Is this a cal-mag deficiency?

[Tex]

Pest doin' that..? Hmmm.. I wouldn't think so, I could be wrong tho, am a lot. The twisting leaves and rust looks like ph issues and lockout. I used to get this looong time ago, when my ph was off in my aero unit. It would lockout nutes and F everything up. Looks identical ime.

Get ya some Age Old and stop worrying my friend. I use it on everything from Mary Jane, veg and fruit gardens, to citrus & palm trees on the farm out here. :harvest:

 

[andy107]

Okay, I'll try again. Any pest activity in the room Andy?

Sorry I missed you lol. But no, I havent seen any pests. :)

 

[andy107]

Pest doin' that..? Hmmm.. I wouldn't think so, I could be wrong tho, am a lot. The twisting leaves and rust looks like ph issues and lockout. I used to get this looong time ago, when my ph was off in my aero unit. It would lockout nutes and F everything up. Looks identical ime.

Get ya some Age Old and stop worrying my friend. I use it on everything from Mary Jane, veg and fruit gardens, to citrus & palm trees on the farm out here. :harvest:

Thanks for all the info bro, but its just that i just bought these nutes not long ago (havent used them through a single grow yet)..But i will def keep that brand in mind in the future! Im pretty set on switchin to coco or promix my next run..It seems to me that i would have much more control of my grow. and no more having to guess what and how much is in my soil and for how long..if that makes sense lol.

 

[Tex]

Im pretty set on switchin to coco or promix my next run..It seems to me that i would have much more control of my grow. and no more having to guess what and how much is in my soil and for how long..if that makes sense lol.

Hmm.. It's about what you're wanting to smoke on & grow in, what medium.. Are you wanting organic sweetness in your smoke or a more soilless smoke? Hydro, Coco, Sunshine Mix #4, or Promix are soilless and have very little to no buffer zone for errors for the most part. You have to give them what they want and know your plants, know to read them better & growing much more. FFOF soil is a nutrient rich cocktail of great stuff, strongly used and recommended in the real world of gardening. It's alive and active w great things and when used w organics it is superior. It can run a bit warm but just don't fertilize for a couple of weeks or give them 1/4 strength of your clean organic nutes.

I like to use FFOF soil and A.O. I also use SS#4 and Age Old and it kicks ass, too. FFOF soil is very simple to use if ya use a good nute base that's not too complex. ie Age Old Organics. You can also, cut your FFOF w/20-30% chunky perlite and have a lighter mix. I believe that's what OGR does.. ;)

Thanks for all the info bro, but its just that i just bought these nutes not long ago (havent used them through a single grow yet)..But i will def keep that brand in mind in the future!

I understand completely, bro..

On a side note: Age Old, it's like $12/bottle and they have been around for years. Buy them and do a side by side grow for us here, as an experiment in FFOF. IMVHO, it's better, cheaper and easier to just start again w a known easy kick ass nute product than keep stressin' out your plants w ph acid or bases,, which in turn affects>quality smoke>yield>business, etc. just tryin' to help.. :harvest:

 

[Legion]

Sorry guys, forgot to fill you in on everything..this girl has been in FFOF soil for a little over 30 days..mixed my first batch of nutes to strong (fox farm Big bloom). Gave a good flush once i seen the clawing and yellow leaves. after i flushed her i started nutes again..but switched to general organics bio thrive bloom. Fed once with that and then this started. my ph is 6.5 btw.

This might be a little old but this is one of the oldest mistakes in the book.. if there was a book.. lol

BIG BLOOM is not a complete nutrient.. it's just a bat guano / earth worm tea. You should have been using TIGER BLOOM. That's the food..

Big Bloom is 0.01 - 0.3 - 0.7 NPK.. there is no way in hell you have too much food from that... lol

30 days with no food, only soil? To me that's way too long.

Also, I don't see FFOF as being 'hot' by any means. When I've used it in the past I'd go 50/50 with power flower soil to make it stronger and still didn't have any problems.

 

[andy107]

Thanks everyone for all the info and advice! I just picked up some soil today but went with roots organics, figured id give it a shot.

I guess the easiest way to solve my problem with over feeding nutes would be to ask a simple question lol, how do i tell when they want nutes?

 

[andy107]

So i transplanted my apes into 3 gal pots and have been giving them nothing but water but still no improvement..whats worse is that the cuts i took from these plants are just beginning to show the same problems..My alien bubba and the cuts i took from it on the other hand are in the same soil, same room and fed exactly the way the grape apes were have no signs of the problems the apes are having.

Here are some recent pics, 2 days after transplant. (last 3 pics are alien bubba)

 

[lil miss lone]

Just my take on it bro, take it or leave it.

That damage looks to me like root aphids, leaf necrosis, burnt tips, upward curl. However you said no bugs in the room. Your nute schedule looks fine to me. I don't see how it could be any of the environmental factors you mentioned. Two scenarios come to my mind. One, you may have root aphids, they live in the root zone and are hard to see unless your looking for them specifically. Do you have a plant that you can tear up to inspect the root zone closely? Maybe a plant that was on the way to the trash can anyway? My second thought, if absolutely no bugs are present, is that they may have a virus, transmitted at one time by aphids. I had both. I took clones from, and threw away all mothers, treated the clones, cleaned out the closet, and was rid of the bugs. A couple weeks into veg I started to notice the leaf death signs that I'd associated with the aphids, however I tore apart the clones and no bugs, at all.

Anyway you can take a good, clear close up of the drainholes on the pots? Aphids congregate around drainholes and leave behind a white fungus looking substance that reminds me of mycelium (if your a shroom grower or have seen them grown you know what I'm talking about).

 

[MMJInsiders]

You flushed before the the transplant in the old medium and then transplanted into new medium? Any funky stink to the root ball? Is their any NPK to the Roots Organic you transplanted into (not familiar with their products)?

If you flushed and or transplanted you should be ready to nute right away. Start 1/4 strength and bring them up from there. Make sure you are on top of your PH and give them time. They will not instantly respond, visibly. It will take a few days. Watch the new growth for signs of improvement. Not sure if you are using any other addy's but stick to the basics, a good base with a little cal-mag should do you fine. If you haven't already, raise the lights until they start to improve and keep your temps in check. Also, if you smelled a funky stink coming from the root ball during transplant add an enzyme product to help break down the decaying matter. You can use a product like hygrozyme but any pond enzyme will do.

Back when I grew soil-less I would amend the soil with a little pelletized lime to help keep a balance in the medium. That and azomite for trace... Cheap insurance.

 

[andy107]

Just my take on it bro, take it or leave it.

That damage looks to me like root aphids, leaf necrosis, burnt tips, upward curl. However you said no bugs in the room. Your nute schedule looks fine to me. I don't see how it could be any of the environmental factors you mentioned. Two scenarios come to my mind. One, you may have root aphids, they live in the root zone and are hard to see unless your looking for them specifically. Do you have a plant that you can tear up to inspect the root zone closely? Maybe a plant that was on the way to the trash can anyway? My second thought, if absolutely no bugs are present, is that they may have a virus, transmitted at one time by aphids. I had both. I took clones from, and threw away all mothers, treated the clones, cleaned out the closet, and was rid of the bugs. A couple weeks into veg I started to notice the leaf death signs that I'd associated with the aphids, however I tore apart the clones and no bugs, at all.

Anyway you can take a good, clear close up of the drainholes on the pots? Aphids congregate around drainholes and leave behind a white fungus looking substance that reminds me of mycelium (if your a shroom grower or have seen them grown you know what I'm talking about).

I really dont want to have to rip one of them up but if I have to I will. What would I be looking for in the roots? Is it normal for aphids to attack only one strain in a room with other strains?

"I took clones from, and threw away all mothers, treated the clones, cleaned out the closet, and was rid of the bugs."

I thought about doing this the other day. Taking clones from my mom and then tossin her. How would I go about treating aphids and/or an aphid virus?

Sorry for all the questions lol..here are the pictures you requested, I also added one of a clone I took from the mom. Wanted to get an opinion on whether or not its savable. Thanks for all the input btw!

 

[andy107]

5 mins after my last post, I went and started looking at the girls some more..I had some bamboo stakes in the pot with my Grape ape mom. Idk why but I decided to pull them out, I set the first one down and pulled the second one out and Im not sure how I was able to see this, but there was a TINY little white centipede lookin thing runnin all up and down that stake. I dont know what root aphids look like so it might not be one, but either way I yanked all the plants outta the room, planning on killing the 2 momma apes. And I'd like to try and save the clones, how do I go about this?

Now, Its bleach and water time bitches!

 

[lil miss lone]

Bleach and water is good. I'd suggest new panda and pots as well. Pictures of the plants overall, the deficiencies for no reason at all type situations speaks volumes. Aphids are a bitch, and I do believe starting over is best, from seed if possible. But I'm a little extreme. As to how to treat the clones, If its aphids I'd do a dip completly in Spectracide found out Home DePot. I believe my stuff had a virus though, because of the lack of bugs to my eyes upon tearing apart a rooted and transplanted clone.

 

[lil miss lone]

I really dont want to have to rip one of them up but if I have to I will. What would I be looking for in the roots? Is it normal for aphids to attack only one strain in a room with other strains?

"I took clones from, and threw away all mothers, treated the clones, cleaned out the closet, and was rid of the bugs."

I thought about doing this the other day. Taking clones from my mom and then tossin her. How would I go about treating aphids and/or an aphid virus?

Sorry for all the questions lol..here are the pictures you requested, I also added one of a clone I took from the mom. Wanted to get an opinion on whether or not its savable. Thanks for all the input btw!

It looks like this is a recent transplant?? I don't see the white fuzzy looking stuff around the drainholes. If you don't clearly see an abundance of flyers that look (but don't act) like fungus gnats you might see the fast moving white crawlies on top of your medium. Scratch around abit in the top inch or two of your medium and look real close at the inside rim of your pot, you'd see the crawlies. Dude once said his friend tore up a clone and saw little tank beetle looking bugs colonizing between the rockwool cube and the medium. If you look at the roots they will be brown and withered looking. It is normal for only one or two plants to appear affected and not all in the room. Once the aphid population in that one or two plant gets congested the aphids will sprout wings and fly on to attack other plants. As for wether or not that one clone is savable bro, fuck it, kill it, its not worth it. yield will suffer in the end anyway, after all the time and energy nutes etc you would have waisted it ain't worth it.

 

[andy107]

So I went and ripped up a clone and tore apart its root mass to find nothing. No bugs, no mold like growth. I also dug into the soil of the mom (which had the bug) about 3 inches and found nothing.

So now I dont know what im supposed to do..I really thought this was a cal mag issue. I mean they have all the cal mag deficient symptoms..Yellow burnt leaves, leaves curling upward, yellow leaves with green veins etc, they have all that..but just because I didnt find anymore bugs doesn't mean there aren't any..If there was one then its guaranteed that there are more..so I guess chop chop.

 

[amstercal]

How did the roots look when you tore them apart? White and fluffy, brown? How did they smell? Any too-sweet tomatoes?

I'm not going to be much help here, but unfortunately, I don't know how to narrow it down for you. If it is root aphids, I tore apart a plant that had a big colony, like something out of Indiana Jones, but only in a couple square inches of a couple gallon pot. If I hadn't seen that particular section, I would have missed them. Go sit in front of your worst plant and just stare at the soil a while, maybe the answer will reveal itself. I'm actually not being sarcastic. I did this for about ten minutes with a plant and saw one of the white crab looking root aphids crawl out.

At the same time, your plants don't look exactly like what I saw with ra damage, but that could vary based on lots of factors. Either way I'd say you have root damage of some kind. The overfeeding could have been a factor, but then your new clones shouldn't have the problem.

How do you check your pH? Also hopefully someone more familiar with soil and your nutes can help you with that as a possibility.

You might have root aphids, but I always believe in taking a minute to figure out the problem so I learn.

 

[lazarus718]

Hey Lazarus what u doin with a picture of my woman as your avatar.

Sorry bro, didn't even see this till I was trolling around today! That's MY hottie man, she's toking some of my green right now... Sorry for hijacking your thread for a minute Andy, what did you do as far as Cal/Mag goes for fixing this problem, I don't think it is bugs at all bro!!!!

 

[andy107]

How did the roots look when you tore them apart? White and fluffy, brown? How did they smell? Any too-sweet tomatoes?

I'm not going to be much help here, but unfortunately, I don't know how to narrow it down for you. If it is root aphids, I tore apart a plant that had a big colony, like something out of Indiana Jones, but only in a couple square inches of a couple gallon pot. If I hadn't seen that particular section, I would have missed them. Go sit in front of your worst plant and just stare at the soil a while, maybe the answer will reveal itself. I'm actually not being sarcastic. I did this for about ten minutes with a plant and saw one of the white crab looking root aphids crawl out.

At the same time, your plants don't look exactly like what I saw with ra damage, but that could vary based on lots of factors. Either way I'd say you have root damage of some kind. The overfeeding could have been a factor, but then your new clones shouldn't have the problem.

How do you check your pH? Also hopefully someone more familiar with soil and your nutes can help you with that as a possibility.

You might have root aphids, but I always believe in taking a minute to figure out the problem so I learn.

Ive posted some pictures of the roots below man, thanks for your input too. I use a hanna ph meter to check my ph.

Sorry bro, didn't even see this till I was trolling around today! That's MY hottie man, she's toking some of my green right now... Sorry for hijacking your thread for a minute Andy, what did you do as far as Cal/Mag goes for fixing this problem, I don't think it is bugs at all bro!!!!

I havent done anything to treat a cal mag deficiency because no one thought it was one. Im planning on tryin epsom salt though, like seamaiden does.

 

[lazarus718]

Well, epsom salts are a staple in my garden along with lime. You can foliar feed the salts for quick uptake.

 

[andy107]

Well, epsom salts are a staple in my garden along with lime. You can foliar feed the salts for quick uptake.

Whats a good salt/water ratio for foliar feeding? I heard 4tbs per gallon for soil feeding, is it the same? Also, once I add epsom to my water, will it have any effect on the ph? And one last thing lol, can you get epsom at any grocery store, whats a good kind/brand? Sorry for all the questions man, but thanks for any answers.

 

[amstercal]

I should have said before... it does look like a CalMg deficiency, but so do a lot of root and bug problems. Foliar feeding plants with damaged roots is always a good idea. Have you calibrated your meter lately, done a second check with one of the dropper testers? And what ppm were the clones you were feeding that started showing symptoms (and how old were they?)?