Junk's Growing Log

[SmithsJunk]

What is that a snow catcher 2000? :)

That mc guy from mc adventures thread said he had shovel snow off his trailer. I think he said he’s at like 3500 elevation though.

Yeah, I'm only at 2300 and this is a ridiculous amount of snow for this elevation (the persistent storms, not the accumulation). We'll get hit for a few days maybe once or twice a year, but this is the first time I've ever seen three weeks straight (even with breaks) this low.

I rolled the awning in a few feet to minimise surface area and make the frame more rigid. I only care abut the frame and mounts. Replacing the material this spring.

Had some very sketch nervous smoke breaks out here last night. That was a LOT of snow, all at once. The flurry was so dense and muting I almost had one of my claustrophobic panic attacks. Sh*t, that was scary. Cause I usually go outside to feel open space but it was the outside causing it. There was no sound. It was like talking into cotton. It makes no sense, but that's absolutely terrifying to me. It takes some serious logic, meditation, weed (and sometimes valium, hehe) to keep from freaking out. The mind is a c*r*a*z*y thing.

 

[SmithsJunk]

You think you’ll be doing a greenhouse in the future?

I'm hoping to do a small grow in my cousin's greenhouse this summer. I can only do six in the garden and I pay 50% for my right to grow. The yields have been fantastic so its been a non-issue and it pays for zero interference from my silent partner. This year I want to better my position with 100% + (50%-100%) greenhouse, and give him a bigger than 50% cut with more variety. That really helps for his medical needs, mine too.

FYI, I set up the split and he just accepted. I know it's steep but it's also easy. One for you, one for me. It was worth it when I proposed it and still is. It's very hard to find grow space without owning land here. But there's no reason not to better both our positions. There are three of us who medically benefit from it (...and recreationally of course).

 

[MeanGreen420]

I'm hoping to do a small grow in my cousin's greenhouse this summer. I can only do six in the garden and I pay 50% for my right to grow. The yields have been fantastic so its been a non-issue and it pays for zero interference from my silent partner. This year I want to better my position with 100% + (50%-100%) greenhouse, and give him a bigger than 50% cut with more variety. That really helps for his medical needs, mine too.

FYI, I set up the split and he just accepted. I know it's steep but it's also easy. One for you, one for me. It was worth it when I proposed it and still is. It's very hard to find grow space without owning land here. But there's no reason not to better both our positions. There are three of us who medically benefit from it (...and recreationally of course).

Hell ya bubba get all you can %150!
Move that lawn chair under the awning lol. Die laughing if that caved in on you haha have great day smith!!!

 

[SmithsJunk]

OK, without being arrogant I can say, I'm pretty smart and very much mechanically inclined, but this device has me completely stumped.

Now, look at this and tell me I'm not crazy in asking, "WTF is with this mounting setup?"

So the the lock nuts fit into the case. I see that, but that's the only part that makes any sense. The bolts dont slide through from the top and the bottom plate appears to be setup for it to be mounted then the switch fits over it. But theres no way I can see to tighten the switch to the back cover. The only thing I can guess is that it was designed to fit some sort of modular system or waterproof battery box. Maybe i should just hook it up and run wood screws from the front, through the back plate, and into the wall. Disregarding the hardware that came with it. Cause, I just don't get it. My brain hurts, hahaha. This device makes no sense from an engineering viewpoint, I think.

I'm gonna roll another jay, drink another Mountain Dew, and ponder this a bit more.

 

[MeanGreen420]

OK, without being arrogant I can say, I'm pretty smart and very much mechanically inclined, but this device has me completely stumped.

Now, look at this and tell me I'm not crazy in asking, "WTF is with this mounting setup?"
View attachment 857912 View attachment 857913
So the the lock nuts fit into the case. I see that, but that's the only part that makes any sense. The bolts dont slide through from the top and the bottom plate appears to be setup for it to be mounted then the switch fits over it. But theres no way I can see to tighten the switch to the back cover. The only thing I can guess is that it was designed to fit some sort of modular system or waterproof battery box. Maybe i should just hook it up and run wood screws from the front, through the back plate, and into the wall. Disregarding the hardware that came with it. Cause, I just don't get it. My brain hurts, hahaha. This device makes no sense from an engineering viewpoint, I think.

I'm gonna roll another jay, drink another Mountain Dew, and ponder this a bit more.

You use that plate for a stencil to mark holes to drill?

 

[SmithsJunk]

You use that plate for a stencil to mark holes to drill?

That's a good start but the plate does appear to be part of the unit. It fits snugly like a Lego. I can see that the placement of the nuts are so it can be mounted from the front but it also looks like it's set up to be mounted from the back (that's what she said, hehe). Youd figure there'd be an inset from the back of the plate so two mounting screws could be put into the wall while two bolts could be facing the opposite direction as posts. It looks like it's setup to mount through a cut out in a battery box.

I'm looking around Amazon to see how other people mounted it. There area lot of these switches from multiple sellers so there are lots of different pics from reviewers.

Looking for a better view of a setup like this or a solar setup like mine where it's mounted to a wall. I don't need screws to mount the back plate. Going to use heavy duty Velcro but still nerd to affix the plate to the switch. I don't want coming loose and risk touching hot wires running up to 60a DC. Anyone who knows better, knows DC current is very dangerous.

 

[MeanGreen420]

That's a good start but the plate does appear to be part of the unit. It fits snugly like a Lego. I can see that the placement of the nuts are so it can be mounted from the front but it also looks like it's set up to be mounted from the back (that's what she said, hehe). Youd figure there'd be an inset from the back of the plate so two mounting screws could be put into the wall while two bolts could be facing the opposite direction as posts. It looks like it's setup to mount through a cut out in a battery box.

I'm looking around Amazon to see how other people mounted it. There area lot of these switches from multiple sellers so there are lots of different pics from reviewers.
View attachment 857923 View attachment 857924 View attachment 857925 View attachment 857926
Looking for a better view of a setup like this or a solar setup like mine where it's mounted to a wall. I don't need screws to mount the back plate. Going to use heavy duty Velcro but still nerd to affix the plate to the switch. I don't want coming loose and risk touching hot wires running up to 60a DC. Anyone who knows better, knows DC current is very dangerous.
View attachment 857927

I’m trying to figure out how wired come out or into the box if the back plate is mounted to it. If there is a hole for wires with the back plate mounted to it then I wonder if you can use plate for stencil to mount to something thin. Looks like bolts are threaded all the way down. When you put bolt through device and plate do they stick out. Like far enough it could mount to something?

 

[MeanGreen420]

Nvm these pics clearly show how it could be mounted. The way I was thinking mount it would be on outside the box instead of inside like pics.

 

[SmithsJunk]

Nvm these pics clearly show how it could be mounted. The way I was thinking mount it would be on outside the box instead of inside like pics.

This is how a seller is showing it...

I decided to run x2 wood screws through the plate into the wall. Then two bolts through the plate towards the face of the switch with nuts holding them in place. The nuts will fit into the holes made for them. I'll use washers and nuts on the front to secure it.

I think I explained that right. Very stoned right now.

 

[SmithsJunk]

I am really struggling remembering all the rules to DC circuits. There is something here that I'm not used to dealing with, multiple power sources on the same circuit. I just keep seeing a transistor and the electron flow through the doped crystal when I look at this.

After a lot of mulling I'm pretty certain I should go with the top (#1) diagram. Three separate legs that terminate together at the posts of Batt#1 and strap Batt#2 in parallel with no further terminations.

I can't remember if electron flow or the mppt charge monitoring allow me to do 2 & 3, then 4 is basically the same as 1 (but the load is terminated in a stupid spot). If i drew a a real circuit diagram from the top down with "all" of the components, instead of these weak a$$ diagrams, I'd see where I went wrong.

It most certainly would help if I could find my electronics dictionary and brush up a bit. I 'am' remembering after 20yrs but with my funky memory it's been a slow process.

I also found out today I need to buy specialty grounding lugs or bonding washers to ground out the panel's aluminum frames. To make it a bit more tricky finding the right parts, because it's outside, I need to avoid mixing metals so I don't corrosion from electrolysis.

(Now I remember. I'm pretty sure I can do #3 but it's a moot point after deciding on #1.)

 

[SmithsJunk]

Found some grounding lugs with WEEB tin plated piercing washers x10 for $24. I'll run an unbroken 6awg solid copper wire to a grounding rod or rebar stake (altogether around $50-$70).

Just one more overlooked expense, but this will all still be worth it for a $100-$150 reduction in monthly power consumption. Hopefully by spring this system will be running my grow lights and a separate 200w solar generator will be running the trailer. The reason I've hooked up 4 panels now is to make it so this system can be converted to an AC generator within minutes. Everything including the AC inverter will be in place for the switch.

 

[Madmax]

She will b a good setup when you have it sorted out Junk..i like it..

 

[SmithsJunk]

She will b a good setup when you have it sorted out Junk..i like it..

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I have to admit, this has been a struggle for me. So many times during the process I felt like I was just banging my head against the wall (all the while hoping it might knock some of that old knowledge loose).

On a very positive note, when I'm done and it's been successfully energised, I'll be able help if any of you guys want to do one. I will draw up a complete diagram with all the components in place when I'm done, also, a list of components w/prices. That way no one will have to guess the cost for their own off-grid system.

**Important note**

**Electricians are not electronics technicians. They are not qualified to install DC systems without proper electronics training.**

My cousin's mom had a solar system/generator installed by one of her electrician friends. It caught fire and destroyed the system. The reason this happened was because DC current does not work the same as AC and will not trigger AC breakers, but an electrician doesn't necessarily know this. An electrician also may not know to fuse every leg of a solar system, where to install the fuses, or how to calculate the correct fuse sise. Each parallel leg must be fused independently and adjusted for panels in a series/parallel within that leg. There are other considerations too like the input/output capacity of the charge controller. For instance, my 60a mppt charge controller can handle up to 3600w of panels, a 48v battery bank, and 150v input, but to utilise these numbers the battery bank must be 48v. My battery bank is only 12v, since for now, it's being used to run a 12v RV load. On a 12v bank the maximum input voltage is 60v and max 900w of panels. I don't have enough fuses at the moment for 4 panels in parallel so I needed to run it in a different configuration (series adds the voltage of each panel and parallel adds the current from ea). Since each of my panels generates roughly 18v and 6a then if connected all 4 in series the combined voltage is 72v. That's 12v more than it's max input of 60v on a 12v bank. I have two options, run all 4 in parallel (18v, 24a) or in a combination of series and parallel x2 panels in series by x2 parallel legs (36v, 12a). I'm not going to show my calculations on this next part, I'll explain in a later post when it's important. To fuse 4 of these panels in parallel, each leg will get a 10a fuse (18v, 6a) and after the junction a 30a fuse (18v, 24a). With a x2 parallel x2 series, 10a fuse each leg (36v, 6a) after the junction a 30a fuse (36v, 12a). The 30a fuse stayed the same because it's protecting the 10awg wire rated for 30a whereas the panels are using 12awg normally rated for 22a (?) but I think this particular wire is rated for 30a. So I guess they can use a 30a fuse as well but I like to fuse for needs and would fuse with a 20a (36v, 12a, it's recommended to over-fuse components/panels by 25% and then code requires another 25%, I think??? So 12a+25%=16a+25%=20 (guess it won't be in a later post, hehe). Don't take the over-fuse calculations as set in stone because I'm tired and might have confused over gauging for grounding with over-fusing.

My brain is burnt. I might have done some wrong calculations but can't tell for sure right now. I'll verify and sort this in the morning with a fresh mind.

 

[SmithsJunk]

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I have to admit, this has been a struggle for me. So many times during the process I felt like I was just banging my head against the wall (all the while hoping it might knock some of that old knowledge loose).

On a very positive note, when I'm done and it's been successfully energised, I'll be able help if any of you guys want to do one. I will draw up a complete diagram with all the components in place when I'm done, also, a list of components w/prices. That way no one will have to guess the cost for their own off-grid system.

**Important note**

**Electricians are not electronics technicians. They are not qualified to install DC systems without proper electronics training.**

My cousin's mom had a solar system/generator installed by one of her electrician friends. It caught fire and destroyed the system. The reason this happened was because DC current does not work the same as AC and will not trigger AC breakers, but an electrician doesn't necessarily know this. An electrician also may not know to fuse every leg of a solar system, where to install the fuses, or how to calculate the correct fuse sise. Each parallel leg must be fused independently and adjusted for panels in a series/parallel within that leg. There are other considerations too like the input/output capacity of the charge controller. For instance, my 60a mppt charge controller can handle up to 3600w of panels, a 48v battery bank, and 150v input, but to utilise these numbers the battery bank must be 48v. My battery bank is only 12v, since for now, it's being used to run a 12v RV load. On a 12v bank the maximum input voltage is 60v and max 900w of panels. I don't have enough fuses at the moment for 4 panels in parallel so I needed to run it in a different configuration (series adds the voltage of each panel and parallel adds the current from ea). Since each of my panels generates roughly 18v and 6a then if connected all 4 in series the combined voltage is 72v. That's 12v more than it's max input of 60v on a 12v bank. I have two options, run all 4 in parallel (18v, 24a) or in a combination of series and parallel x2 panels in series by x2 parallel legs (36v, 12a). I'm not going to show my calculations on this next part, I'll explain in a later post when it's important. To fuse 4 of these panels in parallel, each leg will get a 10a fuse (18v, 6a) and after the junction a 30a fuse (18v, 24a). With a x2 parallel x2 series, 10a fuse each leg (36v, 6a) after the junction a 30a fuse (36v, 12a). The 30a fuse stayed the same because it's protecting the 10awg wire rated for 30a whereas the panels are using 12awg normally rated for 22a (?) but I think this particular wire is rated for 30a. So I guess they can use a 30a fuse as well but I like to fuse for needs and would fuse with a 20a (36v, 12a, it's recommended to over-fuse components/panels by 25% and then code requires another 25%, I think??? So 12a+25%=16a+25%=20 (guess it won't be in a later post, hehe). Don't take the over-fuse calculations as set in stone because I'm tired and might have confused over gauging for grounding with over-fusing.

My brain is burnt. I might have done some wrong calculations but can't tell for sure right now. I'll verify and sort this in the morning with a fresh mind.

Yup, math was wrong. It's 12a+25%=15a+25%=18.5a. I was nodding off in the middle of writing that last post. I bet I got other numbers wrong as well. But the concepts are sound and when I post a more comprehensive diagram I'll show the correct amps/volts/watts and formulas.

 

[SmithsJunk]

Should have the solar system up and running by Monday. Ordered the rest of the little stuff from Amazon last night. Sheesh, large gauge copper wire is expensive now. 6-1/0 awg is running $1-$5ft.

Most of what i had to buy was for shock and fire prevention. I can ser why a lot of people start fires when they put together their own systems. Those "complete" solar kits they sell have none of safety equipment included. Fuses, grounds, isolator switches, etc... You'd think it would all be included, but nope.

Anyone interested in building one pay attention when I've posted my final diagram. It'll be a real eye opener as to how incomplete the "complete" systems are. The sellers can get away with it because there's practically no regulation on small off-grid systems.

Will post up shots of the system and diagram by Mon-Tues.

Have a great day everybody.

 

[SmithsJunk]

Sorry everyone. I was very ill. Was being poisoned by some black mold growing below my furnace blower intake.

I'll be back on track with the solar in the next few days, had some parts I ordered that didn't fit what I needed. My new parts will be here Friday so hopefully early next week I'll have it all set up... weather permitting.

 

[SmithsJunk]

If anyone needs info on how to plan your solar system, this schematic was given to me as a reference by a senior member on a solar forum.

I'm using 12v 100 amp hour sealed lead acid (AGM) batteries. I found out from the solar experts on the other forum that x2 6v 225ah flooded lead acid (FLA) batteries in series then run in parallel 12v sets are the go-to for off-grid solar systems. They said my batts were overkill for an RV but because theyre AGM it won't hurt to use them. They also told me that my system is too small to need the fuses I'm installing or the earth ground and that I'm wasting my money on these items. On this point I disagree. I know of systems catching fire for lack of proper fusing that weren't much larger than mine. Since it does not negatively impact the system by installing them, I'd rather error on the side of caution.

*WARNING* Do not run an AC inverter 1000w or larger on a 12v system. This is where the experts over there tell me solar noobs make the mistake that starts fires. In this area I strongly urge you to heed their advice.

 

[JWM2]

True. Where people mess up with fuses is they run ones that are too large for the application. Then the wiring or circuit catches fire because that is the point of least resistance. The whole point of a fuse is that it’s the point of least resistance and so when the energy spikes it blows before the wire or circuit heats up and catches fire.

 

[Farmer P]

Right on SJ! This is getting good. I can't wait to see you growing some solar weed! I like to light my bong hits with a 6 inch magnifying glass when I'm outside. Pure clean smoke with no burnt butane added in. :cool:

 

[SmithsJunk]

True. Where people mess up with fuses is they run ones that are too large for the application. Then the wiring or circuit catches fire because that is the point of least resistance. The whole point of a fuse is that it’s the point of least resistance and so when the energy spikes it blows before the wire or circuit heats up and catches fire.

They were telling me the panels didn't need to be fused at all until 3 or more parallel strings were run on a combiner box.

This (senior member) guy was was telling me "Solar panels are current sources, not voltage sources. The panels are a source of current unlike batteries that are a source of voltage" so they are won't overheat wires like batteries will. As a trained electronics technician I beg to differ with that little tidbit of stupidity. Both panels and batteries have voltage (measure of potential electromotive force) and when that potential is introduced to a circuit then the electrons move as current (amperage, the measurement of electron flow). I think this guy is under the impression that amps and volts are just two types of energy, not a measurement of two different states of energy.

Aside from that, he did have experience in putting together systems so I won't "throw the baby out with the bathwater".