JACKS BACK!!! Capulators new formulas.

Crysmatic · Aug 29, 2012

Capulator said:
I will be running this (all in per gallon values):

2.5 grams hydro
2.13 cal nitrate
.2 Cacl2
.095 MKP
.55 k2so4
.71 epsom salts
.005 MOST

which will give me 120-40-210-120-60 and the sulfur will be at 103.

this is per manufacturers directions. So much fucking around... trying to be a mad scientist. its not working so I am gonna follow some directions (not all) from the people who are celebrating their 65th anniversary in fert blending.

My goal is to have all the plants thriving. No yellowing, no toxicities, no deficiencies, all the way through.

I checked your ppm (minus MOST). All is good. Your %NPK is 12-9.2-25. Your ratio is 1.30-1-2.75. Why did you move away from 3-1-4? Didn't you like your results?

If you were having issues with mag nitrate, I'd suggest there was something wrong with the application, not the salt itself.

I'm not quite at 65...I just celebrated my 2nd anniversary this month :)

fwiw, it IS possible to make a two part fert that works from seed to harvest, without deficiencies, and has great results. Keep working at it!

Capulator · Aug 29, 2012

wait a sec... I thought my elemental ppm ratio was closer to 3-1-5? is that the same thing as % 1-2-2.75?

I am working at it!!!!!:eek:

I have changed up the formula a little more. Constantly changing it really... TOday I tried a tank with 1971's formula for veg (#'s not actual salts). I was able to come very close to his ratios with just jacks and MKP and K2so4.

The second formula I am runnign where I compensated for the silica... that one is doing really really well. I am very much liking it.

Capulator · Aug 29, 2012

El Cerebro said:
haha, T does know what he's talking about though (while i had to waste $2 on the wrong 4lb box first)

pretty sure i have that covered with mgso4, most, calnit, cacl. i used to buy botanicare cal-mag cause everybody said-so, last jug ran out about a year ago and haven't missed it.

Yeah I still have a half of a big ass jug. I dont use it anymore. I dont "charge" my coco either with any cal mag. I just water with pH'd nutes from day one. I water to run off. Thats it. All my plants in coco stay really green and healthy. The RDWC and my other custom system... thats a different story.

ttystikk · Aug 31, 2012

Capulator said:
Yeah I still have a half of a big ass jug. I dont use it anymore. I dont "charge" my coco either with any cal mag. I just water with pH'd nutes from day one. I water to run off. Thats it. All my plants in coco stay really green and healthy. The RDWC and my other custom system... thats a different story.

...which is starting to make me wonder WTF- why not just run coco and be done with it?

Capulator · Aug 31, 2012

ttystikk said:
...which is starting to make me wonder WTF- why not just run coco and be done with it?

I guess I'm a little like JK that way. I like the challenge. If I start something, I like to try and master it before I quit.

ttystikk · Sep 1, 2012

Capulator said:
I guess I'm a little like JK that way. I like the challenge. If I start something, I like to try and master it before I quit.

Well, I challenged myself into the damn poorhouse for a year with RDWC, I think that's enough for me. o_O I am playing with a few ideas, but I'm liking the coco thing thus far.

Capulator · Sep 1, 2012

Yeah when I first built mine I remember dizzle trying to talk me out of it, so I compromised and went half coco and half RDWC. That was a brilliant idea. The coco has definitely kept me from eating top ramen.

ttystikk · Sep 2, 2012

I got some great ramen noodle recipes. I'm happy to share... I'm tired of them, lol.

Seriously, the coco thing is working out well so far. That, plus finding and dealing with my russet mite issues has made all the difference of late.

pugliese63 · Sep 2, 2012

Regarding mediums I switched to what might be referred to as a chow mix. Its about a 60/40 mix of bulk rockwool and coco croutons. I've been using this for about a year plus and love it. I use it in beds, 4x4 smart pot tray liners, 2 per 8x4 table. I got tired of dumping pots ect. Plus all the dust. I reuse it entirely, just harvest, pull the root balls and rake it. Put the new clones in and go. This is my 4th run and my plants are loving it. I run the 3,2,1 combo with H&G's drip clean. Simplest, highest producing system I've ever had. And it stays a lot cleaner.

Crysmatic · Sep 4, 2012

Capulator said:
wait a sec... I thought my elemental ppm ratio was closer to 3-1-5? is that the same thing as % 1-2-2.75?

I am working at it!!!!!:eek:

I have changed up the formula a little more. Constantly changing it really... TOday I tried a tank with 1971's formula for veg (#'s not actual salts). I was able to come very close to his ratios with just jacks and MKP and K2so4.

if your elemental ppm is 300-100-500 (3-1-5), then it's 3.0-2.3-6.0 %NPK. (ratio is 1.30-1-2.60)

if your %NPK is 1-2-2.75, then your ppm will be 100-87.2-228.25 (ratio is 1.15-1-2.62)

a quick check is this: take %NPK, multiply by 100 to get salt ppm. eg 3-1-2 becomes 300-100-200. multiply P2O5 by 0.436, and K2O by 0.83 to get P and K. i.e. 300-43.6-166 is your N-P-K ppm. then divide by the smallest number to get your ratio. i.e. 6.88-1-3.81. You can also work backwards to quickly convert ppm to %NPK.

the 100 is just an arbitrary number that makes the math easy. it doesn't affect ratios.

Good job tweaking the formula to give you better results. I found it's not a particular NPK ratio, but that all the elements are playing nice with each other, and the plant...and also with the medium in your case. Knowing the exact ratios is secondary to having a formula that works (witness all the growers using AN). It's when it *doesn't* work that you need to know exact ppm - so that you can adjust it with a measure of control and certainty. Maybe you can go back and see what you've been changing, to see where you've been making progress, and continue in that direction. GL

Capulator · Sep 5, 2012

Crysmatic said:
if your elemental ppm is 300-100-500 (3-1-5), then it's 3.0-2.3-6.0 %NPK. (ratio is 1.30-1-2.60)

if your %NPK is 1-2-2.75, then your ppm will be 100-87.2-228.25 (ratio is 1.15-1-2.62)

a quick check is this: take %NPK, multiply by 100 to get salt ppm. eg 3-1-2 becomes 300-100-200. multiply P2O5 by 0.436, and K2O by 0.83 to get P and K. i.e. 300-43.6-166 is your N-P-K ppm. then divide by the smallest number to get your ratio. i.e. 6.88-1-3.81. You can also work backwards to quickly convert ppm to %NPK.

the 100 is just an arbitrary number that makes the math easy. it doesn't affect ratios.

Good job tweaking the formula to give you better results. I found it's not a particular NPK ratio, but that all the elements are playing nice with each other, and the plant...and also with the medium in your case. Knowing the exact ratios is secondary to having a formula that works (witness all the growers using AN). It's when it *doesn't* work that you need to know exact ppm - so that you can adjust it with a measure of control and certainty. Maybe you can go back and see what you've been changing, to see where you've been making progress, and continue in that direction. GL

This is always where I get confused. I am running roughly a 3-1-5 ratio in elemental ppm. Almost 1:1.75 N:K, 1:1 N:Ca. I never look at my ratios in percentages because the P and K have to be converted to actual P and K anyway. At least thats how I learned it. If I say 3-1-4 ratio I am talking about elemental ppm. A % ratio (off the numbers from the side of the can lets say) of 3-1-4 is not the same as elemental ratio of 3-1-4.

So I went from 3-1-4 (basic jacks formula) to 3-1-5, based on yosemite sams "lovin the 1:1.75 N:K ratio"...

I'm still tweaking, but now I forced myslef to buy a clipboard for each room and I take diligent notes on environment, growth rates, pH, EC, etc.. DAILY. That should help.

cctt · Sep 15, 2012

Capulator said:
The second formula I am runnign where I compensated for the silica... that one is doing really really well. I am very much liking it.

Would you mind sharing this adjusted formula? How much K2SiO3 are you using?

Capulator · Sep 15, 2012

cctt said:
Would you mind sharing this adjusted formula? How much K2SiO3 are you using?

I am running this at around 80% and plants are really loving it. Ill take some pics later to post up here.

cctt · Sep 15, 2012

Capulator said:
I am running this at around 80% and plants are really loving it. Ill take some pics later to post up here.

Thanks. I'm not sure how to interpret which sections' listed substances are included - notes says ".2 grams/gal cacl2" but it's not in the above list, and there's .5 g/gal of MgSO4.7H2O listed on the second page that I'm also not sure if is included.

I ran all those numbers through Hydrobuddy and I'm not seeing the same results for sulfur - I get 24 ppm (41 ppm if the epsoms are included) rather than the 81 in your report. Where's the extra sulfur coming from? AFAICT it's just the K2SO4 providing it.

Capulator · Sep 15, 2012

The MgSO4 is in addition to whatever you see. The CaCl2 as well. The calculator only lets you put in so many inputs. the silica is in the chart twice, once in the calculator and once in the notes. However, its only added once. 5ml/gal. At 80% its at 4ml/gal.

The .2 grams CaCl2 is around 20ppm additional Ca.

The Epsom supposedly shoudl be added after the hydro adn before the CalNit, but I mix the epsom with the hydro when I am being lazy and havent seen an issue. I also add the silca before I add anything, and sometimes if I forget I added right after the hydro, but not after the CaNO3, because then I get the cloud.

Here are pics with that formula.

Colombian @ flip:

White fire x FPOG @ around 3 weeks:

Something special from my friend Alien @ 4 weeks:

cctt · Sep 16, 2012

Those plants look great. I'm still not sure where all the sulfur is coming from though. I'm calculating 24 ppm via K2SO4 and 17 ppm via MgSO4.7H2O for a total of 41 ppm total sulfur.

Capulator · Sep 16, 2012

cctt said:
Those plants look great. I'm still not sure where all the sulfur is coming from though. I'm calculating 24 ppm via K2SO4 and 17 ppm via MgSO4.7H2O for a total of 41 ppm total sulfur.

the jr peters hydro has sulferas well.

cctt · Sep 16, 2012

Capulator said:
the jr peters hydro has sulferas well.

Ah, that must be what I'm missing. Do you know how much? I don't see the numbers on the guaranteed analysis on their website - - although it does say "Supplies magnesium and sulfur"...

El Cerebro · Sep 16, 2012

that last plant..

Capulator · Sep 17, 2012

El Cerebro said:
that last plant..

Yeah it's not even in my system where it should be. Just a 1 gallon black plastic pot on the floor. the top is like 5 ft. from a 600. I can't wait to load up the whole system with this baby. That white strawberry cough is simply wow as well. I ended up getting so many good phenos on the last hunt that now I don't know what to run for next time.

JACKS BACK!!! Capulators new formulas.

JACKS BACK!!! Capulators new formulas.

Crysmatic

Capulator

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Capulator

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ttystikk

Capulator

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ttystikk

Capulator

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ttystikk

pugliese63

Crysmatic

Capulator

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cctt

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JACKS BACK!!! Capulators new formulas.

JACKS BACK!!! Capulators new formulas.

Crysmatic

Capulator

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ttystikk

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Capulator

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