Is Organics Lacking? Bottles Needed?

[jumpincactus]

I only use ROLS (recycled organic living soil) with no bottled nutes at all. I feed with Compost tea, Worm tea, SST Tea and a few Nutrient Teas. I top dress a couple times per grow with different items depending on strain and plant needs.

I flower in three gallon tall containers. Very seldom do i have any deficiency issues at all. I personally believe organics give you a richer flavor/aroma. I also believe it's usually more potent and all around healthier. Again I'm just stating personal opinion not knocking what other people do.

The way I look at it nature has been doing it for over a 500 million years, so i'll bet on her experience over what the guy at the hydro store says.

Here are a few shots of some of my girls past and present.

ADUB KILLER
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ADUB KILLER
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ADUB KILLER
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COSMIC COOKIES
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DRUNKIN UNICORN
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Slap

Very frikkn nice man. Good to see you rep the organic side. I use ROLS and nothing but organic myself and have never had an issue with nutes. the problem with guyz that are crossing over I think is, they come from dro with all the bottles and expect the same yields as they got with hydro. This isnt going to happen in soil. Unless your beasting trees outside with 3 month veg cycles.. The science and dynamics will not allow it. I will add that I would much rather suffer a tad on yields and stick with the ala natural for the best taste and smell.

 

[Ecompost]

Just my two cents...I'm on my first organic grow right now, feeding only ACT's, a nute tea here or there, and watering with silica and aloe. Built my soil after reading a ton of info on this site. I'm 3 weeks into flower and my plants have yet to have any deficiency. I did have slightly high N, but that was due to my first go round with building my own soil. The plants are happy as hell and so am I...no dealing with endless bottles of nutrients. I thought organics would be harder, but in all honesty it's super easy if you want to take the time to brew teas and keep your equipment clean.

Oh, I've been foliar feeding as well with calcium, epsom salts, and silica...once a week each during veg, might keep up the silica throughout bloom though.

nice one dude,

just an idea you can think about.....may be you might want to look at something like a BAS for silicon, and skip the silica. Bacterial Active Silicon (BAS) is often called monosilicic acid (SiO4). Its not a nutrient, rather helps the plant to regulate its own internal pH sap, so thereby increasing the uptake of say Ca2 and P2O5 among others. You can of course foliar but as the plant grows, switch it a drench feed.
if you cant get access to good quality SiO4, you might want to try comfrey roots. I found using comfrey roots in my worm bins helped me add BAS to my media and also any teas including using it as a general top dress. it can also be fermented of course :-)

 

[Ecompost]

I'll test BioBizz nutes later today and let you know. And I definitely gotcha, wondered why they say to flush at the end. And I wasn't ever keeping the soil in the pots, I dump them out and amend the soil once I build up a used pile again. I don't have the time or space to leave everything in the pots and have 20gl pots when I can do the same in 2gl pots.! And honestly I believe tilling Is beneficial, as they did for Thousands of years, it creates a fermentation under the soil... Look up Dry Farming they basically do the same thing.

Bio Bizz is barely organic buddy. to quote a fellow grower "organic chemical fertilizer is a contradiction in terms"

 

[Onetwothree]

nice one dude,

just an idea you can think about.....may be you might want to look at something like a BAS for silicon, and skip the silica. Bacterial Active Silicon (BAS) is often called monosilicic acid (SiO4). Its not a nutrient, rather helps the plant to regulate its own internal pH sap, so thereby increasing the uptake of say Ca2 and P2O5 among others. You can of course foliar but as the plant grows, switch it a drench feed.
if you cant get access to good quality SiO4, you might want to try comfrey roots. I found using comfrey roots in my worm bins helped me add BAS to my media and also any teas including using it as a general top dress. it can also be fermented of course :)

Thanks @Ecompost! Always a pleasure to hear from you. Your wealth of knowledge is always appreciated.

 

[Ecompost]

I'm not saying they don't work there just not necessary in real organics, I'm talking living soil. You could use only water and topdress with amendments and grow perfect plants that don't lack anything

Living soil rocks :-) The thing to remember certainly for myself I think is that organics requires mineralization, this process is often bacterial. the process of degrading organics depends on the input C/N ratio, the temp, the moisture and the type of microbes present. In order to degrade say guano, you will need time and bioN, this must be in surplus to your plants N requirements. it is very possible by adding too much Carbon for example, to delay the decaying of organic matter and so tie up N, hence why they will always say N is a limiting factor of plant growth. There are many factors that impact it.
All organics have NPK values, but also C/N ratios. In order to get NPK from say Alfalfa, we need Bio N to be in excess of the plant N, but this excess must balance come time any decayed matter comes on stream. Further, plants release exudates which are not related to organic matter as we pipe it in, but rather more chronology. So if your organic inputs are not decaying at a rate that matches your plants exudate release, then its largely going to under perform come time to weigh up against synth mineral farmers. Organics is easy, unless you really want it to power super massive growth, then you can get mind boggled by its complexity. A rate of decay around 24:1 is ideal for short day crops like this. This wil provide 3-4 months of constant organics if you have mixed the C/N's right and you have the right temp and moisture levels :-)

 

[Ecompost]

Thanks @Ecompost! Always a pleasure to hear from you. Your wealth of knowledge is always appreciated.

happy to hear all you guys rocking it with Organics bro ;-)

 

[cannakis]

Bio Bizz is barely organic buddy. to quote a fellow grower "organic chemical fertilizer is a contradiction in terms"

Haha it Is definitely organic. They can't sell their new Acti-Vera because they are getting THE ORGANIC CERTIFICATION IN ALL STATES First before the USDA ORGANIC Allows them to sell as ORGANIC products.

You all say you're all organic yada yada, I say OSA/28 IS organic just NOT certified, just like a bunch of stuff. Me for instance I will NOT Ever certify my vegetable garden as Organic, it's a bull shit certification in my opinion.!

But THEN when I talk about a Truly Organic company with Multiple Organic Certifications you say oh oh oh noooo "that's" not organic...! It's fucking insane.

 

[cannakis]

Living soil rocks :) The thing to remember certainly for myself I think is that organics requires mineralization, this process is often bacterial. the process of degrading organics depends on the input C/N ratio, the temp, the moisture and the type of microbes present. In order to degrade say guano, you will need time and bioN, this must be in surplus to your plants N requirements. it is very possible by adding too much Carbon for example, to delay the decaying of organic matter and so tie up N, hence why they will always say N is a limiting factor of plant growth. There are many factors that impact it.
All organics have NPK values, but also C/N ratios. In order to get NPK from say Alfalfa, we need Bio N to be in excess of the plant N, but this excess must balance come time any decayed matter comes on stream. Further, plants release exudates which are not related to organic matter as we pipe it in, but rather more chronology. So if your organic inputs are not decaying at a rate that matches your plants exudate release, then its largely going to under perform come time to weigh up against synth mineral farmers. Organics is easy, unless you really want it to power super massive growth, then you can get mind boggled by its complexity. A rate of decay around 24:1 is ideal for short day crops like this. This wil provide 3-4 months of constant organics if you have mixed the C/N's right and you have the right temp and moisture levels :)

This is my point. Chelating happens at different rates, and so instead of relying Solely on waiting for the microbes to break down all the meals and minerals, I'm providing Immediate nutrients AS WELL as the Amendments in the soil.
All of you act like I haven't been doing ROLS... I've been doing it for 2.5 years. Just tired of wimpy results. I want Weight not half the amount with a "better tasting" product, I Know the taste is going to be the same but I'll have double the weight.!

 

[Ecompost]

Haha it Is definitely organic. They can't sell their new Acti-Vera because they are getting THE ORGANIC CERTIFICATION IN ALL STATES First before the USDA ORGANIC Allows them to sell as ORGANIC products.

You all say you're all organic yada yada, I say OSA/28 IS organic just NOT certified, just like a bunch of stuff. Me for instance I will NOT Ever certify my vegetable garden as Organic, it's a bull shit certification in my opinion.!

But THEN when I talk about a Truly Organic company with Multiple Organic Certifications you say oh oh oh noooo "that's" not organic...! It's fucking insane.

if its carbon based its organic :-) its well know for us Europeans mate Bio bizz i mean, piss weak over priced muck and its not like I couldnt buy your USDA officals with some well placed holidays abroad for the conveyancer . Dont forget, the dutch are well know for injecting beef proteins in to pork and chicken to increase water to meat ratios and then selling it as Halah too, but as you wish bro.
Bio Floret is real organics and 3 times more potent than bio bizz and 1/3 less the TCO. Bio Bizz is some old shit no one uses over here unless they are a chav

 

[cannakis]

if its carbon based its organic :) its well know for us Europeans mate Bio bizz i mean, piss weak over priced muck and its not like I couldnt buy your USDA officals with some well placed holidays abroad for the conveyancer . Dont forget, the dutch are well know for injecting beef proteins in to pork and chicken to increase water to meat ratios and then selling it as Halah too, but as you wish bro.
Bio Floret is real organics and 3 times more potent than bio bizz and 1/3 less the TCO. Bio Bizz is some old shit no one uses over here unless they are a chav

Haha damn! I like to hear a well founded opposing view.

Chav?!?

Haha and NOOO NONE of our politicians, I mean Statesmen;) Ever give into Extortion.! I mean it's not like Monsanto Executives are USDA and FDA Executives...;). You know and Bayer which is a Favorite company and Controller here, but it's not like they were a Nazi company RAN BY Joseph Mengele whose father Started Bayer!!! Noo none of that is real...;)

 

[Ecompost]

Haha damn! I like to hear a well founded opposing view.

Chav?!?

Haha and NOOO NONE of our politicians, I mean Statesmen;) Ever give into Extortion.! I mean it's not like Monsanto Executives are USDA and FDA Executives...;). You know and Bayer which is a Favorite company and Controller here, but it's not like they were a Nazi company RAN BY Joseph Mengele whose father Started Bayer!!! Noo none of that is real...;)

LMFAO chav is the name of a welfare accepting jerry Springer type :-)

 

[Ecompost]

Haha damn! I like to hear a well founded opposing view.

Chav?!?

Haha and NOOO NONE of our politicians, I mean Statesmen;) Ever give into Extortion.! I mean it's not like Monsanto Executives are USDA and FDA Executives...;). You know and Bayer which is a Favorite company and Controller here, but it's not like they were a Nazi company RAN BY Joseph Mengele whose father Started Bayer!!! Noo none of that is real...;)

post of the day by the way LOL

 

[ken dog]

Eurocentric rant... means nothing to Americans.

 

[cannakis]

Eurocentric rant... means nothing to Americans.

What does this mean? I mean I know, but Why are you saying it?!!

 

[cannakis]

As far as no til goes, as slap stated, the whole problem with bottled nutes are the salts that come with them and those salts mean that your soil is not re usable once you chop is it? Do you re use? I'm asking, not rhetoric. One of the top benefits of no til for me is never having to buy soil again because my microbe herd repopulates in weeks between cycles. Once salts buildup from bottled nutes you'll need a good long flush and to let it sit before it's ready again, if it ever even returns to starting quality that is. Great buds can be achieved allll ways, but sustainability and ease become a huge factor for most after growing for some time

I reuse the soil. BioBizz has their Amended "super soil" All Mix and they say to reuse, they actually have you do a No Till too... Pull the root ball after sitting a couple days, mix in their Worm Humus and PreMix let sit a couple days and your good to go, replant directly in. And you Still use their nutrients, just a Lot less than if you had a Light Mix.

And a point I tried to make over in rollitup organics, which those guys get fired up when I get on there talkin... But Soil Borne Diseases ARE developed when you grow the Same Plant in the same area for consecutive sessions. This is why Crop Rotation has been used for Thousands of years!!!

So to combat this I leave my used soil outside and let it pile up and just let nature takes it course and let weeds grow up all around it, this way instead of growing Squashes and Corn and Peas and THEN Hemp again I just let the weed seed grow up and add diversity to the soil to Prevent Disease.

 

[ken dog]

What does this mean? I mean I know, but Why are you saying it?!!

Because when you go after the USDA and our politicians, and our Customs enforcement, the need to point out a rant became clear.

 

[cannakis]

It's not a question of what's better per say, personal preference is what it's about. Bottom line is there are many different ways to skin a cat and no one way is the right way, it's about what's right for you and producing the best results you can.

I think everyone is just trying to answer your question , is organics lacking ? The short answer is No, but maybe it is for you because your approach ? The guys you mention that are no til masters are not what I would call experts and I would not model after them. If you want to see real no till results check out the thread I told you about or have a chat with coot and bluejay on Instagram maybe.

It's really not that serious, especially if your set on using synthetics like you seemto be. It's just a plant

Haha why do you say they're Not ROLS masters?!?! I'd have to respectfully Completely Disagree. Not saying you're buddies aren't good either.

But I Am saying Pure Amended Soil with only Water Does lack in production, because of the Chelating which Has to take place Before the plants absorb, hence why I'm saying Amend your Soil AND Feed with nutrients.

And instead of feeding Teas, which is what I used to do, I'm sticking with a company that Strictly develops ORGANIC NUTRIENTS For Hemp!

Like I said I've spent 7 Years Make-Shifting my Grows, actually used GO Organic box, and BMO Lineup, and I felt it was lacking so I went to building my soil. Much better results but after almost 2 years I have realized it is Still lacking something, Readily Available Nutrients, which are absorbed immediately and Then the Amendments in the soil are broken down more and used after.

 

[ken dog]

I reuse the soil. BioBizz has their Amended "super soil" All Mix and they say to reuse, they actually have you do a No Till too... Pull the root ball after sitting a couple days, mix in their Worm Humus and PreMix let sit a couple days and your good to go, replant directly in. And you Still use their nutrients, just a Lot less than if you had a Light Mix.

And a point I tried to make over in rollitup organics, which those guys get fired up when I get on there talkin... But Soil Borne Diseases ARE developed when you grow the Same Plant in the same area for consecutive sessions. This is why Crop Rotation has been used for Thousands of years!!!

So to combat this I leave my used soil outside and let it pile up and just let nature takes it course and let weeds grow up all around it, this way instead of growing Squashes and Corn and Peas and THEN Hemp again I just let the weed seed grow up and add diversity to the soil to Prevent Disease.

No, crop rotation is because different plants deplete the soil of nutrients differently.

.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crop_rotation

Fair use excerpt:

Growing the same crop in the same place for many years in a row disproportionately depletes the soil of certain nutrients.

 

[cannakis]

I'm not saying they don't work there just not necessary in real organics, I'm talking living soil. You could use only water and topdress with amendments and grow perfect plants that don't lack anything

See you're TopDressing.!!! You are Adding nutrients fertilizers During grow. It's the Same thing I'm doing but it's A Fermented Processed Organic Bottled nutrient.

 

[cannakis]

Because when you go after the USDA and our politicians, and our Customs enforcement, the need to point out a rant became clear.

But hey, nice rant. :)

"Our" politicians and customs? You said Euro rant... I don't understand what you are saying?!!!

No, crop rotation is because different plants deplete the soil of nutrients differently.

And You Need to do some research because that's Exactly why crop rotation exists, to prevent Soil Borne disease. And yes of course Peas Add nitrogen to soil, Cabbage Depletes it tremendously, but that's what More Manure is for.

Thus is just from a Quick Google search... Lots more out there buddy.
http://m.westernfarmpress.com/management/crop-rotation-method-disease-control

http://www.sare.org/Learning-Center...on/Managing-Plant-Diseases-With-Crop-Rotation