Just Read Logics Sticky Thread On Pgr's

[jumpincactus]

Wassup Farmers, Just spent an hour reviewing @logics sticky he posted some time back on the use of PGR's and their alleged toxicity.I make no claim either way as to the validity of this claim, however, I will add that when it comes to corporations operating for profit, the watchdogs that are supposed to regulate the industries they govern, I personally don't trust any of them......... Ya I'm talking about you FDA!!! .......Suffice to say I have heard enough about PGR's that I will NOT use them ever. But as I am not a scientist I cant know for sure one way or another.

As an salt based fert guy converted to organics I could not help but notice that several folks mentioned in the thread that even in the absence of verified research that the flushing of the medicine as many do would alleviate the threat. Well I am not a rocket scientist for sure but I would question this claim. I am hoping someone with more of a science based background can help me out.

I understand that flushing works well to release the salts that have accumulated in the media and root zone not too complicated there, I get that. What I am curious about is, while the PGR's are being assimilated thru the rhizospere and into the plant structure don't the chemicals become fixed within the plant tissue? So with that said, how would flushing with water take away minerals or chemicals that are permanent (assumed permanent) affixed in the plants tissue ?..........Does that make sense? Even with the whole flushing thing aside from PGR's does flushing actually take away any of the ferts used to feed the plant. Again Im thinking if the ferts are assimilated and made part of the plant, how then does flushing take them away????......... I have always been told you are what you eat!!!

Any one that can shed a little, or a lot of light on my question is welcome......... Peace

 

[jumpincactus]

Mhhhhhhh, 4 views and no enlightenment. Guess I will go wake up my 110 year old mountain sage. He might be able to help. At the very least, bet he has some hand rubbed Charas I can smoke.......:rolleyes:........ That will enlighten me........ LOL

 

[Seamaiden]

Ya I'm talking about you FDA

You probably should read this.

http://www.slate.com/articles/healt...nd_scientific_misconduct_are_hidden_from.html

 

[jumpincactus]

You probably should read this.

http://www.slate.com/articles/healt...nd_scientific_misconduct_are_hidden_from.html

Thank you Lady Sea

 

[MGRox]

Well, I suppose when you flush (if long enough, early enough and low ec enough) any mobile elements could be removed from tissues and thus lowered. However, specific to MJ; it does all it can to preserve the flowers, so much of the mobilized nutes would be from leaf matter instead of flowers. Though, immobile elements are deposited for good and would be "you are what you eat".

As for PGR's I have no clue, but I would presume 1 of 2 cases happens. 1. If the PGR's are broken down to other compounds at some point; then that would just leave the reduced compounds. 2. If the plant does not have the ability to re-mobilize PGR's then they would ( I assume) stay.

Plants do have the ability to mobilize, produce and regulate several PGR's, though not the one's mentioned in Logics post. Nutrients as well have an affect on PGR's; I.e. Nitrate with auxin, Phosphorus with Cytokinins etc. So, I suppose just adding nutrients, we are adding / altering certain PGR's too.

I'm guessing that the "bad" PGR's that people talk about are not broken down or mobilized and would make sense if so.

Certain PGR's that respond to specific elements also increase with deficiencies. I.e. a sulfur deficiency will increase Auxins.

I suppose other PGR's change their effect based on stage of flowering. I.e. gibberellins are a flowering inhibitor leading into flowering, but are a flowering extender at later flowering stages (3-4 whorl).

Bunch of random stuff and I'm not sure if this helps to answer any of your quandaries, but I hope it helps some.

 

[jumpincactus]

@Seamaiden I like the information and appreciate your stopping in. Can you speak to my question on whether PGR's specifically are incorporated into the plant tissue and are not flushed out by a 1-2 week flush?

 

[jumpincactus]

Well, I suppose when you flush (if long enough, early enough and low ec enough) any mobile elements could be removed from tissues and thus lowered. However, specific to MJ; it does all it can to preserve the flowers, so much of the mobilized nutes would be from leaf matter instead of flowers. Though, immobile elements are deposited for good and would be "you are what you eat".

As for PGR's I have no clue, but I would presume 1 of 2 cases happens. 1. If the PGR's are broken down to other compounds at some point; then that would just leave the reduced compounds. 2. If the plant does not have the ability to re-mobilize PGR's then they would ( I assume) stay.

Plants do have the ability to mobilize, produce and regulate several PGR's, though not the one's mentioned in Logics post. Nutrients as well have an affect on PGR's; I.e. Nitrate with auxin, Phosphorus with Cytokinins etc. So, I suppose just adding nutrients, we are adding / altering certain PGR's too.

I'm guessing that the "bad" PGR's that people talk about are not broken down or mobilized and would make sense if so.

Certain PGR's that respond to specific elements also increase with deficiencies. I.e. a sulfur deficiency will increase Auxins.

I suppose other PGR's change their effect based on stage of flowering. I.e. gibberellins are a flowering inhibitor leading into flowering, but are a flowering extender at later flowering stages (3-4 whorl).

Bunch of random stuff and I'm not sure if this helps to answer any of your quandaries, but I hope it helps some.

Thanks man. Yes I guess I would need a chemistry back ground as I am not sure what components in PGR's are mobile or \immobile once the plant takes them up. Where is squiggly when you need a chemist........ LOL

Hopefully he may catch this thread and pipe in. peace

 

[Seamaiden]

@Seamaiden I like the information and appreciate your stopping in. Can you speak to my question on whether PGR's specifically are incorporated into the plant tissue and are not flushed out by a 1-2 week flush?

No, especially given the fact that PGR stands for plant growth regulator, I cannot say how the plant may or may not metabolize it. Plants have no livers.

 

[jumpincactus]

@Seamaiden That link was an eye opener. Really validated what I already believed. Thank you

 

[Joe Fresh]

@Seamaiden I like the information and appreciate your stopping in. Can you speak to my question on whether PGR's specifically are incorporated into the plant tissue and are not flushed out by a 1-2 week flush?

i would say it depends specifically on the pgr used...some may stay for a long period of time, which is why they are for "ornamental use only"...others may be a flash of hormones used as a pgr, which are safe, and will only stay in the plants tissue for a certain amount of time(until the plant uses it all up)

 

[jumpincactus]

i would say it depends specifically on the pgr used...some may stay for a long period of time, which is why they are for "ornamental use only"...others may be a flash of hormones used as a pgr, which are safe, and will only stay in the plants tissue for a certain amount of time(until the plant uses it all up)

Thanks @Joe Fresh

 

[ivyboy1225]

I used to work at a top institution in the country, I'm talking Ivy league. And they manipulated data, falsified records, scanned illegal immigrants and put them under fake social security numbers, misallocated study funds, the whole 9 yards.

And we didn't even do pharma, which is a way more competitive and profit driven field than the one I was in.

 

[crocodile og]

Effects of the plant growth regulator, chlormequat, on mammalian fertility.

Sørensen MT1, Danielsen V.

Author information

Abstract

This paper summarizes the consequences of exposure to chlormequat, a plant growth regulator, on reproduction in mammals. Plant growth regulators are chemicals used to manipulate plant growth, flowering and fruit yield. In grain crops, plant growth regulators are applied to promote sturdier growth and reduce the risk of lodging. Chlormequat is the most common plant growth regulator. Maximum residue limits of chlormequat in food products are 10 mg/kg in oat and pear, 3 mg/kg in wheat and rye, and 0.5 mg/kg in milk. In Denmark, results from experiments with pigs in the late 1980s showed sows that display impaired reproduction, mainly impaired oestrus, when fed grain from crop treated with chlormequat. Subsequently, the advisory body to the Danish pig industry recommended limiting the use of grain (maximum 30% of diet energy) from crop treated with chlormequat given to breeding stock due to the risk of reproduction problems. More recently, experiments have been conducted to evaluate the influence of chlormequat-treated wheat crop on reproductive function in male and female mice. These experiments showed that epididymal spermatozoa from mice on feed or water containing chlormequat had compromised fertilizing competence in vitro, while reproduction in female mice was not compromised. The estimated intake of chlormequat in the pig (0.0023 mg/kg bw/day) and the mouse (0.024 mg/kg bw/day) experiments was below the acceptable daily intake of 0.05 mg/kg bw/day. Reports from the industry do not show any effects at these low levels.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16466532

 

[midwestdensies]

One of our larger clients claims he can smell the weird pgrs in meds. Hes a picky mofo proving why with physical backup everytime as well.

 

[NagaKing]

Im no scientist but as I understand it PGR's are/can be used in tiny quantities by plants, and work by creating a signalling response in the

plant telling it to grow a certain way, at certain time in it's growth cycle. I.e. more cellulose production and less oil production. Plants can also

chemically destroy these PGR's themselves, as a plant also makes their own hormones, these can travel around and can dilute the

concentrations of one another etc. I'm not into PGR's but couldnt say either way if one was ok or not.