If California Legalizes Marijuana, Consumption Will Likely Increase.

[Bulldog420]

They already do as of this summer, and I already have a county permit to cultivate 4 times what we were allowed before, and under square footage guidelines insteady of plant count numbers, so it is not a question of "if". Like it or not MMRSA is already law, it is happening, and that is the framework we will now have to operate within. The question at this point is which will be better for farmers, AUMA or MMRSA, and without a doubt the better choice is AUMA. I don't think people are realizing how incredibly restrictive MMRSA can be, it is far worse than anything in AUMA. If AUMA does not go through and we are just stuck with MMRSA, the entire cannabis industry in the state will be dealt a massive blow.

If you are strictly a black market grower, then yeah, both are probably not going to be good for you. But for those of us who want to move the industry forward and not be held back anymore, AUMA is a step in the right direction.

This and your first post, brilliant. You are not only a great grower, but able to understand complex issues. I couldn't agree more with your points. We have had 2o years, and the pot heads are not getting it done. Like it or not, MMRSA is law now. Every regulation I am trying to adhere from comes from that regulation. Clean Green (the organic cert I have) is adopting many of their procedural regulations. SC labs just quadrupled their ability to test for more contaminates. Things are getting real, and the old school pot grower is about to become extinct. Evolve or die.

 

[Seamaiden]

Oh neat, you got certified! How was the process?

 

[Bulldog420]

It was pretty cool. They tested my soil for sulfates and salts. They make you list all growing nutrients and confirm they are organic. They make sure you have wash stations, hard surfaces in dry/trim rooms. Gloves, hair nets ext ext. The coolest part is the new forum they put up. You have to be a clean green certified grower, or a dispensary that accepts clean green to visit the site. Super easy to network, and find outlets for meds. Really some of the best money I spent all year.

Cost around 1200 plus 5$ a pound. They come out to the farm and guesstimate how many units you will produce. Max cost of 3k I think. They guesstimated low on my crop, which is nice.

 

[Seamaiden]

Jesus, they quoted me over $2K when I first investigated certification, and I wasn't producing anywhere nearly what you do.

 

[Bulldog420]

Been a while, might be off on some numbers. However I paid in full around 2,500.

 

[Blaze]

Very cool I was wondering if the Clean Green Cert is worth while. The fact that it gives you access to networking is a huge plus.

Maybe we will do it for 2017, I have already spent waaay too much time and $$ and stress just dealing with all the county and state regs, not really wanting to jump through anymore hoops till after this next harvest haha....

 

[Blaze]

No MMRSA is not law. It is illegal. You should fight for your rights more instead of bending over.

MMRSA will be dealt with after AUMA fails.
your lack of will to fight corruption is extremely disheartening. You are obviously far more of a consumer than an activist. What a shame.

It was already passed into law over a year ago you useless idiot. Yes, it is the law - that is a fact. And I can assure you I have done ten times more in the last year in my community for our 'rights' than you dim-witted slack-ass delusional 'cannabis warriors' will do in a life time.

It is really easy to be a worthless arm-char activist and whine, bitch, complain, and attack anyone who actually has a realistic view of things. But actually DOING something (you know, like crafting an ordinance and getting it on the ballot)? Well now, you high and mighty canna-activist can't be bothered with minor details like that now, can they? It is much easier to just complain, complain, complain and waste your time, spin your wheels getting nowhere. People like you are no better than the most hard line prohibitions - you contribute absolutely nothing to the industry, contribute nothing towards ending the drug war, and are exactly why we have something like AUMA, instead of a better initiative like CCHI on the ballot.

 

[Natural]

@Blaze is top tier really going to be capless? Do you think that would be a problem for all other tier licenses? It's a big pie and always has been..but could it theoretically become a small pie over night?

 

[Bulldog420]

I sent in my ballot yesterday, didn't expect how I voted but its done now.

@Blaze Don't sweat the activist. Us in the know, recognize those people had 20 years now, and can't even agree on the smallest issues. That ship has sailed.

 

[Little Hill]

AUMA allows for a type 12 microbusiness category of licensing which allows cultivators to hold multiple licenses and therefore have full vertical integration if they wish. It also omits the distribution requirements set forth in AUMA for everyone which will impose considerable expense on cultivators, especially small ones. The type 12 license will be available to any anyone cultivating under 10,000 square feet provided they were compliant with prop 215 as of Sept 1, 2015 and a California resident in 2015. This is VASTLY less restrictive than anything in MMRSA, and will allow farmers to conduct sales directly to consumers, which is huge.

So let's see under AUMA, I can cultivate 4 times as much with the type 12 license as was allowed in my county before this last year, I can do so legally, I will be able to conduct farm to customer sales directly, I don't have to get gouged by distributors, and I can make my own value added products like edibles and extracts. Oh, and I won't have to deal with the whole bullshit collective model which has held back the cannabis industry in California for the last 20 years. Plus anyone over the age of 21 will be able to consume and purchase it legally, greatly expanding the customer base, without having to lie about a medical condition (which does a great disservice to true medical patients and discredits the entire medical movement), no more having to pay extra money a pointless recommendation from a back-alley doctor, and anyone will be able to grow their own personal smoke.

You know what will virtually guarantee the corporate take over of the cannabis industry? Existing growers refusing to participate, refusing to get permitted, refusing to pay taxes and refusing to participate. A big corporation is not going to think twice about dealing with regulations, licensing and taxation. Growers in California need to stop acting like a bunch of whiny little bitches and step up to the plate.

Legalization on any level means regulation, it baffles me that so many people do not seem to grasp that very basic concept. Either cannabis remains unregulated and the costly and immoral war on drugs continues, or it becomes legalized, taxed and regulated, like every other industry. You cannot have it both ways, to believe otherwise is childish and naive.

B- im feeling kinda whinny. i am happy to compete in the same market place with you and the rest of the growers like us out there. Im not even worried about warehouse grows doing 5 crops/yr.

What worries me the most is capless grows. There are acres planted and being harvested as we speak in salinas and slo. Small time oil/cartridge makers are so done. Once the handcuffs come off in 2023 it will be in the central valley. Most will go straight to oil for edibles etc. Hemp...great, about time but cbd growers making value added products are done once it comes on line. Price of production will just be so damn low some overpriced backwood bathtub made cbd shampoo will be gathering dust on the shelf after selena gomez starts endorsing proctor and gambles product at half the price.

Now for flowers...the ever shrinking unprocessed flower portion of the market. I know there are local regs, quality control, and other variables that differentiate us from them but i see us getting steam rolled. They will be able to drop the price so low we could still get top dollar and be crushed when that top dollar falls 50%, before taxes. I have no faith the local govt will adapt fast enough for us to pursue a wine country tasting room type model to attract tourists. They resists every step. They dont care about the local economy. Especially where i am. They are fine with no services, no people, no traffic, no jobs because they are already retired. Little different where you are but nobody can afford there. 10k sq ft is down sizing for me so that sucks but ill deal with it for now. It may end up choking me to death. Flowers are old school but still strong...for how long?

Now how will your product get to market even with direct sales? Local shops just arent moving the flower. Cant have 600 people at your gate wanting to by an eighth everyday. Fuck driving to LA every month. Id rather work at the video store! Co-ops are a good answer. Many small farms making a big brand. Holding shelf space after you sell out. Doing all the annoying sales bullshit. Im into that model. Problem is they are a defacto distributor. Is it even legal under auma without a distribution license? Not sure. Still like it but its less control.

Im fine with competing against growers. Its those bigboys that im worried about. Those limitless fields of massive marketing machines shaping the next phase of cannabis that doesnt include us. That and our own local govt. Its not a level playing field and thats why i voted no. The propostition is not in my interest and people will still get jail time so fuck it and fuck sean parker. Those yes on 64 ads are straight up fucking lying. I dont care about setting back the movement if im forced out or have to sell out to some vc douchebag from New York. I dont care about new regs made by asshats. I dont care about taxes. All i care about is a job and it would have been nice if they stopped locking people up for a plant.

 

[Bulldog420]

So you are talking Fetzer vs a 2008 Egon Müller Scharzhofberger Spätlese Riesling. No room for both?

 

[Little Hill]

Neither are confined to strickly the california market. You still need volume to stay afloat. We are really restricted on volume. High quality, even now doesnt get you that much more than average quality. Most growers think they are the best. Most growers are also fetzer. How will they stay alive at fetzer prices? We keep talking about local economies. That means the shitty growers too. I dont want to be the only one in town doing well. I want the culture to stay alive. The literal mom and pops. The single mom. The hillbillies. The hippies. If there are 12,000 grows in the triangle. Should only the top 10% survive? How does that help the local economy? We are all adapting right now but some cant afford it. The southern tip is not reflective of the rest of triangle. Blaze is sitting in a good spot and way ahead of the curve but as prices drop even the top of the market will drop.

Mmrsa gave us some protection as small farmers. Auma did not. Thats why i voted no. The fact there is still prison time waiting for some sealed the deal for me.

 

[Blaze]

What worries me the most is capless grows. There are acres planted and being harvested as we speak in salinas and slo. Small time oil/cartridge makers are so done. Once the handcuffs come off in 2023 it will be in the central valley.

I am not so convinced that the capless grows are as a big a threat as many make them out to be. There is strong support for small scale, locally produced goods, and that movement is continually gaining ground, whether it be for food, wine, beer or cannabis. Small farmers, if they are smart, will not be competing directly with large scale producers. Have a little faith in the California consumer and other California Growers.

The central valley has already proven to be extremely unfriendly towards legal cannabis production. The reefer madness mentality runs deep there and is not likely to change for decades, so I am not very convinced that a lot of the local counties and cities there will allow any commercial production there. Everyone though the same thing when MCRSA passed, yet virtually every county in the central valley immediately banned cultivation.

Keep in mind that AUMA removes the handcuffs not just for the 'big boys' but for us smaller guys too. The restrictions under MCRSA, especially in regards to the mandatory distribution model, will be extremely expensive and difficult for smaller farmers to deal with. AUAM does away with the mandatory distribution model, which is huge, especially for small farmers. AUMA also does not allow vertical integration for the larger 5A and 5B cultivation permits so there will be restrictions to these larger grows, it is not a free for all.

I have no faith the local govt will adapt fast enough for us to pursue a wine country tasting room type model to attract tourists.

Having that wine country type tasting room model will be codified into state law with AUMA via the type 12 microbusiness license. This will be a gigantic boon for small farmers as the type 12 allows for full vertical integration for those cultivating under 10,000 square feet, and has less restrictions than anything under MCRSA. MCRSA allows for no such model - in fact it explicitly bans in. Without AUMA the tasting room type model, and the tourism it will bring, will never happen. In my opinion the type 12 license under AUMA is about as good as you could ever hope for as a small farmer, and is what we will be aiming for, assuming prop 64 passes.

Now how will your product get to market even with direct sales?

By working with a distributor. A good distributor is an important ally to have, and under MCRSA you will be forced to work with a very small group of state appointed distributors who will have ultimate control over the entire distribution network. Again, AUMA is less restrictive and therefore it is more likely that smaller distributors will be able to open up and stay in business. Under MCRSA we might be looking at less than a dozen distributors for the entire state, under AUMA anyone who applies, meets the requirements, and pays the fees can do it. Plus under AUMA you can do your own distribution (you will need the permit though). The larger cultivation permit holders will not be allowed to do their own distribution however.

Im fine with competing against growers. Its those bigboys that im worried about. Those limitless fields of massive marketing machines shaping the next phase of cannabis that doesnt include us. That and our own local govt. Its not a level playing field and thats why i voted no.

Of course it is not a level playing field, it never has been and it never will be. If we wait for a 'perfect' initiative it will never, ever happen. The pros of AUMA outweigh the cons in my opinion, and if AUMA fails and we are stuck with just MCRSA all the smaller farmers - every last one of us- will be totally screwed. Once 2018 rolls around only primary care physicians will be able to issue medical cannabis recommendations. That means 99.99% of both growers and consumers will no longer be legal. At this point in California it is either recreational use for all, or medical use for virtually none. I would prefer the former.

 

[Little Hill]

Good points. Central valley will open when the money starts rolling in to the the right people. Those central valley govts are bought and paid for by the ag industry.


The "its better than nothing approach" is giving in or giving up. When 19 failed they came with something better. I would love auma to fail and see something better. Of course its as good as passed. Polls are showing a win by a good margin to make up for a conservative push on actual election day. Being restricted to 10k is handcuffs once the price drops. I guess thats a big question. How low? County govt is also handcuffs. Do you see the BOS allowing tasting rooms? The state cant force them. It makes too much sense for them to encourage pot tourism.

The bigger picture...

Looks like we are fucked both ways but eliminating the "med" market doesnt stop the wild west up here. Doesnt fund more enforcement. It does force them to look at the problem differently. The triangles votes dont count but it will lose up here because the majority of people will lose. I may lose and shit, if i cant make it, fuck dude...think about it. Without the money it brings in the northern regions are Appalachia. Shit they almost already are. Its gonna be rough.

Do you see this as continuing the cannabis boom that started around about '02?

I see another economic bust just like the others that have plagued the north coast ever since the white man showed up. Its nice to think i have a fighting chance but i never plan for the best. My dealings with the BOS up here have me jaded. These people want us to fail. When my fees go to busting a neighbor or friend im going to feel pretty shitty. They arent real criminals. They dont need rehabilitation.

On the other side every permaculture hippy jackass thinks their high quality will be in demand cuz people will see how great full sun outdoor organic herb is. Nobody gives a shit in LA about their "sustainable practices". At least not enough to support the industry that is already here. Organic food is one thing but 100% of people eat. How many smoke? How many of them only eat and smoke organic?

Most people supporting auma aren't advertising it like the emerald cup folk. They are well positioned as are you and im not far behind but most folks are not. Few will benefit and good on them but their community will not. I hope im wrong about all this. I hope we see a new era of prosperity up here but id be happy with things just maintaining.

Nothing good lasts and ive been banking on that since i started growing around about '02.

Ill be going down swinging but you can say i told you so if im still operating in 10 years.

 

[Seamaiden]

When 19 failed they came with something better.

Who came with something better? CCHI? They couldn't get their proposition on the ballot.

Nobody gives a shit in LA about their "sustainable practices".

I think that's changing, based on my interactions down here with folks from the basin currently. The fact that I have already found a permaculture group nearby me in Joshua Tree speaks to that. La Copine on 247 being a packed house every morning they're open speaks to that.

I've spoken to as many people as I can about AUMA, just to get their take on it, irrespective of whether or not they toke. I have not met one person who isn't going to vote in favor of it, including many middle school teachers, a couple of nurses, Realtors, and various professions and trades. Very few of these people actually consume cannabis though.

And to be clear, MCRSA gutted my own opportunity for a seat at this table at the beginning of the year. MCRSA is being shoved down our throats, with little input from us. I started out as a recreational toker and I have love for recreational toking, I'd like to see that opened up.

This doesn't begin to address the legal changes/issues surrounding those with convictions.

 

[DrMcSkunkins]

When you tell people that they arent allowed to do something it becomes intriguing and they want to try it. When you make something legal it is a big deal at first but then people lose interest. Grown ups are like big kids, most of us anyway.

 

[Blaze]

The "its better than nothing approach" is giving in or giving up. When 19 failed they came with something better. I would love auma to fail and see something better.

Never gonna happen. The cannabis community is to fractured, petty and shorted sighted. There are a thousand steps to craft and pass a state wide initiative and most of the activists cannot even get past step 1, as was blatantly obvious with the last election cycle. Compromise is better than all or nothing especially when the outcome is certain to be 'nothing.'

Without the money it brings in the northern regions are Appalachia. Shit they almost already are. Its gonna be rough.

Won't argue with that, it will be rough. Most things worth doing are however. The black market won't go anywhere, there will still be plenty of people making money in the rural counties doing it illegally.

On the other side every permaculture hippy jackass thinks their high quality will be in demand cuz people will see how great full sun outdoor organic herb is. Nobody gives a shit in LA about their "sustainable practices". At least not enough to support the industry that is already here. Organic food is one thing but 100% of people eat. How many smoke? How many of them only eat and smoke organic?

We do not need a large portion of the population to smoke, or to even choose organic to support the industry. Take a look at some of the statistics of the alcohol industry and how many Americans consume alcohol and how frequently. A full 30% of people in this country do not drink at all. Another 30% consume less than one drink a week, on average. The top 10% of drinkers - 24 million Americans - consume an average of 74 drinks per week, and account for over half of all alcohol sales. The top 20% of drinkers account for 80% of alcohol sales. This is not a unique curve - The Pareto Law states that "the top 20 percent of buyers for most any consumer product account for fully 80 percent of sales." Prop 64 will massively expand the consumer base and consumption, which is good for small farmers.

Most people supporting auma aren't advertising it like the emerald cup folk. They are well positioned as are you and im not far behind but most folks are not. Few will benefit and good on them but their community will not. I hope im wrong about all this. I hope we see a new era of prosperity up here but id be happy with things just maintaining.

The emerald triangle is extremely impoverished and poor, we NEED a legal industry. An all cash, underground industry might sound good at first but in a reality it is a cancer on our communities. Almost none of the money generated from cannabis right now stays in the local area. Think about it for a second - Mendocino alone produces well over a billion dollars worth of cannabis every year. Yet our schools are some of the worst in the state, our roads remain very poorly maintained, we lack basic services like a mental health facility, our medical services are an absolute joke, and poverty homelessness has skyrocketed over the last decade. There are almost no real jobs left here anymore, there are no opportunities what so ever for the younger generation as they graduate, all of which cause a huge range of social ills from increased crime, excessive drug and alcohol abuse, etc etc. Maintaining the norm means that the emerald triangle will continue down this death spiral, you cannot support a community indefinitely with an illegal industry. Either we can try to transition into this new, emerging legal industry, which has to potential to reverse the spiral, or we can refuse to participate, which will absolutely ensure that the big corporate players will crush us.

 

[Little Hill]

Processing, trimming, manufacturing, maybe a few other jobs types will spring up but those wont be high paying...maybe trimming will be. I see a constriction of the industry not an expansion. This wont help the death spiral. The black market will still be here, sure, but the bubble 215 created will burst. Compliance means more enforcement. This is one of my biggest beefs. So much tax money dedicated to dui standards and other abuse bullshit. Nothing to really help the state provide services. Maybe local taxes will help but i dont think we are talking a windfall for local govt.

Im not against transition. I am transitioning to the compliant side and happy to do it. Happy there is a path. Lucky i am able to. Not happy with auma. Not voting for it. Can't support it just because we are stuck with it. Id prefer chaos and a mad dash to get a better bill in the next election. Better for small farmers anyways. The topography of this region, especially where the growers are now is not conducive to compete in the market unless there are caps on large grows. I hink about what i could do with acres of greenhouses and loads of vc money. I think i could still produce high quality at a massively reduced cost, bringing the whole market down and weeding out smaller competition. No pun intended. Im sure somebody is already scheming this up.

 

[Seamaiden]

We aren't stuck with AUMA. We are stuck with MCRSA. Blaze is 100% correct about 'our community' and how fractious and fractured we are. I can't have a debate about AUMA, for example, without a significant number of people resorting to name-calling, one person even accused me of being some paid Russian shill (huh??). I can see that AUMA has made a place at the table for as many as possible, I may take a seat at that table now that I'm relocated. And I am very happy that when it comes to state initiatives, I don't have to rely on my 'brothers and sisters' to help bring us into the 21st century.

I just learned that one of my kids has to register, in California, as a drug offender. For being caught with cannabis on college campus. A drug offender! This shit has GOT to stop.

 

[GrowGod]

We aren't stuck with AUMA. We are stuck with MCRSA. Blaze is 100% correct about 'our community' and how fractious and fractured we are. I can't have a debate about AUMA, for example, without a significant number of people resorting to name-calling, one person even accused me of being some paid Russian shill (huh??). I can see that AUMA has made a place at the table for as many as possible, I may take a seat at that table now that I'm relocated. And I am very happy that when it comes to state initiatives, I don't have to rely on my 'brothers and sisters' to help bring us into the 21st century.

I just learned that one of my kids has to register, in California, as a drug offender. For being caught with cannabis on college campus. A drug offender! This shit has GOT to stop.

So your son was caught selling mj on campus?