jacks ro 12-4-16 formula

Scolymia7 · Oct 7, 2020

I couldn't find alot on others experiences with this just have read alot of growers post good reviews with jacks. Im a long time lucas formula user. Loved it in rdwc but not so much in coco.

Decided its time to switch nutes to give me more control over ratios. Thats when I came across jacks ro.

Again couldn't find much in terms of cannabis cultivators posting experiences so it was a learning curve especially not understanding ratios. It was always 8-16 for me. I learned quickly why the lucas formula revieves criticism. I tried the coco version 6-9.....my plants never liked it. Had to go full strength 1.7ec for plants to look happy. I applied that to new nutrients and made it 1.7ec...haha burned the shit out of them. Eventually worked down to a consisten .5-.6 ec. I made adjustments to ratios based on ph. I wanted it to be with in that 5.9-6.1 range after everything mixed for 30 min.

Here's the list of what I fed. I'm not including ratios because still learning and I'm just posting to share i had good experiences with jacks ro as someone who uses r.o. water for growing.

Jacks R0
Epsom
Calmag
Silica
Fulvic acid
Recharge
Budswel

You can tell by pics I had some issues. After the first run almost being done with new ferts, got bigger more dense buds and used 1.2 less ec for its entire flower cycle compared to lucas.

Here's a few pics, 7-10 days left.

oldskol4evr · Oct 7, 2020

Scolymia7 said:
I couldn't find alot on others experiences with this just have read alot of growers post good reviews with jacks. Im a long time lucas formula user. Loved it in rdwc but not so much in coco.

Decided its time to switch nutes to give me more control over ratios. Thats when I came across jacks ro.

Again couldn't find much in terms of cannabis cultivators posting experiences so it was a learning curve especially not understanding ratios. It was always 8-16 for me. I learned quickly why the lucas formula revieves criticism. I tried the coco version 6-9.....my plants never liked it. Had to go full strength 1.7ec for plants to look happy. I applied that to new nutrients and made it 1.7ec...haha burned the shit out of them. Eventually worked down to a consisten .5-.6 ec. I made adjustments to ratios based on ph. I wanted it to be with in that 5.9-6.1 range after everything mixed for 30 min.

Here's the list of what I fed. I'm not including ratios because still learning and I'm just posting to share i had good experiences with jacks ro as someone who uses r.o. water for growing.

Jacks R0
Epsom
Calmag
Silica
Fulvic acid
Recharge
Budswel

You can tell by pics I had some issues. After the first run almost being done with new ferts, got bigger more dense buds and used 1.2 less ec for its entire flower cycle compared to lucas.

Here's a few pics, 7-10 days left.

i just have to ask why so much magnesium?epsome salt is magnesium and sulfur,cal mag is calcium ans magnesium,your doubling up on your micro nutrients there that could be one issue,then your using fulvic acid,ok that great for uptake but then you add silica,wouldnt that kinda inneract with each other.
the recharge and budwell i wouldnt use every feed maybe just once every 2 weeks,dont get me wrong ,your buds are swole and look great but your trying to figure out you jacks feed here.
why not take a gallon of ro water and mix just the right suggested ec for the stage of growth your in and feed one plant and do a side by side,use the one plant with just jacks at recomend dose and the recharge and budswell once every 2 weeks,do those two by themself
honestly mate i see more issues with folks just from using boasters more than any thing,the silica alone is rasing your ec more than your feed ,id drop it and use more feed myself
anyway just a thought

Scolymia7 · Oct 7, 2020

@oldskol4evr

I only use the Fulvic, Budswell, and recharge every 10-14 days. I rotate between the epsoms and calmag. I bought a gallon calmag awhile back on sale and just want to use it up but read somewhere epsom was needed with jacks so I just got it. I do use the silica for every feeding......the silica and the fulvic were freebies that I pry wont replace unless I see a notable difference after I run out. Both are used at 1/4 strength. I agree with too much additives causing issues. I im just using up what i have, and figured at quarter stregnth with fulvic and silica its not causing any harm. The amount of silica I add doesn't even register on ec meter.

I'll definely try a plant or 2 with just the jacks, budswell, and recharge to see on my next grow. Good suggestion!!! The term less is more exists for a reason lol.

oldskol4evr · Oct 7, 2020

Scolymia7 said:
@oldskol4evr

I only use the Fulvic, Budswell, and recharge every 10-14 days. I rotate between the epsoms and calmag. I bought a gallon calmag awhile back on sale and just want to use it up but read somewhere epsom was needed with jacks so I just got it. I do use the silica for every feeding......the silica and the fulvic were freebies that I pry wont replace unless I see a notable difference after I run out. Both are used at 1/4 strength. I agree with too much additives causing issues. I im just using up what i have, and figured at quarter stregnth with fulvic and silica its not causing any harm. The amount of silica I add doesn't even register on ec meter.

I'll definely try a plant or 2 with just the jacks, budswell, and recharge to see on my next grow. Good suggestion!!! The term less is more exists for a reason lol.

fulvic is fine to use it was with the other two i was talking about,yes im aware of jacks ,i used it outdoors on my veggie garden few years back,worked great,all i used the the original with epsome salt,cheap as shit and worked great lasted forever too.
i was just questioning all the mag you throwing at it,calcium is in abundance in most things,but mag isnt,it can be over done was what i was saying,along with those micro nutrients is manganese it controls all the micro nutes from becoming toxic,but it isnt bullet proof if you dig

cemchris · Oct 7, 2020

What are you feeding everything at per gallon?

With Jack's RO I had to use MKP with it. If not your only running like 14 ppm of P on feeds minus budswell (also need to account for the P in PH Down with Si). It will also run the N pretty high almost 1:1.1 N:K by itself (also account for the K in Si). Granted I run P low (40-50 ppm) but not that low.

@3g per gal

Messing around with it along with Cal N, Mag Sulf, and MKP. Fe kind of low tho. Bottled Calmg sometimes has Fe in it so account for that

Still don't know how that would do but plants looked pretty decent last run. Looks like you are almost there with some tweaking. Also account for Si and what it does to media PH. Not a problem you would deal with in DWC.

On a side note when I used fulvic I had to drop the ppm of my overall feed because I saw some burning. Also using strait Jacks RO without mag sulf you will not have any S.

BillFarthing · Oct 7, 2020

@cemchris is right about fulvic- reduce your ppm 10-25%. You can tell it was hot because of those crispy leaf tips.

Also, Jack's and potassium silicate is risking locking out Ca from too much K.

Scolymia7 · Oct 7, 2020

Oh nice, so you've used the jacks ro as well @cemchris. I couldn't find anything on forums and didn't want to be another thread asking what are the best nutes. So just read and read....Jacks came up alot, went to their site and found the ro blend. Not sure if it was marketing or theres truth to it blending better. Regardless I hit pay now and went in blind. My tap is not the best so it has to be ro for me. Ive been reading and trying to comprehend how to process fertilizers numbers or calculate them. Sailing right over my head. So its been trial by error the last few months thats why I didn't add mix ratios in initial post, I don't need anyone reading and thinking its good. but since you asked and if you be so kind offer a simpleton a better understanding on what I'm feeding my plants, it would be much appreciated.

Currently for 12 gallons I mix 22 grams of Jacks ro, 7 grams of epsolms or 25 ml cal mag. 4ml silica that was daily feed. They liked that towards end of veg and thats all I kept feeding them through flower. They just looked happy minus some rust spots and nut burn oh and when i mix its silica first, then Epsom(dissolved first) or calmag, and then jacks(disolved first), then ph would let that keep mixing with powerehead for 30 min. And adjust ph again if needed.

When I fed recharge, budswell and fulvic I just put a 1/2 Tbsp recharge, 20ml budswell, and 5ml fulvic in two gallons water adjust ph and divided up between pots. I leanred the hard way not mix the organics with the saltferts. My rez was so dirty . That recharge is messy....

mistletoe · Dec 9, 2020

@Scolymia7 Jacks has some grow schedules up now that have the 12-4-16.

CANNABIS AND HEMP SCHEDULES | Jack's Nutrients

www.jacksnutrients.com

Some interesting ideas, I was thinking of maybe trying it. I'm definitely trying the 12-4-16 RO for veg as I find the 15-6-17 Clone that they have is almost perfect but lacks enough Ca and Mg and the 12-4-16 RO has much more Ca (7% Ca vs. 4% for the 15-6-17). Something about Jacks 321 and Jack 3/2.5 my plants don't seem to fully like with my tap for veg.

Scolymia7 · Dec 11, 2020

Jacks ro will require some mpk like mentioned above. The batch in veg now started slow on everything. .4 ec was the base....alot of stunted growth was observed and eventually got up to 1.2 ec over 2 months. This is where they are happy with nothing too excessive. No fulvic acid, calmag, or SI. I use 3.2 grams per gal of jacks ro for every feed, and rotate between .8 epsolm or .8 mpk per gallon when I mix new nutrients. bennies every other week. At first I just threw a bunch of everything together and gave every feeding. That messed up plants ....burned, weak flavor, and buds stopped developing early with alot of red hairs in week 5. This go around Im watching the plants and letting them tell me what they want as I slowly bumped up the ec. The older growth shows deficiencies but I'm ok with that as most will be removed when I trim bellow the canopy before flip. The newer leafs are a healthy green, soft looking, and happy. Stems aren't stretchy or viney, the bases are really getting thick. I may not understand nutrient ratios but I learned a great deal on listening to the plants . Now I'm just documenting how they look, feed rate, temp and humidity daily so I can repeat/dial in more on the next round.

Compared to lucas formula which is what I'm used to dealing with, I really like the ph stability with jacks ro. I make 10 gallons at a time, and it stays the ph I set it to when mixed. Before I was adjusting ph daily. Over the course of 3 days the res might bump up from 6.0 to 6.1. I also like dry over liquid fertz. Easier to customize/cheaper.

BillFarthing · Dec 11, 2020

Scolymia7 said:
Jacks ro will require some mpk like mentioned above.

No, it won't. Cannabis growers overuse phosphorus. If you look at tissue samples, there is sufficient P in Jack's RO.

Scolymia7 said:
No folic acid

Must be a new biostimulant we haven't heard about.

Scolymia7 said:
I may not understand nutrient ratios

This is true.

Scolymia7 said:
Compared to lucas formula which is what I'm used to dealing with, I really like the ph stability with jacks ro. I make 10 gallons at a time, and it stays the ph I set it to when mixed. Before I was adjusting ph daily. Over the course of 3 days the res might bump up from 6.0 to 6.1. I also like dry over liquid fertz. Easier to customize/cheaper.

There' ya go.

Scolymia7 · Dec 11, 2020

@BillFarthing

I went without the mpk even though it was recommended above and did not like how they looked alot of purple stems and veins in new/old growth. New leaves were yellowing/falling off, alot of edges turning brown. After adding it I have had solid green stems/no purple leaf stems and they aren't as stretchy and are really thickening at nodes. Oh and the smell of raw veging plants when lights flick off is much more pungent entire basement smells. So the mpk did something.. If you know something that contributes to the use of Jacks ro please share. I am really trying to dial this in and there is limited information on it. I fully get I do not understand ratios or how each nutirient intracts with in the coco, all of that goes right over my head lol. Im hear to learn! Yes I had a typo it was supposed to be fulvic.

mistletoe · Dec 11, 2020

@Scolymia7 You might just not be adding enough of the 12-4-16. Their chart recommends 6.3 g/gallon.

Using Hyrdobuddy, with my 100 ppm tap that would be-

200 PPM N
30 P
223 K
131 Ca
38 Mg
2.5 Fe

My 12-4-16 isn't here yet so I don't know what PPM of that mix will be yet. It may be way too high and burn your plants off I don't know. Hydrobuddy estimates it to be about 721 PPM which seems low. You are providing half those values which would be really low, like 15 P, etc. They also recommend adding Epsom, which will make it 61 PPM Mg. Maybe most importantly it adds sulfur. The 12-4-16 RO has no sulfur in it. Some people say sulfur helps with smell and flavor.

They recommend finishing with the 7-15-30 Finish though, which has lots of P and K, (but no Ca). I do think 30 P might be kind of low for finishing (I do think that P and K seem to bring out the smells, it may be because it is a stressor though) but that is likely provided at the last by the 7-15-30 Finish. I usually try to grow plants to maximize smell the whole way through and I think that may be wrong. The smell of my buds respond quickly to changes in ferts and I doubt that terpenes created at week 5 or so are still there when we chop or vice versa. I have no data on that though. Might be a cool idea to try to create maximum bud size with huge growth from 200 PPM N in 12-4-16 RO and then generate the smells at the last when I lower CO2 and temps and switch to the 7-15-30. That seems to be what the Jacks chart is suggesting.

Scolymia7 · Dec 11, 2020

That could be my issue. To start slow I started with 2 grams per gallon and got up to 3.2. The back recommended 3 g per gallon not 6. 6 grams would pry make the ec 1.4 alone if you use Epsom it will make it 1.5-1.6 ec doesn't that seem too high?. I keep reading not to go too high on the ec with coco. 1-1.2 being max. @mistletoe

BillFarthing · Dec 11, 2020

I've blown through the 1.2 max EC with CO2 and fresh bulbs. Give the plants what they need!

Also, there is sufficient magnesium. I wouldn't add epsom unless you are under LED or they are showing magnesium deficiency after raising your base nutrient. It's a 1-part for a reason.

mistletoe · Dec 11, 2020

@Scolymia7 I used to listen to the low EC stuff, but I think I would do too low in the past. As long as you have runoff and are measuring the runoff EC and it isn't getting a lot higher than what you are putting in, I think it is fine. By sticking to too low EC, I would get potassium deficiency during mid bloom, as the plants stacked on weight, that I had confused for nute burn.

I've now grown seedlings from just a few inches high to large plants by adding 830 ppm Jacks/Calcium Nitrate at 3/2.5 every watering with runoff and they were great. I used to do like 600 ppm and monitor the runoff and keep it at about 830 ppm and they would look like crap from deficiencies. I think maybe the 600 ppm advice is from people that don't get runoff? I'm not sure. But following it really made me have some soul searching months for a while haha. My plants seem to do best when I keep the runoff EC at around 1000 ppm. A lot will depend on your vpd- room temp + humidity, if you use CO2, etc. though.

Scolymia7 · Dec 11, 2020

That makes sense and exactly the position im in/what I've seen from my plants. Had no issues growing in rdwc and using lucas. Before I fully switched to coco I used the rez water(950-1200 ppms) on practice plants. They vegged/flowered healthy and smoke was great. I was like wow coco is easy. I didnt think how the fertz would disappear faster when I switched to all coco. First tried lucas coco formula to conserve nutes....that did not work at all.

Thats what lead me to jacks, big bags would last longer and cheap so im not ordering gallons of liquid that would arrive broken sometimes. I have to use ec now because my blue lab wont switch. But im going to cut the epsolm and mpk like Bill suggested and try a base feed at 6g or more per gal to stay in the 1.2-1.4 ec range and see how they do. I use the hlg600 but no C02 so I may or may not need the mag. I monitor the vdp and try to keep temps/humidty in check. Winter months make that hard though haha.

Thanks for help!!!!

Scolymia7 · Jan 18, 2021

@mistletoe

How are you liking the Jacks RO.

I found 6g a gallon to be a little hot for my freshly potted/young plants. So I make a batch at 6g a gal then reduce it to 700ish for the wee ones.

Thanks again for sharing the information you found. The directions on back are defintly not for cannabis haha.

The ones in flower have exploded in growth, bud sites and over all health is great at 6g a gallon. No visual deficiencies minus purple stems/veins. Im just going with cooler temps as the culprit. With no ac and lights on full the room doesn't get above 76-78°F(got to love winter). And drops to 68-70°F at night. I also ordered the 7-15-30 for the last part of their flowering time.

These are on day 28.

mistletoe · Jan 19, 2021

@Scolymia7 Great to hear from you! Your plants are looking good, thanks for the update. I’m liking the 12-4-16 RO with my low TDS tap water. I’ve been keeping all my mothers and clones in it and they look healthy and happy so far. The one part makes it really easy to mix up. I think the plants may look healthier than when I used Jacks/Calcium Nitrate at 3/2.5. But I really need to do a side by side and see. Might include Jack 321 as well and have a “best veg nutes” shootout.

mistletoe · Apr 16, 2021

Thought I would check in for an update. I don't think I like the 12-4-16 RO that well for veg. I think the 200 ppm N might be a bit too high for me. I was getting what seemed to be nitrogen claw from it. My Jacks 3/2.5 came in and saved the day and the plants looked pretty perfect by the time it was time for flip. Going to try Jacks 321 at about 80% strength this time for veg to compare.

Scolymia7 · Apr 16, 2021

Im going to give it one more chance, this time start slow. Make a full strength batch and dilute it. Then slowly ramp it up and watch the leaves. 6g per gal may be a little too hot and I was getting nutrient lock out. But I also didn't see my heater was off for the last several months and it was getting down to 45°f during lights off. Then I wasn't running my humidifier and humidity was down around 15-20%. I got lazy haha so can't say it was all nutrient related.

Finally a little mishap happened.....roommate left basement door open and his dog got down stairs and my grow room door was open...... coco, perilite, and plant material everywhere. Need to get clones before I can start back up.

Thanks for update, if I don't get the veg growth im used to seeing prior to using jacks 12/4/16 its going to the lawn and switch back to rdwc and lucas formula. Things were so easy

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