Just how good are LEDs now?

[JrrTokein]

I just watched a video on youtube where they said that there are LED lights which have the output of a 1000w light but only take 400ws. Does anyone know if there are really any LED lights these days that can actually produce bud which is as good as a 1000w HPS? Has anyone ever done a side by side grow off with a modern LED system vs an HPS.

 

[woodsmaneh]

check back in a couple years or check out induction lights

 

[ken dog]

in my opinion, LED's are better than HPS... But you really need to load up on the wattage... 40 to 60 watts per square foot.... 30 watts per square foot is pushing it, and will not give you the results that you want.

plus, if you use a thousand watt HPS, you will need to deal with heating and ventilation issues just for the light.

LEDs still put out a considerable amount of heat, but it's not the same as HPS.

so basically, 400 watts of LED could never be the same as a thousand watt HPS... you need much more LED than that.
400 watts of LED will probably cover a 3x3 square foot area minimally adequately.

 

[619ster]

My LED garden with buds the same size that come from my 1000w HPS garden. But this is only -240w of LEDs:

 

[ken dog]

here's a picture taken just a moment ago...
I have 540 watts of LED's over this 3 by 3 foot canopy... it is in its third day of flush.
I also included a close up of one of the flowers.

 

[JrrTokein]

Wow beautiful photos, I am impressed. Can you please tell me more about your set up? What lights are you using? Is the bud that you get from LEDs as good as the bud that you get from HPS? Just how many watts of LEDs do you need to mimic a 1000w HPS? In terms of yield and light foot print? Are 5w LEDs better then 3w LEDs? Does it really matter on what lights you use or does it just matter about the total amount of watts that you are using regardless of how many LEDs you have. What I mean to ask is are two 180 W LEDs better then one 300 w unit? Can you really yeild the same as you could on an HPS? Thanks for posting those photos and the info!

 

[monkeymun]

I'm going to keep watching how others go before I commit to LEDs. There's definitely some good results out there to date. Very promising.

 

[619ster]

Wow beautiful photos, I am impressed. Can you please tell me more about your set up? What lights are you using? Is the bud that you get from LEDs as good as the bud that you get from HPS? Just how many watts of LEDs do you need to mimic a 1000w HPS? In terms of yield and light foot print? Are 5w LEDs better then 3w LEDs? Does it really matter on what lights you use or does it just matter about the total amount of watts that you are using regardless of how many LEDs you have. What I mean to ask is are two 180 W LEDs better then one 300 w unit? Can you really yeild the same as you could on an HPS? Thanks for posting those photos and the info!

For my grow I posted pics of, that was a 2x4x4 space with 2x 120w LEDs from growevolution.com (TBS10 models, I have some of their Budboss models now too). I extracted heat with a 80 cfm booster fan. The yield was about 5+ oz of primo buds (no popcorn or trim included), 160g approx., or nearly .7 GPW. I could have done better if the space was just a little bigger all around. The footprint of the two lamps could've exceeded the 2x4 space that was allowed, and my plants grew up to only 4" close to the panels which blocked lots of light to lower sites as well as probably stressed a few tops. Eventually I made adjustments to get the plants trained down some to be 6-8" from panels, which was better, but still not ideal. Bud size and density equaled that of my 1000w HPS grows with same strain (been running same strain for a year now), but the quality might be just a tad better under LEDs. I seem to get more flavor and oil from the LED buds over HPS buds. Grow style and strains don't change so it's not that.

As for purchasing LEDs, you need to do your research first! Can't stress that enough when it comes to LEDs, as they are certainly not all created equal. I've got 2w, 3w, 5w, 9w and now 20w LEDs. The 9w and 20w ones come with clusters composed of either 2w or 3w LEDs. Got plenty more LED runs under my belt, and currently have 3 different LED setups. They all have different panels from different brands which each has their strong points. If trying to match or compare to 1000w HPS results, I'd go with at the very least 900w of LEDs. Best arrangement IMO would be 4x 250w panels so you can level the lights out according to canopy in that area. If you grow with an even canopy as is and prefer to have less panels to adjust, then 2x LEDs or 3x LEDs equaling ~1000w would be ideal. Specs of LEDs are more of a preferrence thing, and you should concern yourself more with quality of product and the customer service a company provides rather than worrying if 2w or 3w or 5w diodes are better IMO.

Here's another grow I got going on under 300w LED with a single plant. Won't hit any special numbers with this grow, but didn't plan to. Just a headstash grow since I had an extra plant outgrowing the veg chamber and had an extra LED I wasn't using:

 

[Camdawg]

@619ster would agree that LED is over hyped and not to fuck around with cheap "ebay" leds?

 

[JrrTokein]

What are the best brands out there? Most brands tend to be extremely expensive. Ebay has some cheap ones but they look sketchy. Where can you get good ones cheap?

So to duplicate a 1k hps you think you would need a 900w unit or the equivalent wattage?

 

[Greengenes]

To actually live up to 1000w power and coverage abilities, you will need 600+w of top LED's. Your feeling about ebay being sketchy is right on. If you are going to make the jump you want a quality unit that will perform and last. But they are pricey, specially to meet coverage and power of 1000 hps. But it is what you have to do to get the true 1000 hps like performance.

Apache, A51, Illumitex, CLW, and possibly blackdog are what have shown hps equivalent performance.

 

[JrrTokein]

Greengenes I have been researching the brands that you mentioned and they all seem to be selling 5w led systems. If 3 is better then 5 what companies produce good 3w systems?

 

[Greengenes]

The total capable wattage of the chips doesn't matter. What does is how efficient the chip is at the driven wattage. 3w and 5w just mean that if max out that is what they would pull. But they are inefficient at at full power(3w or 5w) and that is why companies drive them all pretty much the same, weather 3w or 5w...they all get driven around 2w. Because they are doing 150+lm/w when driven at 2w VS only 120lm/w when driven at full power. Actual power draw of the unit is what matters. There are 1w'ers that are as better than some companies 3w or 5w...but pretty much every one is using 3w or 5w capable led's now, but like I said they are only using 2w of them(which is a good thing because that is where they are most efficient/better than hps).

 

[JrrTokein]

What kind of results can you get with say 30w per square foot? Is that enough to get the "hash tops" that I keep reading about? Can someone please post pictures of dried bud that was grown under 30w per square foot or less? It seems that in order to run 60w per square foot you would need an insane amount of LEDs, which would draw more power then a 1000w. I though LEDs are supposed to be more efficient then traditional lightning...

Also LEDs are better then induction lightning right? If you have the money they are the best option right?

 

[ken dog]

in my opinion, basically, the footprint of an LED light, is the light itself, and about 6 inches more on each side... that's it.

for my Current Culture 8XL, I will use 8 240 watt LEDs... for a 4 by 10 foot area... that is 48 watts per square foot.

here's a couple of pictures as requested... These were grown with 50 plus watts per square foot.
one is cured, one is fresh on the tree

 

[Greengenes]

I told you it will take 600+w to equal a 1000 hps in coverage an intensity.


35w-40w/sqft with good lights is about where tech is right now.

I have gone lower than 30w/sqft but got poor results. Now I am at 40w/sqft and getting amazing results. But I am using apache's so I didn't really spare on the cost. Get what you pay for..specially when I first got into led's.

This bud was given back to us a year after we gave the guy some. I was so surprised when the guy said check this, and pulled the buds.
They were grown in this grow...

 

[JrrTokein]

Out of the brands that you listed will they all produce amazing results? What are your thoughts on CLW lights? How do they stack up against Apache lights? There seems to be a huge difference in price. Do you know if LEDs are better then induction lights? I have seen some videos where people have gotten awesome results from induction lights, but from what i have read a lot of people seem to think LEDs are the best thing out there. Then again there are people who swear by induction lightning. Anyone ever done a side by side comparison of LED vs induction?

 

[ken dog]

I don't know about those Apache Tech 120s... They use 120 1 watt light bulbs.

the 240 watt lights I was talking about, have 80 3 watt bulbs... from HTG Supply

 

[BIGDAMBUD1]

I don't know about those Apache Tech 120s... They use 120 1 watt light bulbs.

the 240 watt lights I was talking about, have 80 3 watt bulbs... from HTG Supply

Same here KD...I think these are a fine example of what has become a very good alternative to lighting as we know it...I'm no chemist or scientist or engineer...but for anyone using these 7 band from HTG...solely alone or at 6:1...will get great results...if not...it's for sure other issues going on, other than lights or spectrums...IMO....and please don't ask me to compare to the other brands or HPS/MH...I got those HOT sob's in most any wattage...they work fine in my room too...but it's not nite and day difference...I never expected my LED's to outperform anything I've used as far as yield...they weren't designed to surpass really...but they make it easier to manage enviormental issues in any garden...a lot less of other things cut back when using them ...make it as hard or as simple as you want...there's a zillion options I say...to each his own...I like to set it and forget it in my room... and not worry about the grow at all...when I start battling my garden you can guarantee it's because I have gotten more than I need to be successful with it or the beans were shit...I treat 100 plants as one simple pot, and never try to get more than the breeder of the seed intended under average conditions for them...I expect a little less anyhow...that's being realistic imo....I never see breeders telling, that you need this...or add a little more of that, or this at the end, as being required to be successful...average decent seed,dirt, water ,light...and no more...will fill any jar if kept in proportion...there's no magic in a bottle or light to grow good meds or make it produce 10 times more...start with a high yielder if that's your concern,and don't try to make an average yielder produce "Jack and the beanstalk "results with a damn light...it's not that easy...a waste in my book...for the time, money, headache, and effort you put forth in lights will net a min return at the end...it starts with simple and great seed for success period, and nothing you can do will make them or any strain "Godzilla" yielders if they are not inherent of that to start with...LED's...wheewww..they tote a black eye for sure most anywhere they're mentioned with some peeps....they coming of age whether anyone likes it or not...just like flouro's and incadesent's in your home...LED's will win in the end here over the old...better stock up on them energy wasting hogs if you plan on using them much longer...the cooperatives will make sure of that soon enough...either one keeps my jars full...so I have no worries there on when...what-ever they decide won't effect my peaceful time in the room one bit, or the level in my jars...I do guarantee simple, and LED will work for anyone wanting successful grows/harvest in their gardens...Example taught me years ago from a ranking factory auto engineer which rings so true still...most importantly he said..."never forget the basics of your trade here and you'll be highly appraised/rewarded in the job force...never let hype or education detur you from these being in ck first and foremost...Intake, Compression, Fire, Exhaust...your running/perfomance issue will always be with one of these...no matter the make, HP, number of cylinders, or cubic in... etc...with all the computers and space-age designs/enhancements available in the world, none can replace any of these 4 in a naturally aspirated internal combustion engine of any kind...but they can and will enhance it's performance"....dirt track, paved track, moon, or mars...it's up to you where you going with it....same applies in your garden....seed. decent dirt, water, light.....get the picture....I use um...and they work fine...I'm cross the neg shit you hear...B

 

[Greengenes]

I have an induction. LED's have more power, so they are my choice for flower. But is will flower better than any cheap HTG, ebay, china reseller led. But like you said...some people are doing great with inductions. From my experience it's about 3 inductions=two 1000w. Inductions do really well in numbers because they gain from cross over better than led's.

That 240w unit probably only uses 150w.

The AT120's came out in 2010. And are still some of the best lights out. But there are new models AT200(newer at120), and the at600(actually better than 1000w). Both using 5w capable led's.
Apache has the most powerful lights on the market. I will test any lights against them. M0re par light than even 1000hps with the new at600.

First pic:I am vegging a 4x4 with an indagro induction then will be flowering with the AT600. About a wee or so till the flip.
Second pic: is the at600 over some plants
Third pic: is the at600 and the at200