller, I am cooling 4 x 1000 watters
With ice boxes and using a 2 hp Chill King chiller I have 3 grand in chiller Ice boxes and plumbing, I have the option to add 4 more 1 K and still be abel to add more with my split AC, It is cheaper to buy an AC unit then to run Ice boxes, Having both is the best of both worlds this enabels you to put the lights as close to the plants with out any heat issues... Jack

 

[purpleberry]

The heat exchange idea is great . I really think it would work better if you air cool the lights with out taking air out of the room, seal it up. Then run a heat echanger to cool the room. I may try this with my new tent and 2000w. 55g drum ,1/2hp chiller, radiator, couple fans. If you had pond to dump water in, or a river/lake to tap into, so you didnt need the chiller,you be set. I dont think a pool would work, it would heat up to much.

 

[kalikrop]

Hey i just got 4 of these things from a friend, he said he only used them one time, there in the box and look new. If anyone is interested in these let me know. Oh and i got 2 chillers too

 

[goodgg123]

Hey i just got 4 of these things from a friend, he said he only used them one time, there in the box and look new. If anyone is interested in these let me know. Oh and i got 2 chillers too

Kalikrop could you contact me regarding the equipment you have? Want to know what all you have.

Thanks

[email protected]

 

[Graywolf]

All I'm asking is if the water is colder than the air and the RH of the air is high...how can there not be condensation?

Condensation as you imply will depend on the % of saturation that the humidity is in the room and the temperature difference (Delta T) between the chiller and the humid air.

As the temperature falls, the air is able to hold less water in solution and it falls out of solution.

The engineering design requirement for such a system would be regulating the temperature and air flow of the chiller so that the air volume was higher and the Delta T across the exchanger was lower, so as to produce less condensation.

Convection heat is of course only one heat source from the lights and ballasts (if they are also in the room), with the primary source being radiant energy from the light itself.

It all went into the room as energy and has to go somewhere, because energy can be neither created or destroyed, only changed in form.

There are a couple of traditional ways to deal with the heat from the lights and water from the plants. Dilution ventilation to keep the heat and humidity down, vis a vis refrigeration and dehumidification.

Internal fans can buffet the plants and keep the oxygen boundary layers off their leaves, but some ventilation is required to remove the oxygen that the plants expire from the room, and during blooming that air can be highly aromatic. If smell is an issue, then that exhausted air must be treated. That is usually done with a carbon filter, ozone, or a negative Ion generator.

Using sealed lights with just outside air is an alternative to removing the convection heat produced by the lights (about ~20% of total) without having to treat the air. The chiller most directly competes with that cost.

That means that the incremental return on investment for a light exhaust chiller would be the capital amortization cost over the life of the unit, plus its operation cost and maintenance, versus the cost of simply operating a fan. Carbon filtration or the electronic alternatives to do the whole room is a separate issue.
Looking at the bigger issue of heat and humidity, removing the ~80% radiant heat from the room, budget versus level of control, are usually the controlling factors.

Dilution ventilation is cheaper to install and operate than air conditioning and dehumidification, as long as Mother Nature cooperates, but you can't reduce the inside temperature of the growing room below ambient outside temperature, simply by replacing the inside air with outside air, or keep the nutrient solution temperatures down for hydro.

From a design stand point, that is where I would personally use chillers and air conditioning.

For instance, if you used two automobile radiators for the heat exchangers, with a simple circulating pump between them, you could drape one with wet fabric and blow air through it to achieve non contact evaporative cooling in the second radiator.

Locally here in the Pacific Northwest, there is on average 21% F between wet bulb and dry bulb temperatures and we can achieve up to about 8 to 10 degrees of that difference in cooling through evaporation, or say 10 to 12 degrees F. In the dryer climates the difference between wet and dry bulb is of course much greater and the return on investment shorter.

The second radiator could also be replaced with a heat exchanger to cool just the hydro nutrient solutions for root rot control, and let the room temperatures float with ambient, if ambient was above ~85F.

GW

 

[xX Kid Twist Xx]

heres 2 videos 1 for the ice box and 1 for the chillers.and a link to their site.


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[YOUTUBE]CulolkUgyGc[/YOUTUBE]

 

[FogBoxer]

Ice Boxes work

I have a 6" Ice Box on a Hydrofarm Mondo reflector with a 1000w Hortilux Super Blue light in a 3x6 closet garden. With a 6" CanFan pulling air and tap water at about 50-60 degrees my room stays at 78 and about 50% humidity. It actually seems to dehumidify the room as well, I have the condensation from the coils diverted to the drain. I get free water so I just use from the tap at about 1/4 flow. I know of a guy who uses a swimming pool as his water source and it works great & heats the pool!

 

[InvisibleM]

Interesting.... Not all of the heat is caused by the bulb, light itself creates heat as it strikes objects. Not sure if it heats the air on its way or not. Anyone know how efficient the bulbs are? That would tell you how much heat as opposed to light is radiated by the bulb. I would guess they are maybe 95% or better efficient so light would be your main cause of a room heating up, not a hot bulb.

Hot objects also radiate heat as in radiant heat, it's just not visible....

Anyone have the facts?

 

[InvisibleM]

Your swimming pool is a good idea, also the earth can be used as a heat exchanger...

 

[pure arghan]

would use air con when you can aford it

its in a grow tent display, the humidity is around 50 % they have a complete hydro system running in the tent, I realize it isent at 60 to 70 % but even if it dripped a little what would that hurt if its actully helping cool things down?

no matter wot you are growing and how you are growing it you dont want any extra humidity, humidity is water to air ratio, so if it is raseing the humidity it is taking away air, and if you use a dehumidifer to bring the humidity down again you are taking even more air out of your grow space, i would't grow tomattoes under theses condision but then again i can now aford an air con, but back in the day i had to use the fornamed setup and can till you that i now get at least an extra once of each plant useing an air con, dont beleve all the clames that theses companys clame to do, at the end of the day look at wot man use's in every day life, theres a reason you dont have water cooled set ups in an office or home is because they dont prvide a good air invierment and if it ant good for us it ant good for plants, but if you cant aford an ac unit then use it seal some bud and get an ac, when or if you have an ac you must make sure they are vinteleatted right (very inportant) cheap ac's are as good as a expensive one as long as they are vinteleatted right, dont vent yours the same as your friends as all makes are diffrent, hope this helps :mysterymachine:

 

[watercooled]

The heat exchange idea is great . I really think it would work better if you air cool the lights with out taking air out of the room, seal it up. Then run a heat echanger to cool the room. I may try this with my new tent and 2000w. 55g drum ,1/2hp chiller, radiator, couple fans. If you had pond to dump water in, or a river/lake to tap into, so you didnt need the chiller,you be set. I dont think a pool would work, it would heat up to much.

Yep, I setup a room with 12 of these. The water comes from a well and is returned to ground through a second well.

It will remove a lot of heat, but will have trouble maintaining ideal temps without supplemental A/C. The well was producing 68 degree water and the room could be maintained at 82-86 degree.

A dehumidifier would be needed as well, but in this case a marine water cooled A/C was also used. - works pretty well:

Your swimming pool is a good idea, also the earth can be used as a heat exchanger...

You'll need an A/C. If you're going to use a pool I'm of the opinion that the IB's are a waste and I would just use something like these guys offer if a pool was available: http://www.coldflow-ac.com/