Is Organics Lacking? Bottles Needed?

[cannakis]

So can someone provide pictures of True Organics of their own built soil and show their girls Perfect with No yellowing anywhere as well as nothing else.?! All of their plants not just one select one.

Because I really think it's still lacking... The hydro store guy haha helped me a lot but he still thinks I need to use Bottled nutes to really push the plant to the fullest extent. I did buy a compost tea kit but should I snag some grow and bloom and BioHeaven?!?!! I just want the best and tired of all the bull shit!

I think I'm going to test my soil too

 

[ShroomKing]

It's true that organic soil is hard to dial in , inside. But once your recipe is refined it smooth sailing. I've seen tons of non deficiency organic soil grows.

Organic=Quality and Flavor.
Bottles =Quantity and Fast growth.

Pick one.

Just my opinion.

Peace

 

[eastcoastjoe]

It's absolutely possible and not as hard as one might lead you to believe. There's a simple reason why the hydro store guy says it can't be done without bottles but I'm sure you already know why that is

If your plants are not performing well in organics it's because somethings missing or out of balance in the soil and has nothing to do with organics WORKING or not. I'll throw up a few pictures later when I'm home but in the meantime, Google search grasscity no till and start reading that thread. Bluejay has some beautiful pictures on there to give you a idea of how well organics can work, I'm talking real organics and not some fermented shit in a bottle with acids to stabilize it. The only additives I use from a bottle are fulvic acids and silica and my plants have never looked better.

So can someone provide pictures of True Organics of their own built soil and show their girls Perfect with No yellowing anywhere as well as nothing else.?! All of their plants not just one select one.

Because I really think it's still lacking... The hydro store guy haha helped me a lot but he still thinks I need to use Bottled nutes to really push the plant to the fullest extent. I did buy a compost tea kit but should I snag some grow and bloom and BioHeaven?!?!! I just want the best and tired of all the bull shit!

I think I'm going to test my soil too

 

[slap14]

So can someone provide pictures of True Organics of their own built soil and show their girls Perfect with No yellowing anywhere as well as nothing else.?! All of their plants not just one select one.

Because I really think it's still lacking... The hydro store guy haha helped me a lot but he still thinks I need to use Bottled nutes to really push the plant to the fullest extent. I did buy a compost tea kit but should I snag some grow and bloom and BioHeaven?!?!! I just want the best and tired of all the bull shit!

I think I'm going to test my soil too

I only use ROLS (recycled organic living soil) with no bottled nutes at all. I feed with Compost tea, Worm tea, SST Tea and a few Nutrient Teas. I top dress a couple times per grow with different items depending on strain and plant needs.

I flower in three gallon tall containers. Very seldom do i have any deficiency issues at all. I personally believe organics give you a richer flavor/aroma. I also believe it's usually more potent and all around healthier. Again I'm just stating personal opinion not knocking what other people do.

The way I look at it nature has been doing it for over a 500 million years, so i'll bet on her experience over what the guy at the hydro store says.

Here are a few shots of some of my girls past and present.

ADUB KILLER

ADUB KILLER

ADUB KILLER

ADUB KILLER

COSMIC COOKIES

COSMIC COOKIES

COSMIC COOKIES

DRUNKIN UNICORN

DRUNKIN UNICORN

STARDAWG

Slap

 

[ShroomKing]

I only use ROLS (recycled organic living soil) with no bottled nutes at all. I feed with Compost tea, Worm tea, SST Tea and a few Nutrient Teas. I top dress a couple times per grow with different items depending on strain and plant needs.

I flower in three gallon tall containers. Very seldom do i have any deficiency issues at all. I personally believe organics give you a richer flavor/aroma. I also believe it's usually more potent and all around healthier. Again I'm just stating personal opinion not knocking what other people do.

The way I look at it nature has been doing it for over a 500 million years, so i'll bet on her experience over what the guy at the hydro store says.

Here are a few shots of some of my girls past and present.

ADUB KILLER
View attachment 591242
ADUB KILLER
View attachment 591243
ADUB KILLER
View attachment 591244
ADUB KILLER
View attachment 591245
COSMIC COOKIES
View attachment 591246
COSMIC COOKIES
View attachment 591247
COSMIC COOKIES
View attachment 591248
DRUNKIN UNICORN
View attachment 591249
DRUNKIN UNICORN
View attachment 591250
STARDAWG
View attachment 591251

Slap

Well said and beautiful plants!
Good to see you around.
I'm still crushing it in your old 5x5.
Peace

 

[cannakis]

It's true that organic soil is hard to dial in , inside. But once your recipe is refined it smooth sailing. I've seen tons of non deficiency organic soil grows.

Organic=Quality and Flavor.
Bottles =Quantity and Fast growth.

Pick one.

Just my opinion.

Peace

Thanks brother. I'm glad you said that, that's kind of what he was saying and I read that bottles bring faster growth.

I'm still doing both, just mixing my current mix with ProMix and use BioBizz full line, and re-amend my soil, but on a lighter scale, and basically use Both.

I'm going to pick with quantity and faster growth for now... I'm tired of pulling shit weight... Then really dial in my worm farm, compost pile, and soil mix.

It's absolutely possible and not as hard as one might lead you to believe. There's a simple reason why the hydro store guy says it can't be done without bottles but I'm sure you already know why that is

If your plants are not performing well in organics it's because somethings missing or out of balance in the soil and has nothing to do with organics WORKING or not. I'll throw up a few pictures later when I'm home but in the meantime, Google search grasscity no till and start reading that thread. Bluejay has some beautiful pictures on there to give you a idea of how well organics can work, I'm talking real organics and not some fermented shit in a bottle with acids to stabilize it. The only additives I use from a bottle are fulvic acids and silica and my plants have never looked better.

But see maybe that fermented shit Is good...?! Kind of like SSTs...

I only use ROLS (recycled organic living soil) with no bottled nutes at all. I feed with Compost tea, Worm tea, SST Tea and a few Nutrient Teas. I top dress a couple times per grow with different items depending on strain and plant needs.

I flower in three gallon tall containers. Very seldom do i have any deficiency issues at all. I personally believe organics give you a richer flavor/aroma. I also believe it's usually more potent and all around healthier. Again I'm just stating personal opinion not knocking what other people do.

The way I look at it nature has been doing it for over a 500 million years, so i'll bet on her experience over what the guy at the hydro store says.

Here are a few shots of some of my girls past and present.

ADUB KILLER
View attachment 591242
ADUB KILLER
View attachment 591243
ADUB KILLER
View attachment 591244
ADUB KILLER
View attachment 591245
COSMIC COOKIES
View attachment 591246
COSMIC COOKIES
View attachment 591247
COSMIC COOKIES
View attachment 591248
DRUNKIN UNICORN
View attachment 591249
DRUNKIN UNICORN
View attachment 591250
STARDAWG
View attachment 591251

Slap

Those are perfect! What's your recipe?

 

[slap14]

@cannakis

This is the last recipe I had written down, there may be a few tweeks here and there but this is basically where I start.
I store this in 55 gallon trash cans and recycle the used soil back into 55 gallon cans. I cook my soil for at least 90 days before use the first time around.


Soil – EB STONE 420 MIX 1.5 Cubic Feet
Compost – WORM .25 Cubic Feet
Compost – LOBSTER .25 Cubic Feet
Alaskan Humus - KIS .5 Cubic Feet
Compost – FUNGAL KIS .125 Cubic Feet
Coco - CocoGro 1.5 Cubic Feet
Soil Aerator / Rice Hulls 1.5 Cubic Feet
Worm Castings – Down to Earth 1 Cubic Feet
Buffalo Compost – Buffaloam .125 Cubic Feet
Soybean Meal 7 -1-2 – Down to Earth 3 Cups
Feather Meal 12-0-0 – Down to Earth 2.5 Cups
Fish Bone Meal 3-16-0 – Down to Earth 1 Cup
Crab Meal 4-3-0 – Down to Earth 1.5 Cups
Gypsum – Buildasoil 4 Cups
Oyster Shell Meal – Down to Earth 8 Cups
Azomite – Down to Earth 2.5 Cups
Humic Acid – Down to Earth 5 Cups
Alfalfa Meal 2-0-3 – Down to Earth 3 Cups
Greensand 0-0-3 – Down to Earth 2.5 Cups
Soft Rock Phosphate 0-5-0 1.5 Cups
Kelp Meal 1-0.1-2 – buildasoil 2.5 Cups
Bio-Live 5-4-2 – Down to Earth 2 Cups
Brix Blend Basalt – Buildasoil 6 Cups
Neem Cake - Buildasoil 2.5 Cups
Organic Rice 6 Cups

@ShroomKing

Dude you would crush it in a paper bag. I'm always following your thread in Grow Diaries and shit always looks pristine. Glad that tent worked well for you keep rockin it. Even if your going to the dark side (HYDRO) j/k brother

 

[Onetwothree]

Just my two cents...I'm on my first organic grow right now, feeding only ACT's, a nute tea here or there, and watering with silica and aloe. Built my soil after reading a ton of info on this site. I'm 3 weeks into flower and my plants have yet to have any deficiency. I did have slightly high N, but that was due to my first go round with building my own soil. The plants are happy as hell and so am I...no dealing with endless bottles of nutrients. I thought organics would be harder, but in all honesty it's super easy if you want to take the time to brew teas and keep your equipment clean.

Oh, I've been foliar feeding as well with calcium, epsom salts, and silica...once a week each during veg, might keep up the silica throughout bloom though.

 

[HippyFarmerT]

hi! Dont mind the tint..no better quality picturespossible on this particular mobile device :p but here are a couple quick shots from my garden today. 100% no til in 3 gallon pots. Fed water only + humic acid. In home made vermicompost, rice hulls\lava rock, and some Coco(~20%?). With buildasoils cover crop blend and Dr Earths organic microbe innoculant. Add 1 TSP Dr earth and topdress with vermicompost\worm castings between cycles and boom. No deficiencies anywhere at all. Bodhi's goji og in the flower picture, seedsmans Malawi black and g13 blueberry gum #2 are the two bushes in the front. Getting no til locked in is certainly a task but once you do, growing becomes almost boring, dirt cheap, and bud quality is honestly top shelf. Quantity follows quality. Peace

Edit: spending like 4 hours watching Dr Elaine ingham break down soil science on YouTube was truly the most valuable thing I could pass on from learning no til organics

 

[cannakis]

But you see I was getting great results with Just soil. But my plants are Definitely much happier and Fuller and thicker buds because of feeding BioBizz. Also adding OSA/28 and trying Deep6... When it's Just soil the Microbes have to break the ingredients down so the plant can consume the nutrients, so if you Build your soul And have liquid fertilizer then you are able to provide Immediate nutrition and it will break down the rest for me. I use almost 1/4 of advised nutrients for a light fertilized soil, Half of their All mix schedule, and my girls could Nlt be happier!!! I have Double the size of buds than when I fed Just water. And if you watch BigTime no till growers like Alan with Gage Green and Probiotics GroKashi, or themodern.farm they use no till BUT they Also use DragonFly Earth Medicine nutrients as well, and give Top dressings of EWC and GroKashi and other stuff Weekly if not Twice a week. So essentially they are doing the same thing as building/amending a soil and using bottle nutrients like BioBizz.

 

[slap14]

@cannakis

I'm not saying in anyway what your doing is wrong. However using Dragonfly is not anywhere near the same as using bottled nutes organic or otherwise. It would be like saying using Kelp Meal is the same as using BioBizz. The biggest difference is bottled nutes even organic bottled nutes use chelating salts and/or acids in their products to keep them stable. Those are not something a no till gardener ever wants in the soil, as they will minimize or damage the micro heard.

Just a quick test stick a PH pen in any bottled nutes and it will be in the 3's or lower. That in my opinion that's not something you want to put in your soil regularly if you're truly organic no till.

Again do what works for you. One way is not better than another just choices being made. However there are big differences in those two ways of growing fundamentally.

Slap

 

[HippyFarmerT]

@cannakis

I'm not saying in anyway what your doing is wrong. However using Dragonfly is not anywhere near the same as using bottled nutes organic or otherwise. It would be like saying using Kelp Meal is the same as using BioBizz. The biggest difference is bottled nutes even organic bottled nutes use chelating salts and/or acids in their products to keep them stable. Those are not something a no till gardener ever wants in the soil, as they will minimize or damage the micro heard.

Just a quick test stick a PH pen in any bottled nutes and it will be in the 3's or lower. That in my opinion that's not something you want to put in your soil regularly if you're truly organic no till.

Again do what works for you. One way is not better than another just choices being made. However there are big differences in those two ways of growing fundamentally.

Slap

As far as no til goes, as slap stated, the whole problem with bottled nutes are the salts that come with them and those salts mean that your soil is not re usable once you chop is it? Do you re use? I'm asking, not rhetoric. One of the top benefits of no til for me is never having to buy soil again because my microbe herd repopulates in weeks between cycles. Once salts buildup from bottled nutes you'll need a good long flush and to let it sit before it's ready again, if it ever even returns to starting quality that is. Great buds can be achieved allll ways, but sustainability and ease become a huge factor for most after growing for some time

 

[eastcoastjoe]

It's not a question of what's better per say, personal preference is what it's about. Bottom line is there are many different ways to skin a cat and no one way is the right way, it's about what's right for you and producing the best results you can.

I think everyone is just trying to answer your question , is organics lacking ? The short answer is No, but maybe it is for you because your approach ? The guys you mention that are no til masters are not what I would call experts and I would not model after them. If you want to see real no till results check out the thread I told you about or have a chat with coot and bluejay on Instagram maybe.

It's really not that serious, especially if your set on using synthetics like you seemto be. It's just a plant

But you see I was getting great results with Just soil. But my plants are Definitely much happier and Fuller and thicker buds because of feeding BioBizz. Also adding OSA/28 and trying Deep6... When it's Just soil the Microbes have to break the ingredients down so the plant can consume the nutrients, so if you Build your soul And have liquid fertilizer then you are able to provide Immediate nutrition and it will break down the rest for me. I use almost 1/4 of advised nutrients for a light fertilized soil, Half of their All mix schedule, and my girls could Nlt be happier!!! I have Double the size of buds than when I fed Just water. And if you watch BigTime no till growers like Alan with Gage Green and Probiotics GroKashi, or themodern.farm they use no till BUT they Also use DragonFly Earth Medicine nutrients as well, and give Top dressings of EWC and GroKashi and other stuff Weekly if not Twice a week. So essentially they are doing the same thing as building/amending a soil and using bottle nutrients like BioBizz.

 

[eastcoastjoe]

But see maybe that fermented shit Is good...?! Kind of like SSTs...

I'm not saying they don't work there just not necessary in real organics, I'm talking living soil. You could use only water and topdress with amendments and grow perfect plants that don't lack anything

 

[cannakis]

@cannakis

I'm not saying in anyway what your doing is wrong. However using Dragonfly is not anywhere near the same as using bottled nutes organic or otherwise. It would be like saying using Kelp Meal is the same as using BioBizz. The biggest difference is bottled nutes even organic bottled nutes use chelating salts and/or acids in their products to keep them stable. Those are not something a no till gardener ever wants in the soil, as they will minimize or damage the micro heard.

Just a quick test stick a PH pen in any bottled nutes and it will be in the 3's or lower. That in my opinion that's not something you want to put in your soil regularly if you're truly organic no till.

Again do what works for you. One way is not better than another just choices being made. However there are big differences in those two ways of growing fundamentally.

Slap

I'll test BioBizz nutes later today and let you know. And I definitely gotcha, wondered why they say to flush at the end. And I wasn't ever keeping the soil in the pots, I dump them out and amend the soil once I build up a used pile again. I don't have the time or space to leave everything in the pots and have 20gl pots when I can do the same in 2gl pots.! And honestly I believe tilling Is beneficial, as they did for Thousands of years, it creates a fermentation under the soil... Look up Dry Farming they basically do the same thing.

 

[Onetwothree]

I know it's a bit off topic, but someone brought up Dragonfly Earth Medicine...has anybody here ever used their products? I was thinking about picking up the fat flowers and seeing if it made any noticeable difference.

 

[HippyFarmerT]

I've heard of it! But I see, now that you explain your reammended pile I'd say if you're happy with your current harvests keep rocking :) no shade thrown, just throwing thoughts around and showing a successful no til! And sadly have zero input poisitve or negative for dragonfly.

 

[cannakis]

I know it's a bit off topic, but someone brought up Dragonfly Earth Medicine...has anybody here ever used their products? I was thinking about picking up the fat flowers and seeing if it made any noticeable difference.

Not first hand but that is All that Gage Green Group uses and they are definitely some of the Top breeders growers in the world right now.!

 

[Onetwothree]

Yea, I see a lot of the popular instagram growers saying they use it right now. That and OSA28 seems to be all the rage with the instagrowers. Problem is, we all know how sponsorship goes. I don't know any of the breeders or growers personally, so I'm just curious how many of them actually use the products they "hashtag."

 

[cannakis]

Yea, I see a lot of the popular instagram growers saying they use it right now. That and OSA28 seems to be all the rage with the instagrowers. Problem is, we all know how sponsorship goes. I don't know any of the breeders or growers personally, so I'm just curious how many of them actually use the products they "hashtag."

I'm pretty sure they Do use them. And Most big growers half the time don't pay for nutes everyone sends them shit for free so they can Test and Review it...