If California Legalizes Marijuana, Consumption Will Likely Increase.

[Seamaiden]

I'm not sure how much of the bill you've read for yourself, but I've gone through all sections that immediately affect me and mine. I am looking out for people like my own sons, who've suffered arrests and convictions for cannabis. Do I give a flying fuck about growers right now? No, I don't. Especially if they're white males who haven't suffered a thing from this war on drugs.

I'm weary of the elitism, I'm weary of the idea that somehow patients who use cannabis have more rights than anyone else. I've tired of the people who are really and actually worried about losing their completely and entirely unregulated market share. Oh, you're gonna pay taxes? Boo hoo. Jail.

Prop 215 did not legalize the sale of marijuana, but it did give ill or disabled people of any age the right to grow and share the plant and its derivatives on a not-for-profit basis.

If that was written by an attorney, then that attorney has *not* read the text and codes encompassed within 215. We are not afforded the right to do anything more than present the affirmative defense argument. Look it up yourself if you don't believe me. The 'right' to grow? Nope, we don't have it. The 'right' to share, are you kidding me? It does not exist within the current structure. It will under AUMA. But seriously, look it up yourself. Start right now and read three pages every day, you should be done in a month, which is just in time for November's vote.

She also hasn't been paying attention to the court rulings when she says that the legislature has 'overridden' Prop 215. This couldn't be further from the truth. They're regulating within its loose structure and in a manner that agrees, legally speaking. It leaves *less* room, not more, for interpretation. It allows full bans, and we've got them. Shoved right down our throats.

You know how we get rid of MMRSA laws? We vote them out or we trial them out. Who's gonna get that 'perfect' law on the ballot? The CCHI folks? Yeah, that's worked out great, hasn't it? Who's going to be that test case? I certainly am not.

Here's another breakdown everyone should read: http://www.mybpg.com/blog/bpg-supports-prop64/

 

[Seamaiden]

I have to admit I'm cracking up that she's irritated the tax monies *won't* be going into the general fund and that they're earmarked. What is the general fund if *not* a giant slush fund?

 

[SHIRDABZALOT]

In washington state the general fund is known as "the black hole; nothing escapes and no one knows where it goes or where it's allocated.

 

[Seamaiden]

I don't know how WA state's budget is handled, but here in CA voters have mandated what amounts to about 93% of the budgetary spending, legislature handles the other 7% IIRC.

Would you like to know how well the population of California balances its budget via voting mandates?

 

[Blaze]

Would you like to know how well the population of California balances its budget via voting mandates?

Very, very poorly. Giving the voters power over the budget sounds good in theory but it has been an absolute cluster fuck and probably one of the worst decisions in the entire history of California.

 

[Seamaiden]

No, not if the county lets you, it's guaranteed. Yes, they can ban outdoor. It's called a compromise. You can insist it's the greedy who have fueled this, but from where I'm sitting it's really the greedy who don't want the regulation that comes along with this ride. No taxes, no one telling you that you have to follow OSHA protocols, no worker safety standards. I just read an article about the sex slave issue in the Triangle, getting regulated means no more free women. What else? Oh yeah, no more sending your herb out of state for that premium price either. Arrests cut down, people taken OUT of prison, people already convicted getting their records expunged.

Oh yeah, that's some greedy ass shit right there, ain't it?

 

[Seamaiden]

its damn greedy. i live with 5 people who all have their cards.
that is 30 flowering plants. big girls; outdoors. like my god given right gives me. you know?

This is getting old. Read the text. If you're a patient and you maintain that status, AND it's not currently banned then you can grow what your doctor thinks you need. Unless it's banned. Which, by the by, is where we already are. So what's the beef again? You're not grasping the difference between medical use and rules/regulations versus recreational. AUMA is giving us ALL recreational, irrespective of your status as a patient, and it's dovetailing into what MMRSA is 'giving' us.

UNLESS the problem is that you *do* grasp the difference, and you're one of those people who believes that patients have some special status and rights that no one else does. I am not one of those people.

In the meantime, I'm glad that MMRSA hasn't impacted you negatively. This is not the case for the VAST majority of California.

under AUMA; we can cultivate 6 plants. PERIOD.
sorry. that is a joke. We all smoke massive amounts of pot. every day.... do the math

Dude!

IF YOU'RE GROWING RECREATIONALLY YOU'RE LIMITED, NOT IF YOU'RE A PATIENT, UNLESS YOUR LOCAL MUNI HAS BANNED IT ON THAT LEVEL, in which case AUMA saves your ass and guarantees a right to grow inside those 6 plants.

I'd really love to know where you are that you can grow whatever you like. Because where I am, the minute the MMRSA March deadline came about my county clamped down, but they were feelin' generous and allowed us 12 plants per parcel, regardless of number of patients. Oh, and by the by, we have to grow those 12 within the 100'sq canopy they decided to restrict us to. Oh! We get to have two patients living on each parcel. Regardless of size of parcel of course.

So, it's great that you get to enjoy what you are enjoying, but the vast majority are not in your position. You clearly don't give a damn about them, but I do, and others like me do and we understand what it means to not have such easy access.

legalization?

You mean we will have to go to the store and buy cannabis; because now we cant grow enough to even smoke the entire year?

legalization?

males/ females/ weather/ clones/ pests/ breeding/ disease/ herms/ phenotypes ; etc

6 PLANTS?

Anybody that farms anything can immediately see that is a fucking joke.
You are selling our medicine to Corporations; and forcing patients to buy from the corrupt state.

Bullshit. I'm saying enough of keeping it under the covers and hidden in the dark. Enough of the black and grey markets. Enough of the arrests. And enough of the fucking bullshit patients who think they have more rights to this plant than anyone else. THAT is something I have especially had enough of.

I will reiterate, READ IT before you sit there trying to discuss what it's going to do and not do.

Wow.... You have very little faith in your peers or your "scene" ; and lots of faith in liars and criminals.

My peers? Who are my peers? The people who think they have more rights to something than anyone else? The ones who are for continued arrests of people who aren't ostensibly patients? The people who are and have been making their living in the black and grey markets, 100% unregulated, 100% untaxed, some of whom bemoaned the WoD but now don't want it to end, because money?

My peers are thinking people who can read, string sentences together and make cogent arguments. Not the above.

what are you talking about? nobody gets arrested for cannabis in CA anymore.; if they use their brains.
an ounce wont even get you arrested..

http://theweedlynews.com/2016/09/05/ironically-prop-64-will-send-more-people-to-jail-2/

While a heartfelt and compelling argument is made here, it's not enough to counter everything else I've read and indirectly experienced, including one of my sons being jailed for having 1/8th on him, while currently holding both the ID card with recommendation, and you wanna know what LACSD charged him with? Smuggling. He was driving home from school. Smuggling 1/8th of an ounce. Another son has experienced legal issues directly related to cannabis as well. Record expungement for my sons is pretty much enough for me in this regard, because there's nothing in the current legal model to allow for them to get that done easily at this time. AUMA will.

Here's another article that discusses all the arrests made in California in the past decade, which includes the period since 2011. Please read it with an open mind, it is decidedly far less op-ed in nature than what you chose to share here.


Here's the story on that couple I mentioned. Has nothing to do with having an ounce on you while out and about, this was home.

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20160826/news/160829118/

updated: 8/26/2016 1:05 PM
Antioch residents face marijuana charges

Two Antioch residents face drug charges after officers discovered they were growing marijuana plants in their house, authorities said.

Kathy J. Piet, 38, and Bobby M. Puente, 25, have been charged with unlawful possession of sativa cannabis plants, unlawful possession of a controlled substance -- psilocybin mushrooms, and unlawful possession of drug paraphernalia after they were arrested at their house Thursday, authorities said.

Officers were called to the residence on the 200 block of Main Street for a report of a domestic disturbance, authorities said.

While investigating the report, officers uncovered the marijuana plant growing operation in the attic, authorities said.

The investigation led to the seizure of eight marijuana plants, growing equipment, psychedelic mushrooms, and drug paraphernalia, authorities said.

Piet was released from Lake County jail Friday on $25,000 bail, while Puente is held on $4,000 bail. Their next court dates are unknown at this time.

I wonder how you're going to minimize this fact. Because it's only one of thousands of arrests made for cannabis. Are you in favor of this?

I am for recreational. I am for medical. I am against the War on Drugs period, I don't care what it is, meth, smack, coke, acid, X, I don't care. The user should not suffer imprisonment for the use of when no one is caused harm, and not unless someone else is caused direct harm. Not this The State Of bullshit.

I am also keeping a close eye on what's happening now with the current set of legislation and future proposed legislation that we aren't going to get a vote on, and let me assure you, it's doing exactly what you're railing against AUMA about, but worse, because it's all focused on medical, no space for recreational.

 

[SHIRDABZALOT]

Yup its all a shill, bullshit corporate take over, candy coated in sheep's clothing. I have warned people repeatedly that this bill will do nothing but create revenue for the elite and criminalize all of us. It's sad.... but true. Even if it doesn't pass......they will figure out another way to fuck you. When it's all said and done we don't really have a choice of what they choose to shove down our throats. Cannabis is too big now and the vampires have already gotten a taste of the profits; now they want it all. The govt doesn't give back.....they just take more. It's a David vs Goliath situation; except in real life David don't win.

 

[Seamaiden]

That's my point! We're getting MMRSA shoved down our throats and believe you me, they've already gone through the case law to make sure it can't easily be challenged. Don't you want something you actually voted on and that gives everyone the right to enjoy cannabis?

 

[Seamaiden]

I welcome a good debate. There's been no name calling, though I am frustrated that I can't get you to agree with me.

I get your points, I get everyone's points. But the only way MMRSA is going away is with legal challenge, in court. That is expensive, incredibly so. I mean you're going to have to have at least $20,000K just to get started, so a case like that could potentially mean the whole house for someone. Do you see where I'm coming from? Also, the fact that my sons can't apply for many jobs because of legal problems with cannabis is more than this mother can take.

i got my card when i turned 18. one of the easiest things i have ever done in my life. if other people were too stupid; that is on them. every single person i know that smokes pot has their 215.

And that right there is what makes it so ineffective, along with the fact that 215 has given you a grand total of one right--affirmative defense. That means that if you're arrested, you get to say you're a medical patient in court. That's it. That is the only thing 215 ever guaranteed us.

 

[thunderfudge]

Gawd....all this talk of patients and rights yada yada.this is the man drawing another line in the sand between the haves and the have nots.
You might be gaining a few liberties but we all lose as a whole.there's no pipe dreams of owning a grow here anymore.the best i can will be working at one for the same wage I could get at taco bell.lol.
It's funny,a lot of the legal grows here...lots of the legal grows here are owned by the cash croppers who didn't follow the rules,but didn't get caught.
It's the little man that gets screwed in the end.they told us here in Washington if we voted yes we wouldn't be messed with whatsoever.they were just herding us into the slaughter house,and once they had us all in the next bill euthanized us.
I've always kept all proceeds from growing right here in my stomping grounds.buyed local,tipped heavy,spreading the love.I see more guys struggling here than I can count now that they can only grow 4 plants without being on a registry.
I do have friends with big money in thier corner that are chomping at the bit for auma to pass so they can go to cali and set up shop.I have a standing offer to come down and work.of course they have no plans of leaving any of that money in california.lol.
Once you throw that ball onto their court you're never going to get it back.be united,fight for everything,and THEN compromise.don't just take the first offer or you'll regret it.
I trimmed at a legal grow last month and it was the most disgusting thing I've ever seen.all anybody could talk about was money and it really showed in the final product.
Last night I actually ran out of flowers and had my girl grab me some from a legal store.$80 for 5 grams.it was so unflushed it burnt my nose and enflamed my throat.it had obviously been sprayed late into bloom as well.it burnt funny,smelled funny.I was really let down.it was my only choice tho.
Just a washingtonians' view of things.lol

 

[friend]

Everyone brings up WA, no one brings up CO (as the example of how to do it wrong). In the meantime, we're getting MMRSA shoved down our throats and bans of even personal cultivation in the deal.

You're right, no solidarity. I want the arrests to stop. Apparently you don't. I know that 215 never afforded us any real rights. AUMA will, especially where MMRSA doesn't. I want everyone to be able to enjoy cannabis, not just "patients." Why is there no love for recreational here? Oh, wait, I have that love.

The most vocal people I've been reading who are against AUMA are, to a person, white. And I suspect they're cash croppers as well (the anti-AUMA people I know are). They all say it's not good enough, but they don't seem to understand the true concept behind compromise. This is compromise, for everyone, that's what makes it so good. Not perfect, but then if we're shooting for 'perfect' I want to know, whose version? Because mine is different from yours is different from his is different from hers is different from theirs. Get it?

I am calling Bullshit on you . !
Please look you're self in the mirror, and judge you're self not me
I find this quote and you're stance on this position offensive at best.

 

[Blaze]

AUMA allows for a type 12 microbusiness category of licensing which allows cultivators to hold multiple licenses and therefore have full vertical integration if they wish. It also omits the distribution requirements set forth in AUMA for everyone which will impose considerable expense on cultivators, especially small ones. The type 12 license will be available to any anyone cultivating under 10,000 square feet provided they were compliant with prop 215 as of Sept 1, 2015 and a California resident in 2015. This is VASTLY less restrictive than anything in MMRSA, and will allow farmers to conduct sales directly to consumers, which is huge.

So let's see under AUMA, I can cultivate 4 times as much with the type 12 license as was allowed in my county before this last year, I can do so legally, I will be able to conduct farm to customer sales directly, I don't have to get gouged by distributors, and I can make my own value added products like edibles and extracts. Oh, and I won't have to deal with the whole bullshit collective model which has held back the cannabis industry in California for the last 20 years. Plus anyone over the age of 21 will be able to consume and purchase it legally, greatly expanding the customer base, without having to lie about a medical condition (which does a great disservice to true medical patients and discredits the entire medical movement), no more having to pay extra money a pointless recommendation from a back-alley doctor, and anyone will be able to grow their own personal smoke.

You know what will virtually guarantee the corporate take over of the cannabis industry? Existing growers refusing to participate, refusing to get permitted, refusing to pay taxes and refusing to participate. A big corporation is not going to think twice about dealing with regulations, licensing and taxation. Growers in California need to stop acting like a bunch of whiny little bitches and step up to the plate.

Legalization on any level means regulation, it baffles me that so many people do not seem to grasp that very basic concept. Either cannabis remains unregulated and the costly and immoral war on drugs continues, or it becomes legalized, taxed and regulated, like every other industry. You cannot have it both ways, to believe otherwise is childish and naive.

 

[Natural]

AUMA allows for a type 12 microbusiness category of licensing which allows cultivators to hold multiple licenses and therefore have full vertical integration if they wish. It also omits the distribution requirements set forth in AUMA for everyone which will impose considerable expense on cultivators, especially small ones. The type 12 license will be available to any anyone cultivating under 10,000 square feet provided they were compliant with prop 215 as of Sept 1, 2015 and a California resident in 2015. This is VASTLY less restrictive than anything in MMRSA, and will allow farmers to conduct sales directly to consumers, which is huge.

So let's see under AUMA, I can cultivate 4 times as much with the type 12 license as was allowed in my county before this last year, I can do so legally, I will be able to conduct farm to customer sales directly, I don't have to get gouged by distributors, and I can make my own value added products like edibles and extracts. Oh, and I won't have to deal with the whole bullshit collective model which has held back the cannabis industry in California for the last 20 years. Plus anyone over the age of 21 will be able to consume and purchase it legally, greatly expanding the customer base, without having to lie about a medical condition (which does a great disservice to true medical patients and discredits the entire medical movement), no more having to pay extra money a pointless recommendation from a back-alley doctor, and anyone will be able to grow their own personal smoke.

You know what will virtually guarantee the corporate take over of the cannabis industry? Existing growers refusing to participate, refusing to get permitted, refusing to pay taxes and refusing to participate. A big corporation is not going to think twice about dealing with regulations, licensing and taxation. Growers in California need to stop acting like a bunch of whiny little bitches and step up to the plate.

Legalization on any level means regulation, it baffles me that so many people do not seem to grasp that very basic concept. Either cannabis remains unregulated and the costly and immoral war on drugs continues, or it becomes legalized, taxed and regulated, like every other industry. You cannot have it both ways, to believe otherwise is childish and naive.

Interesting perspective. Taxed at a local and state level..right? How fed tax fits into this equation baffles me. Methinks this could be the proverbial straw that breaks the feds backs. CA legalization is akin to the entire eastern coast legalizing. I don't think a few grumbles here and there is gonna sway the majority vote..roll with the punches or go hungry.

 

[Blaze]

Interesting perspective. Taxed at a local and state level..right? How fed tax fits into this equation baffles me. Methinks this could be the proverbial straw that breaks the feds backs. CA legalization is akin to the entire eastern coast legalizing. I don't think a few grumbles here and there is gonna sway the majority vote..roll with the punches or go hungry.

Yep, taxed at both state and local level. The current taxation is still very confusing, we have been in the midst of trying to figure that out ourselves for our own collective in order to be compliant with the new changes in state and local laws. It will become considerably easier and more clear in 2018 when MMRSA and most likely AUMA take effect, and the collective non profit model sunsets.

Interestingly enough you can apparently pay federal taxes on cannabis sales, though the tax rate is high and write offs are limited. There is actually a specific form - 280e - for reporting illegal income. The feds want their money, regardless of where it came from it would seem.

 

[Blaze]

It also omits the distribution requirements set forth in AUMA for everyone which will impose considerable expense on cultivators, especially small ones.

Whops, that should read that AUMA omits the distribution requirements set forth in MMRSA. The MMRSA laws have a mandatory distribution model which will be a massive burden on cultivators, AUMA does not.

 

[Seamaiden]

The vertical integration question came up in that FB group, currently IIRC MMRSA allows limited vertical integration. I haven't dug into the licensing regulations proposed by AUMA though, so I can't really speak to those. You can!

I am calling Bullshit on you . !
Please look you're self in the mirror, and judge you're self not me
I find this quote and you're stance on this position offensive at best.

What part is offensive?

Interesting perspective. Taxed at a local and state level..right? How fed tax fits into this equation baffles me. Methinks this could be the proverbial straw that breaks the feds backs. CA legalization is akin to the entire eastern coast legalizing. I don't think a few grumbles here and there is gonna sway the majority vote..roll with the punches or go hungry.

I sure hope so! And another thing that I'm working towards, stopping the codified use of the term 'marijuana' and getting codified instead the term cannabis.

 

[Bulldog420]

as long as I get my commercial licence on my farm, I will vote yes.

 

[Seamaiden]

Whoever ends up in the high dez of SoCal, gimme a holler, wouldja?

 

[Blaze]

"So let's see under AUMA, I can cultivate 4 times as much with the type 12 license as was allowed in my county before this last year,"

If your county lets you. Why would they allow more Cannabis than they will even allow now; under medical? that doesn't make any sense.

They already do as of this summer, and I already have a county permit to cultivate 4 times what we were allowed before, and under square footage guidelines insteady of plant count numbers, so it is not a question of "if". Like it or not MMRSA is already law, it is happening, and that is the framework we will now have to operate within. The question at this point is which will be better for farmers, AUMA or MMRSA, and without a doubt the better choice is AUMA. I don't think people are realizing how incredibly restrictive MMRSA can be, it is far worse than anything in AUMA. If AUMA does not go through and we are just stuck with MMRSA, the entire cannabis industry in the state will be dealt a massive blow.

If you are strictly a black market grower, then yeah, both are probably not going to be good for you. But for those of us who want to move the industry forward and not be held back anymore, AUMA is a step in the right direction.