It's Time For McGuyver! CFL Light Arrays

[Fishiesmallz]

I do like that setup. My only issue is that as mentioned above. It is only a top array and although you are getting an alright amount of side lighting.... just like you said the bottoms arent happy. The setup I have for my buddys shit is interesting to say the least. Can't wait to post a few pics soon.

Im already thinking of a way to integrate my normal setups into some sort of partial cfl array compared to the one you have above.


thanks again for the info

 

[ttystikk]

I do like that setup. My only issue is that as mentioned above. It is only a top array and although you are getting an alright amount of side lighting.... just like you said the bottoms arent happy. The setup I have for my buddys shit is interesting to say the least. Can't wait to post a few pics soon.

Im already thinking of a way to integrate my normal setups into some sort of partial cfl array compared to the one you have above.


thanks again for the info

You're very welcome. This array was designed as a rooted cutting/ early veg. stage light, or as an alternative to a VHO T5 array. It's not meant to work as you suggest, although it certainly does point the way. If, on the other hand, you tied your plant down all but flat- or as in the case of a few of my girls it just fell over(!), then this may well be the right tool for the flowering job!

 

[Fishiesmallz]

That's exactly the idea I had with it. Ive got a question you may or may not be able to answer. I'm lookin at 150w horticultural HPS bulbs and I'm noticing there are quite a few for sale that state that their color temp is 2000K and others that are 2100K. I'm used to sticking with 2700k. Any idea as to why it's switched up like that? Does it just mean that if I wanted to flower with 2000K or 2100K that it would be a much better idea to use other supplemental lighting unlike what many people do by just flowering with a 2700k hps?

 

[ttystikk]

You're touching on a big subject when it comes to optimal lighting in various stages of life. The main advantage of HPS in flowering boils down to horsepower; the sheer amount of PAR light being delivered to the plant is better than with nearly anyting else. That said, people report great results with MH bulb in flower, especially when switched in the last couple weeks of a cycle. Apparently, or so the story goes, the HPS bulks things up through the middle of the flowering cycle, and the MH helps get them frostier at the end.

I think the low kelvin bulbs you're referring to may be LPS, or low pressure sodium, which would account for the deep red spectrum. If so, I have not heard these are very helpful. Check to be sure before buying, at the very least. If you're gonna go small, I see no reason to get smaller than a 400w switchable ballast because these don't produce a lot of heat, they have good PAR emission numbers and spectrum- and once you have one, you can get replacement bulbs at Home DePot for like $20 each, so it's nowhere near the ongoing investment to keep running.

 

[Fishiesmallz]

Plantmax® High Pressure Sodium (HPS) Lamp
SPECIFICATIONSPX-LU150Initial Lumen Output: 16,000
Mean Life Hours: 24,000
Color Temperature: 2000 degrees Kelvin
For use in all mogul base 150 watt High Pressure Sodium (HPS) fixtures.PX-LU250Initial Lumen Output: 29,000
Mean Life Hours: 24,000
Color Temperature: 2000 degrees Kelvin
For use in all 400 watt High Pressure Sodium (HPS) fixtures.PX-LU400Initial Lumen Output: 50,000
Mean Life Hours: 24,000
Color Temperature: 2000 degrees Kelvin
For use in all 400 watt High Pressure Sodium (HPS) fixtures.PX-LU600Initial Lumen Output: 90,000
Mean Life Hours: 24,000
Color Temperature: 2000 degrees Kelvin
CRI: 25
For use in all 600 watt High Pressure Sodium (HPS) fixtures.PX-LU1000Initial Lumen Output: 140,000
Mean Life Hours: 24,000
Color Temperature: 2000 degrees Kelvin
For use in all 1000 watt High Pressure Sodium (HPS) fixtures.

These are the buggers I was talking about. Honestly I'm somewhat interested in these as I have done research on the effects of red light/far red light on phytochrome activity in plants. Rule of thumb. Never let your plant see far red light LAST before it's dark period. inbetween is alright but red light is great! I'm not saying only red light is good at the end of the light cycle. but never far red light. The research is obviously more complicated than that but to explain it would be partial mumbo jumbo to myself at my current experience and knowledge level and also mumbo jumbo to 99 percent of everyone else. lol

I think I'm going to buy one of these as well as a 2700 k bulb. I'm curious to see how the 2100 k bulb works as well. I know there are some plants that actually prefer far red light but not very many if im not mistaken.

My only issue with this, is that if you look at the specs of not only these bulbs but other hps bulbs and compare them to my cfl that I specifically picked from a wide variety of bulbs....

I found a 600 watt bulb that gives off 95,000 lumens. I figure thats about average for a horticultural bulb.

My CFL is 80 watts with at the very minimum 10,000 lumens. I'm being generously low with because I understand everyones biase against them.

7.5 x 80 Watts is 600 Watts.
7.5 x 10,000 lumens is 75,000 lumens.

Now keeping in mind that a normal cfl has a higher PAR than a normal HPS bulb. Even a higher PAR than most if not all Horticultural HPSbulbs.

So with my bulb being much more than your average CFL with a higher lumen output than even what I stated above... wouldn't it be safe to say that my CFL is almost as strong lumen wise and much better PAR wise. So other than the initial cost upfront of purchasing a nice cfl bulb and having to spend more money per watt for that upfront cost.... Isn't my CFL about a good (fuck the cost) if not better than an HPS or MH depending on the color temp?

Or is the penetration value of the HPS just that much better?

Although I will say I've seen 1000 watt HPS bulbs and I know they look like the sun itself. but my cfl is bright as a muthafucker as well. def gives you a headache and blinds you momentarily if you so much as look at it.

 

[ttystikk]

Okay, so I must have been off with the color spectrum, because I run that very 1000w Plantmax bulb.

A few corrections; first, 95,000 lumens with a 600w HPS is as good as it's going to get without going to LED, period. The bigger bulbs aren't more efficient and MH is definitely less so.

CFL and MH are roughly equivalent in PAR output. I have personally had better luck with the 'warm' slightly orangy ones as opposed to the bluish white ones. That means HPS is about 15-20% more efficient.

Remember, lumens and PAR are two different scales- 'lumens are for humans' is the mnemonic to remember, as we see green light best and plants don't see green at all.

CFL and low watt bulbs of all types have less penetration. That's just because they're smaller bulbs with a shorter maximum plant available light distance. That's why people growing big girls like big bulbs.

The basic problem with scaling up CFL tech is twofold; either you need a pile of bulbs, in which case you end up with 'McGuyver', pictured above- or you get one of those ginormous CFL bulbs that shines half its light output in on itself, and that's just a waste. The intensity of any induction type bulb- T12, T5, CFL or whatever- is limited by the material in the tube. Your eyes will get used to looking at CFLs pretty quickly (don't, because they still put out plenty of UV), but you'll get retina burn if you try that with any HID (high intensity discharge) bulb over 250w.

In this discussion of the finer points of lighting, I fear we're missing something basic; what exactly are you trying to light? Veg? Flower? What's your square footage? How many watts do you want to spend? How much heat can your space tolerate? Answer these questions and I'm sure the right choice will... come to light...

 

[ttystikk]

I still want to see what you had in mind here:

I do like that setup. My only issue is that as mentioned above. It is only a top array and although you are getting an alright amount of side lighting.... just like you said the bottoms arent happy. The setup I have for my buddys shit is interesting to say the least. Can't wait to post a few pics soon.

Im already thinking of a way to integrate my normal setups into some sort of partial cfl array compared to the one you have above.


thanks again for the info

You're welcome. Plenty here have helped me a lot. It's my privilege to do the same.

 

[El Cerebro]

Dude you need spinners for those splitter dealies, maybe something belt-driven to run all of them? Otherwise the plants might not grow even?

 

[Fishiesmallz]

Right right I get the lumen thing (I think) I was only using for explanation of the percentage of PAR in reference to lumen output. I hope that sounds right lol
Although most will disagree but plants to have a response to green light. But it's a very specific spectrum. They need barely any of it at all and it's obviously not crucial to growth. But it does help.

The space is roughly 5 W 7 H and 2 feet back to the wall. It is in a closet with walls painted pure white. This is specifically for a buddies plant that I helped rejuvenate after it being close to death I have my own plants. If you refer back to my other page of posts it will tell almost everything in pretty deep detail. But it is only one plant she is in veg right now and I plan to put her on 12/12 (or taper her down to it) tomorrow. And yes I am using on of those cfls that shoots its light back in on it self but i also have a 12 inch circular reflector around the top of the 80 watt cfl as well as around the bottom of the plant facing upward into the foliage. also being surrounded by those 3 other 23 watt cfls with 8 1/2 inch reflector on each of those as well. So there are reflectors on almost all side/ angles of it.
I'm trying to bust out as mnuch as possible but my paranoid as friend whos plant we are talking about is even skeptical with about 400 watts max since it's only one plant. I'll post a pic of the girl in 24 hours or so cus im about to be back in town.


As far as the integration. I'm talking about it being in reference to only producing one badass plant. I'm thinking rosws of those cfls 4 rows to be specific. I want them in a 4 sidds pyramid formation all joining at the top and plugged into some sort of rotating belt sort of like what homie mentioned above. This would give a little air circulation as well as a very uniform amount of light on all parts of the plants. This is obviously an idea still in the making but I'm very curious to see how it will turn out. The setup is obviously also subject to change but I'm definitely going to configure something like that hopefully within the next month. I also have a grow cylinder a carpenter friend of mine is building. It will look fucking beautiful and I can't wait to post some pics of it on here.

Mad Love.
Nug Life.

 

[ttystikk]

Dude you need spinners for those splitter dealies, maybe something belt-driven to run all of them? Otherwise the plants might not grow even?

Those weren't my splitters. I built the array so that all the sockets would be in the same plane, and therefore provide even light. That said, you can vary the wattage and other characteristics of the CFLs you put into each socket, so you can still fine tune things that way.

For just a couple splitters though I'm sure it would be easy enough to just move things around until you get the light you want.

 

[El Cerebro]

just kidding, was visualizing some sort of spinning cfl disco light thing

 

[joeca1i]

just don't breakum ....

 

[ttystikk]

just kidding, was visualizing some sort of spinning cfl disco light thing

You want spinning lights? You want everything but the disco ball in your grow room? Have a look here: https://lifelightsystems.com/

This is a light spinner that really kicks it up a notch in speed; 30rpm?!, power; up to 2400W, and the ability to make you go buggy with the incessant flickering.

I think this is way over-engineered, and even a bit dangerous. There are a few farmers here using it, and they report mixed results. I think the concept has promise.

Personally, I also think they're not paying attention to the entire growing space. I'm working on a design that integrates a specially matched set of light reflector, rotator and canopy edge treatment that actually lives up to at least some of the hype; Built my own light rotator- wanna see?

I'm currently doing proof of concept validation, the farm can expect to be among the first to get the whole story when I have hard data.

 

[El Cerebro]

Oh I know, kind of a running joke those lifelight things. Spinning electricity would be a recipe for disaster the way I work, repeated daily head injuries for sure. Like something from a Taratino flick, vampires and shit getting sawn in half, exploding bulbs, etc. Your bicycle mover is a classic btw.

 

[ttystikk]

Oh I know, kind of a running joke those lifelight things. Spinning electricity would be a recipe for disaster the way I work, repeated daily head injuries for sure. Like something from a Taratino flick, vampires and shit getting sawn in half, exploding bulbs, etc. Your bicycle mover is a classic btw.

I think PButter is the farmer here who has one- and he says he's smacked his head on it three times and counting...

Moving the light is only part of the battle; one has to take into account all the energy leaving the growing space without hitting leaves, and that's where some of the rest of my tinkering has come into play. It's easy to fixate on the mover as the central innovation, but really it's not- the reflector and canopy edge treatments all play critical roles, and without those two factors in place the improvements a grow sees are likely to be slight or even negative.

Thanks for the compliment (I think!). That homebuilt unit is really just a proof of concept device, designed to validate my ideas. So far, so good. What has to happen next is a true head to head comparison between that and a conventional room. If I use half the light and get 75% of the yield I would call that a win, since yield per watt increased by 50%!

 

[caregiverken]

1st time ive seen this thread...Good One TTstik :)
I really Dig the Hudge CFL's

But, like you said, they are only good for small plants

just kidding, was visualizing some sort of spinning cfl disco light thing

I was too. :)

just don't breakum ....

I broke a small one the other day...Am i gonna die?

 

[ttystikk]

1st time ive seen this thread...Good One TTstik :)
I really Dig the Hudge CFL's
View attachment 209699
But, like you said, they are only good for small plants

I broke a small one the other day...Am i gonna die?

Welcome to the dimly lit recesses of my fevered brain, lol.
I ran a mix of 13w, 17w and 23w CFLs in the arrays- I have two of them; one is 5 strips of 5 sockets each, more of a 36" square profile, and the other is 6 strips of 4 sockets each, makes a rectancle shape about 30" wide x 48" long.

CFLs have powdered mercury material in them. Mercury is very poisonous. If you broke it over your plants, you may want to get rid of the affected plants, and especially thoroughly clean any growing substrate beneath. Mercury even in small amounts is strongly linked to behavior issues including depression.

 

[ttystikk]

>>>bump

 

[ttystikk]

Since I'm up to my old tricks and making a new lighting/growing system, I figured I would drag this thread out of the archives. See what people think of my first project?

 

[greenshoeguru]

You're very welcome. This array was designed as a rooted cutting/ early veg. stage light, or as an alternative to a VHO T5 array. It's not meant to work as you suggest, although it certainly does point the way. If, on the other hand, you tied your plant down all but flat- or as in the case of a few of my girls it just fell over(!), then this may well be the right tool for the flowering job!

Years ago, I made a similar box using CFL's just to house my mother plants and I must admit it really did good work