just a little nervous about making clones (90-100% humidity?)

[Califlower]

So, a book said I need to maintain 90-100 humidity while rooting at low light levels, preferably in the red spectrum, say 2700-3000 kelvin. Fine, but I'm not sure how to maintain this high humidity with my setup. And for the low light, can I just put it above a T5 where it gets indirect light, or way low below like 6 feet? Can I root them outside in the shade in a cold frame? How to get the high humidity, can I just use a plastic dome, but then what about airflow, and then if I have airflow the humidity might drop too much. What is crucial about doing this and what is myth?

 

[Camdawg]

Unlax smoke a joint and take some cuts

I use either rockwool or peat cubes (I've seen bug larvae in them so tossed them) cut clone stick in clone goo stick in cube repeat
I mist the dome lid to the tray and leave it for a day. I mist just the dome every 24 hour for 3 days after 3 days I open the vents amd mist less frequently.
I place my tray and dome under a single 45w t5 about 6" above the dome. @GhostFace has an awesome thread on his diy cloning set up you should definitely search and check it out

 

[Seamaiden]

So, a book said I need to maintain 90-100 humidity while rooting at low light levels, preferably in the red spectrum, say 2700-3000 kelvin. Fine, but I'm not sure how to maintain this high humidity with my setup. And for the low light, can I just put it above a T5 where it gets indirect light, or way low below like 6 feet? Can I root them outside in the shade in a cold frame? How to get the high humidity, can I just use a plastic dome, but then what about airflow, and then if I have airflow the humidity might drop too much. What is crucial about doing this and what is myth?

You know, once I stopped worrying about RH I've never looked back. In fact, the clones I began making in high RH didn't withstand the transition to normal or ambient RH conditions very well. But the clones I began making using ambient RH have stood up just fine. In other words, high RH is not, in fact, crucial. Being sure to use sufficiently low light levels so as to ensure the clones grow roots and don't try to photosynthesize is more important IME.

IF I'm using my veg-table, then the clones go on the very ends where the fluoros have the lowest light output, or below the canopy of the mothers.

The easiest way I've found to clone, outside something like an aerocloner, is to use perlite in cups with holes at the bottom in a tray of some sort. Stick the cuttings into the perlite, then add some water + kelp to the tray. Just keep water/feed in that tray for a week, maybe two, and you'll have rooted cuts. Again, make *sure* there isn't too much light or they'll take forever to root. So on top of the T5 is perfect, possibly better since it'll be a little bit warmer than down on the floor (if I'm imagining your set-up right).

 

[mekannic]

years and years ago i took clones an ancient, and probably disapproved of by all the real growers here, way. however, it worked just fine.

i don't remember the entire method from start to finish, but it is similar to taking a cutting. you just leave the cutting on the mother until it roots. you scar the branch where you want the roots, just like cuttings, except you don't cut it off the mother, just score the stem in place, several 45 degree shallow cuts on different sides. then you brush on your choice of rooting hormone, then, take a small portion of cheesecloth with some soil in it and wrap around the branch where you made your cuts. secure it in place and keep moist until you see roots peeking through the cheesecloth, very hard to see white on white, so keep looking hard, and when the roots peek out, snip and plant and done.

much more tedious and difficult than taking cuttings, but as far as i know, 100% successful 100% of the time, not one clone death ever for me.

it is tricky to get the wrap around the stem without making a mess, but i like getting my hands dirty. and for the timid not wanting to cut clones clean off the mother and hope they do it right, this would be one way of guaranteeing at least one clone survives. try both and if both live, YAY!!!

just another way to do it, don't bash me for this method, i haven't done it that way in a long time, it is just what it is and it ain't mine. i don't own it, i just share it.

 

[geologic]

years and years ago i took clones an ancient, and probably disapproved of by all the real growers here, way. however, it worked just fine.

i don't remember the entire method from start to finish, but it is similar to taking a cutting. you just leave the cutting on the mother until it roots. you scar the branch where you want the roots, just like cuttings, except you don't cut it off the mother, just score the stem in place, several 45 degree shallow cuts on different sides. then you brush on your choice of rooting hormone, then, take a small portion of cheesecloth with some soil in it and wrap around the branch where you made your cuts. secure it in place and keep moist until you see roots peeking through the cheesecloth, very hard to see white on white, so keep looking hard, and when the roots peek out, snip and plant and done.

much more tedious and difficult than taking cuttings, but as far as i know, 100% successful 100% of the time, not one clone death ever for me.

it is tricky to get the wrap around the stem without making a mess, but i like getting my hands dirty. and for the timid not wanting to cut clones clean off the mother and hope they do it right, this would be one way of guaranteeing at least one clone survives. try both and if both live, YAY!!!

just another way to do it, don't bash me for this method, i haven't done it that way in a long time, it is just what it is and it ain't mine. i don't own it, i just share it.

Air Layering--
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/search/1899407/?q=air+layering&o=date&c[node]=5 ...

 

[mekannic]

is that what that technique is called? i would have never remembered how in a million years. hope i got it close to what the instructions in that link are.

i am having problems of my own right now, emergency seedling problem, and can't take the time to go read up on that just yet, but i want to. thanks for the link.

if anybody can help i posted pics and descriptions and what i have done so far in a new thread.

https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/from-seed-in-peat-pellets-stunted-growth.63790/

 

[geologic]

You simplifyed it quite nicely.

I started to reply to your problem thread by spouting the standard peat moss is highly aciditic "wisdom";
but found this before I did--
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/lawns/msg0910163320132.html?6 ...

 

[mekannic]

well i didn't notice on the bag before i bought it that it said something about being a seedling specific SPM (and no, not south park mexican) and that it contained light nutes. i read the bag and tried to take a pic to post of the ingredient list but camera died. it had really low values of available nutes, under one percent. and at the bottom it said fert content 1.18 percent

i have always used peat pellets to start and planted to dirt after sprouting. never heard that about peat and glad it was a false rumor.

i have searched and searched the forums and am getting very anxious and nervous and worried and....and, and and. kinda feeling a little nauseous right now.

am searching through the infirmary right now, but i don't know what i am doing, don't know how to use it and apparently am not good at using the forum search tool either.

will post a pic of the peat label when camera charges.

thanks geo. hopefully somebody will stumble across my thread and clue me in.

 

[Seamaiden]

The first time I made clones, I used some of my plastic food containers, toilet paper tubes cut in half and dirt. A lot rotted, but a lot more took! I don't recommend this method to any but the certifiably insane.

 

[mekannic]

i really didn't mean to hijack this thread.

back on topic now, does anybody still make the extra slits in the stem after taking a cutting and before dipping in clone gel? i haven't seen anybody on youtube do that lately or heard anybody talk about it? i always did that, but i also always used a powder and straight to dirt. i just finished my first aero rig and i think it will be great for cloning. can't wait to get a decent mother.

i have never had the luxuries we kids have these days.

maybe a simple aero bucket will help alleviate the trepidation of taking clones. it's a real easy and very cheap build and i felt great after getting mine finished and watching it pump and spray. a real sense of accomplishment. finally getting something done right for once!!

 

[mekannic]

Unlax smoke a joint and take some cuts

@GhostFace has an awesome thread on his diy cloning set up you should definitely search and check it out

i have been searching and searching and can't find that diy cloning setup you mentioned. umm, can you give me better keywords to use? i'm a bit inarticulate at times and i can only find one mention of clone by that user. any help finding that setup would be really appreciated.

 

[Protaide]

Suppose I'll jump in also with some thoughts / personal experience.

I believe the main reason that "classic cutting methods" recommend high RH is to reduce transpiration and thus moisture uptake during a time which a plant cannot uptake efficiently on its' own. As well, low light augments this by reducing photosynthesis, which will slow usage of stored nutrients within the plant. An interesting thing to consider with stored nutrients is mobile vs. immobile elements. One could theorize that immobile elements cannot be used in any great degree during this stage; as they cannot be relocated nor can new be absorbed without roots.

Now as to whether a cutting requires special high RH and low light; is more dependent on the method used for rooting. I've done most all methods over the years, I suppose and only certain cases would require a humidity controlled enclosure. If you are doing "old school" type cuttings where you put a cut into moist potting soil alone; then you will probably need to keep the environment around the plant high RH by an enclosure or dome. In situations like this; I've used sealable acrylic cases along with a moistened pea gravel floor in cases like this with 100% survival. However, this old school system is probably the most prone to issues and requires the longest time for rooting (2 weeks +/-). An easy way to tell if you have 100% humidity in any enclosure or dome is by having condensation apparent on walls / lid.

More modern types of cuts used in this industry are typically variations of some form of hydro (continual supply of moisture). In many of these scenarios, it is possible to not require any enclosure or lid and still maintain a "localized high RH area". The net result of any auto-watering method in root stage results in a higher moisture content in the medium (as opposed to a hand watered once cup). This moisture is continually evaporating into the air right around the cut foliage itself; thus augmenting RH in that zone. As well, certain auto-watering methods like DWC will further exacerbate this high RH area as a result of constant air exchange out of the water holding chamber. In cases like this, no dome or any enclosure can be utilized.

I guess a last note on light. Ultimately, light level is going to be related to how long your cuts take to root. The longer you typically wait for roots; the less light you should have. However, you can judge by watching your cut as it roots (more color loss by rooting point could use a bit less light). I don't imagine you need HID lighting during this stage, but outside of this; I've never had issues with various lighting methods. Typically I run around 1000 lumens per square foot for cuts.

Hope this helps.

 

[Camdawg]

i have been searching and searching and can't find that diy cloning setup you mentioned. umm, can you give me better keywords to use? i'm a bit inarticulate at times and i can only find one mention of clone by that user. any help finding that setup would be really appreciated.

Damn I can't find it either and I know I posted in the thread. Oh well moral of the story take clones dude!

 

[mekannic]

I started to reply to your problem thread by spouting the standard peat moss is highly aciditic "wisdom";
but found this before I did--
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/lawns/msg0910163320132.html?6 ...
OLD PHARMER

been reading through all kinds of threads and every single opinion kinda contradicts the info found in that link. hmmmm, makes me wonder. sure are a lot of people that believe in that myth.

BUT these guys don't have anything nice to say about it at all!!

hell, as it turns out i don't know the first thing about potting soil or potting mix or nothing.

i was kinda wondering what people meant when they kept saying soilless and were not referring to a hydro method of some kind. pHuck me running.

 

[Seamaiden]

When I was working the ornamental aquatic industry, wanna know what I used for my most delicate South American fishes that require the softest of waters, on the acidic side...?

Filtration through peat moss. So this cat in that forum saying it doesn't work is leaving me scratching my head. What's next, dolomite lime won't keep the water column pH shifted up towards 8?

 

[mekannic]

Seamaiden, did you go to that first link and read about the acidic "myth"?

i don't know what to believe BUT, after perusing some of your threads withSquiggly i would trust your advice beyond that of any other i have come across at this point. I would also like to get Squiggly to weigh in, too. i am sure his opinion (aka fact) would jive closely with yours with you guy's (and gal's) backgrounds.

anyway, i have definitely disposed of the peat. the second link in my other post (the one i provided: click here) shed some light on the truth of the damage to the environment done by the peat moss industry. so that along with all my other issues, plus i can't use it for my venus flytrap either because it has nute which will kill the flytrap, it's gone. never to be used by me again.

 

[Seamaiden]

Yes, they're saying that you can't acidify with peat and are countering claims that it is "very" acidic (undefined). However, they went further to state that it does nothing in the water column, my own extensive experience contradicts that. I don't know how it locks onto carbonates and bicarbonates, but it does soften, and therefore help acidify the water column and what I liked about it was that it did so 'gently' for the fishes, as opposed to dumping a bunch of pH down into the water column trying to force it to stay down.

I think there is a place for peat. As I understand it, Canada's peat marshes are harvested sustainably. However, I don't like it for a standalone product to plant in.

 

[mekannic]

hey Califlower, any progress with the clones? good news i hope?

 

[Cort]

I followed SUBLBC's youtube videos and did it step for step. Worked out well.

Then I tried the "ice cube tray cloner" method and that worked out well also. Its not hard. Directions here https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/ez-cloner-60.12802/#post-223714

 

[Califlower]

hey Califlower, any progress with the clones? good news i hope?

Been busy fighting spider mites, and I wanted to address those before I made cuts. However I got a tall humidity dome and I have a shelf above the T5 lights, and above that are old T12 lights - I can run one warm florescent above the cuts if the light from below isn't enough. I grow in soil, so I don't like rockwool, so I will probably use a mix of peat and perlite with some worm castings, or maybe soiless seedling mix, perlite, and worm castings. Supposedly a small amount of worm castings helps. Oh and I will put them in small clear plastic cups with holes cut in the bottom. I'll start with a couple and see if they die, lol.