L.E.D. Argument Thread For Dummies:)

Oldman13 · Feb 27, 2021

Oldman13 said:
It's Miracle somebody understands Miracle Grow... after all it has time release in Miracle-Gro which will be released at the wrong time,,, and I believe in fox farm products majority of the time

LOL in actuality I think you described exact purpose for miracle grow though without the bugs of course oh, also I don't believe it's sodium salt I think it's magnesium sulfate you can't use sodium salt for your plants unless you want to kill them of course.. But the whole purpose of miracle grow is feed your plants so it would have to have food in it , I believe the biggest probably would be the time release of those Foods unless it's in your vegetative State and then I don't think it would matter? Although I'm not an expert on it! I like to use Humboldt County products... and magnesium is a very good salt that your plants need it's other name would be Epsom salt

Aqua Man · Feb 27, 2021

gorillaglueaaron said:
I'm going to have to disagree with you there.

Efficacy: noun "the ability to produce a desired or intended result."

To put that into our example, the ability to produce light. I don't see how that could be interpreted as the ability to produce light given a certain wattage.

When you are talking light they are the same thing... when using them generally they are not. I get what your saying but you are looking at a definition of 2 words... when you apply the meaning to light... they are the same.

Eg. Luminous efficacy
Luminous efficiency

gorillaglueaaron · Feb 27, 2021

Aqua Man said:
When you are talking light they are the same thing... when using them generally they are not. I get what your saying but you are looking at a definition of 2 words... when you apply the meaning to light... they are the same.

Eg. Luminous efficacy

Ok well regardless of what the word means, I meant:

the amount of light that a lamp produces

Aqua Man · Feb 27, 2021

gorillaglueaaron said:
Ok well regardless of what the word means, I meant:

the amount of light that a lamp produces

Yes the intensity imo is the most important... imo. Of course assuming it's even coverage. The spectrum for structure. Then energy efficiency/efficacy.

BurnzYzBudZz · Feb 28, 2021

#allLEDSareChinesE

Icon99 · Feb 28, 2021

So far I've noticed a good bit less growth under Mars hydro led ts600 vs the roleadro 2x200w cob led I used during my last grow.

PiffinOut · Feb 28, 2021

Oldman13 said:
Typo correction... Damn it was supposed to say it is the easy part!

If it makes you feel better I have been typing and editing like shit all week,

PiffinOut · Feb 28, 2021

Aqua Man said:
Not really... intensity is the photon density.. efficacy has to do with how much electric energy is converted to photons... you can increase density by distance or adding another light. You can have an extremely efficient light that is not close enough and thus low intensity. Intensity imo means the most but yes even coverage is important. This is where cobs do better at a further distance and steips closer... then the amount of light bleed or loss also need to be looked at when trying to optimize coverage.
Im curious to see if cobs might be the perfect adolescent development light, before largescale horizonal growth starts to occur

PiffinOut · Feb 28, 2021

Decent read for those trying to understand PAR (Photosynthetically Available Radiation), PPFD (Photoysynthetic Photon Flux Density), efficacy, and PPFD Spread (ppfd variance at given area within the measurement parameters, "good spread"=consistent ppfd measurements across the board, aka low variance and vice versa ).
For the sake of clearing things up in the thread I suggest all read. I found it a helpful refreshing read.

Understanding PAR, PPF & PPFD in LED Grow Lighting

Learn the meaning and importance of PAR, PPF, and PPFD in horticultural lighting, and how Fluence uses these metrics to optimize plant performance.

fluence.science

Goblinkiller · Feb 28, 2021

BurnzYzBudZz said:
#allLEDSareChinesE

I thought osram was german

PiffinOut · Feb 28, 2021

I think we are having some fundamental misunderstandings of definitions that need to be cleared up.
In any case, from a book,
At any given similar height the following measurements can be taken and are actual definitions we can all agree on.

PAR=Photosynthetically Available Radiation (general horticulture guideline measurement I suppose; one can argue some plants require more or less of certain wavelengths along the general photosynthetic spectrum/ wavelengths than others can and that each plant has some differences in its spectrum needs which would make some PAR useless... some might require more green less blue or less red more blue some may even like yellow more than others etc which all effects a given plants)

PPF= Photosythentic Photon Flux= PAR that is produced per second. not all that useable all by itself but important to understand for "PPFD" and "spread"

PPFD= Photosynthetic Photon Flux Density at a given spot. How many photons of usuable light energy radiation are in a given area.

Full Spectrum= the requirement for all of the plant specific needs of light... aka the plant is recieving the maximum of each different part of the spectrum that it can use. Its need/wants for photons of every color are met in full.
Consider full spectrum indoors lighting like having your daily supplement. You take your daily supplement incase your dietary needs are not met by your natural eating habits (lack of natural sunlight).

Coverage= available measured light projection field area at a given height (consider coverage the area within the "spotlight" where things can light up)

PPFD "Spread"= the way we can understand the change from average/volatility of PPFD over the coverage area. A "good spread" will have the same PPFD acrross the whole coverage area. No variance away from average PPFD=Perfect Spread

As of current, we humans have only recreated light emittance in a way where PPFD has a higher level in the middle/center of our lightsource. This is quiet unlike the sun raining down up us, giving us and plants an indefinitely wide coverage area and the most even spread one could imagine with its massive distance away and sheer thermonuclear power. As such we horitculture hobbyists often try to get by our center focused light emittance issues by raising the light height, using a larger light coverage area as a means to get a more even "PPFD spread". But while they may be getting a more even "spread" where there is less weighted from center variance/volatility from average PPFD, they may also be sacrificing useable light to reflection in the process. Allow me to explain, For instance, most grow tents have as high as 97% reflectivity, which is good! But that also means 3% of all light that reflects off of them is lost and that my good sirs proves to possibly limit efficiency of your light source in your environment. When you raise your light and increase the coverage area border to a point past the plants you lower your efficiency due to reflection limitations.. In raising lights to a height where the coverage area spotlight exceeds the plant matter you increase your inefficiencies and PPF/PPFD average loss.

Understanding and making manufacturers clearly list information falls upon us as the consumers. In general, and as consumers, it is important we stay educated. In order to to hold manufacturers responsible we need to understand basic horticulture definitions so we know what we are talking about and dont make a fool out of ourselves and our wallets. Knowledge is power. Let us not be taken for fools because we wrongly assumed a manufacturer has good intensions in regards to providing truthful or transparent testing.

Manufacturers fear the educated coomsumer.

MIMedGrower · Feb 28, 2021

PiffinOut said:
I think we are having some fundamental misunderstandings of definitions that need to be cleared up.
In any case, from a book,
At any given similar height the following measurements can be taken and are actual definitions we can all agree on.

PAR=Photosynthetically Available Radiation (general horticulture guideline measurement I suppose; one can argue some plants require more or less of certain wavelengths along the general photosynthetic spectrum/ wavelengths than others can and that each plant has some differences in its spectrum needs which would make some PAR useless... some might require more green less blue or less red more blue some may even like yellow more than others etc which all effects a given plants)

PPF= Photosythentic Photon Flux= PAR that is produced per second. not all that useable all by itself but important to understand for "PPFD" and "spread"

PPFD= Photosynthetic Photon Flux Density at a given spot. How many photons of usuable light energy radiation are in a given area.

Full Spectrum= the requirement for all of the plant specific needs of light... aka the plant is recieving the maximum of each different part of the spectrum that it can use. Its need/wants for photons of every color are met in full.
Consider full spectrum indoors lighting like having your daily supplement. You take your daily supplement incase your dietary needs are not met by your natural eating habits (lack of natural sunlight).

Coverage= available measured light projection field area at a given height (consider coverage the area within the "spotlight" where things can light up)

PPFD "Spread"= the way we can understand the change from average/volatility of PPFD over the coverage area. A "good spread" will have the same PPFD acrross the whole coverage area. No variance away from average PPFD=Perfect Spread

As of current, we humans have only recreated light emittance in a way where PPFD has a higher level in the middle/center of our lightsource. This is quiet unlike the sun raining down up us, giving us and plants an indefinitely wide coverage area and the most even spread one could imagine with its massive distance away and sheer thermonuclear power. As such we horitculture hobbyists often try to get by our center focused light emittance issues by raising the light height, using a larger light coverage area as a means to get a more even "PPFD spread". But while they may be getting a more even "spread" where there is less weighted from center variance/volatility from average PPFD, they may also be sacrificing useable light to reflection in the process. Allow me to explain, For instance, most grow tents have as high as 97% reflectivity, which is good! But that also means 3% of all light that reflects off of them is lost and that my good sirs proves to possibly limit efficiency of your light source in your environment. When you raise your light and increase the coverage area border to a point past the plants you lower your efficiency due to reflection limitations.. In raising lights to a height where the coverage area spotlight exceeds the plant matter you increase your inefficiencies and PPF/PPFD average loss.

Understanding and making manufacturers clearly list information falls upon us as the consumers. In general, and as consumers, it is important we stay educated. In order to to hold manufacturers responsible we need to understand basic horticulture definitions so we know what we are talking about and dont make a fool out of ourselves and our wallets. Knowledge is power. Let us not be taken for fools because we wrongly assumed a manufacturer has good intensions in regards to providing truthful or transparent testing.

Manufacturers fear the educated coomsumer.

You mean dishonest knock off counterfeit light companies with little r and d fear us.

Standard practice in the commercial lighting industry is to educate and sell the customer for a lifetime with actual specs and the right tools for the job.

anyone remember lighting stores? Anyone ever need to light a warehouse or retail space. Its a pleasure to deal with a good company.

Keymaker · Feb 28, 2021

timber.

Homesteader · Feb 28, 2021

Not all lights come from China but it is moving that way. Environmental laws and cheap labor as well as greedy CEO's looking to increase the bottom line. Osram makes many of their higher tech lights in Malaysia but they also have factories in China for cheaper less high tech shit. Cree use to make their high end in one of the Carolinas but not sure anymore.
I am interested in trying the company in the US as well as the driver IndependenceLED Made in PA and ERGlighting Made in NY

Homesteader · Feb 28, 2021

Heard a few people here say 600 watts is 600 watts. A 600 watt HID vs LED produce the same amount of heat. Did I read this wrong?

Homesteader · Feb 28, 2021

iled – iled

independenceled.com

LED Drivers & Light Module Manufacturers | ERG Lighting

ERG Lighting provides contract manufacturing services including USA-made LED drivers, retrokits, dimming modules, emergency backup lighting solutions and more.

www.erglighting.com

Moshmen · Feb 28, 2021

Aqua Man said:
Not really... intensity is the photon density.. efficacy has to do with how much electric energy is converted to photons... you can increase density by distance or adding another light. You can have an extremely efficient light that is not close enough and thus low intensity. Intensity imo means the most but yes even coverage is important. This is where cobs do better at a further distance and steips closer... then the amount of light bleed or loss also need to be looked at when trying to optimize coverage.

This is why I feel the more diodes at a lower wattage has a large advantage because they can be kept close and really reduce the amount of light lost.

Part of the reason there is no need for bloom and veg switches on the blurples - I want all the light I can get out of em! Both switches on full grow! I’m past the burrs buts there’s plenty of farmers here still switching from veg to bloom cuttin light intensity in half , for what ? Some stretch

Moshmen · Feb 28, 2021

HENNING said:
but your amazon aglex come also from china

Prolly same factory

Rootbound · Feb 28, 2021

Oldman13 said:
Welcome to America the new China and especially with a new idiot running it you know ... That guy that calls himself our present the one that got in there illegally... Self-proclaimed president that loves China

No political ramblings aloud here. Save that bs for twitter or fb.

lvstealth · Feb 28, 2021

Oldman13 said:
Welcome to America the new China and especially with a new idiot running it you know ... That guy that calls himself our present the one that got in there illegally... Self-proclaimed president that loves China

well... i will save myself from ranting and ulcers and just say... the old senile dude paid for my first grow! cant hate that!

L.E.D. Argument Thread For Dummies:)

L.E.D. Argument Thread For Dummies:)

Oldman13

Aqua Man

gorillaglueaaron

🦍

Aqua Man

BurnzYzBudZz

HOWCan.i.helPYOU?

Icon99

PiffinOut

PiffinOut

PiffinOut

Understanding PAR, PPF & PPFD in LED Grow Lighting

Goblinkiller

PiffinOut

MIMedGrower

Keymaker

Homesteader

Homesteader

Homesteader

iled – iled

LED Drivers & Light Module Manufacturers | ERG Lighting

Moshmen

Moshmen

Rootbound

lvstealth

L.E.D. Argument Thread For Dummies:)

L.E.D. Argument Thread For Dummies:)

Oldman13

Aqua Man

gorillaglueaaron

🦍

Aqua Man

BurnzYzBudZz

HOWCan.i.helPYOU?

Icon99

PiffinOut

PiffinOut

PiffinOut

Understanding PAR, PPF & PPFD in LED Grow Lighting

Goblinkiller

PiffinOut

MIMedGrower

Keymaker

Homesteader

Homesteader

Homesteader

iled – iled

LED Drivers & Light Module Manufacturers | ERG Lighting

Moshmen

Moshmen

Rootbound

lvstealth

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