Leaf tips narrowed and turned down

[Aqua Man]

Ok then as AM stated your not getting to much run off the plant is holding onto the fluid trapped around the roots still over watered in a way .

Watered to often and not enough to saturate the media. Wet and dry spots creating high nutrient spots.

OP overwatering is caused by water to often without letting the media dry. Not watering to much at one time.

 

[BurnzYzBudZz]

Beginning signs of nitrogen tox. All great info but didn’t see anything about cutting back on the N or nutrients overall. Good luck and happy grows.
Burnz

 

[Sh311Sh0ck3d]

Ok then as AM stated your not getting to much run off the plant is holding onto the fluid trapped around the roots still over watered in a way .

You know you might be on to something here. They are all bubble gum, from the same pack of seeds. I cracked them last October, grew out 11, ditched the males and ended up with 5 really strong females. I kept those around until I ran out of space. I took about a dozen clones from each of them, ended up with 70, and ditched those Mothers as I really had nowhere for them and they wouldn't fit in the flower room, would have messed everything else up and I didn't really need them, they served their purpose. A couple of grows later and I was really struggling with heat which was my main motivation for upgrading the lights. I have a really good extraction system but I have to be careful what I do here so I rely on passive air intake which is why I was having heat problems.
There were a couple of different phenotypes and I think someone who knew what they where looking at would probably notice that in this grow, although it would be unfair to expect anyone to really spot that from the photos I posted. Now I've mentioned it I am sure you guys will see the half dozen odd balls in the mix.
Anyway. I grew those clones in rockwool and what you guys are saying makes a lot of sense. These plants are both over watered and under watered at the same time. This is why I haven't seen this exact problem before now.
I think the rockwool is soaking and so is the original soil those clones were first transplanted with from the 1/4 litre pots into their new homes, the 5 litre pots. The new soil is dry and the old soil is wet. Who knew!
Well done guys, I believe we got there. Even though its contradictory, it makes sence.
Thank you all who responded, all information posted here has been useful and may have saved 36 abused bubble gum clones. Happy days.
I shall let All the soil and rockwool dry out for a few days and then the next watering will be nothing but water with the correct ph of 6.2, double checked twice and I shall find a contianer that individual pots can be set into containing a half litre of plain water.
I hope to see some changes fairly quickly. I just started week 3 of flower and its probably not the best time to be messing about but if I ignore this problem and don't address it, anything I spent on new lights will be wasted.
Thanks again guys, I shall update here when Ive seen any signs of improvement, or not.

 

[Sh311Sh0ck3d]

Beginning signs of nitrogen tox. All great info but didn’t see anything about cutting back on the N or nutrients overall. Good luck and happy grows.
Burnz

I didn't see this post from you. It was very late and there were a few others posting and I was struggling to keep up. Thank you for responding. Those pictures look exactly like what I see with my plants. This is a great help, thank you again. I really appreciate all the input this thread has received. I believe my plants are being killed with kindness lol so to speak. I think all of you are on to something and I need to back of and let things dry out and then being again with some clean water to moisturizer the soil properly and then keep a tighter control of the amount of Biobizz Grow I use. I know that stuff is not consistent because of the recent issues I have experienced with dramatically reduced ph caused by the Grow. The last bottle I used didn't cause this problem with the ph.
Can't thank you all enough.

 

[Sh311Sh0ck3d]

Watered to often and not enough to saturate the media. Wet and dry spots creating high nutrient spots.

OP overwatering is caused by water to often without letting the media dry. Not watering to much at one time.

Thank you for your input here, you guys have been really helpful. There are a few things I can change right away that may help solve my problems. I am going to rise the LEDs to about 50 cm above the plants but I am also going to turn them up to 100%. If that generates a little more heat it may help evaporate any water stuck around the base of the stems and it may help the plants use up the extra nitrogen I've added. The conditions in there are pretty good and stable so I think I have a little room to adjust the amount of water I can add. I didn't really consider overdosing on ferts, especially nitrogen was the issue as that usually results in burn, which I am also guilty of but thats pretty easy to identify. This "claw" leaf is a new one to me but when you see those photos that were posted here its obviously what's going on, as well as the other issues you guys have mentioned.
I think all I do have right is the PH! LOL!

 

[Beachwalker]

I have most of them stood in those trays. If I made them up a half litre each and watered from the bottom would that be more effective? I have been keeping a tight control on the humidity but I have a little room to move.
Thanks for the quick response.

Just to clarify; your watering them from the top right?

 

[Sh311Sh0ck3d]

Just to clarify; your watering them from the top right?

Yeah. Until now. You can even see the divit in the soil around the stem of the plants were the water is settling in the center around the stem before sinking into to soil and around the edge of the soul is very dry. The guys in this thread nailed it. I am over watering and probably over feeding and at the same time the soil isnt getting enough moisture. I can see the soil in the center is still damp from last watering. The contradictory situation is bizzar but seeing the condition of the leaves , wet around stem yet lightweight pots points to the problem.

 

[Sh311Sh0ck3d]

Update: Thanks to all here certain disaster has been averted and I have addressed my over watering and over feedin, combined with not providing the plants with enough moisture, by not watering them at all for 2 days and then watering each plant with 4 times the usual amount of water at a ph of 6.2. Each pot now has some weight in it as each pot is holding a litre of water it wasn't holding before. I won't water them or feed them again until Tuesday. Next time I water/feed them I shall do it from the bottom of the pots.
I was reading up on " the claw" as its more commonly know and I was take to a thread similar to this one over on 420 magazine. I don't know those is it, its from 2015, worth the time it took to read and its quite funny, here's a link:

The Claw - Nitrogen toxicity in 3rd week of flowering

Greetings to all, It is my third week of flowering and I noticed a few days ago I have Clawing on 5 or so of my fan leaves, and very slight tip burn less than 1/16 of an inch on the very end tips only. I flushed the soil with plain, Ph'd water for the past two days. I plan to use nutrient...

www.420magazine.com

 

[Sh311Sh0ck3d]

Update: I believe the problem waa identified and resolved. Wasn't easy, watering 36 individual 5.5 litre pots from the bottom but I did it, stuck at it and its paying off.

 

[Beachwalker]

If you water from the bottom of the pots how do flush out the accumulated salts?

 

[Sh311Sh0ck3d]

If you water from the bottom of the pots how do flush out the accumulated salts?

Well, good question. I guess now that my initial problem is resolved I could start to flush them from above in their last week.
Tomorrow is the end of week six in flower and the start of week 7 so I should have a little bit of time to give them a good drink of just clean ph corrected H20. They are clones but there's a few different phenotypes and these differences are really starting to show in the final stages. Might be difficult to tell from the photos I've poated but some of these girls look like they are just about cooked with a good 85 to 90 % coverage of orange hairs from white. The trikes are already changing from clear to milky white but some are still 80 to 90% still white hairs and the trikes are clear. Plenty of them, the coverage is very good but you can see they are a week of so from finished. There's worse problems to have for sure.
You know, although you probably don't but you will in a minute, these clones began in a inch .5 x inch.5 rockwool cube. By kinda accident they got transplanted into 1/4 litre pots, just as a stop gap because I had to get them out of the system I use to grow roots on the cuttings but I couldn't get enough worm castings to transplant them into the 5.5 litre pots they are in now. Anyway, they were only in the 5.5 litre pots about a week before being switched over to 12/12.
So to date they are only in these pots about 7 weeks. That's not to say there isn't any build up in the soil but due to the short period of time they are in those pots with 5 1/4 litres of fresh soil the build up might not be quite as bad as it might be had those clones been in the same pots and soil their whole life cycle.
At least if I have to flush clean water through each pot from above it will not be as time consuming as watering each one from the bottom.
I will be keeping a close eye on them and will probably have to begin flushing some of them sooner than others. Its a pain having to mix up different solutions for different plants. Its easy to lose track of where you are at, can happen when they are all getting them same solution.

 

[4plant]

I thought the tips dropping are an indication of calcium imbalance, switching the lights to led might have caused a need for more cal- mag.

 

[Sh311Sh0ck3d]

I thought the tips dropping are an indication of calcium imbalance, switching the lights to led might have caused a need for more cal- mag.

Maybe an or, also but I had set up an rather unique problem for myself from the beginning. I planned to pot up the rooted clones in 5.5 litre pots but the shop didn't have my 40 litres of worm castings so I had to grab 5 litres and I couldn't allow this set back to set everything else back so I grabbed 40 1/4 litre pots and cracked on. I was watering these re-potted clones in a tray and the 40 of them were over growing the space they were in and the flower room was clear and I had the 40 litres of worm castings. I usually put about about 3 litres or so of soil ( Biobizz All mix) into the 5.5 litre pot and then a good handful of worm castings. I put the rooted clone in there and throw another good handful of worm castings in around the roots and then just top up the pot with about a litre of soil.
Anyway, I went to the store for the soil, All mix and they didn't have it! So I grabbed the stores own " All mix" and noticed how dry it was when I lifted the bags. Normally Biobizz All mix is just right straight out of the bag. I wasn't really thinking ahead and just got on with it. Ive 40 over grown clones to re-pot and move into a flower room asap and thats exactly what I did. But the difference between the soil the plants were in and the new soil was like night and day. I potted up as usual and watered the plants from the bottom for the first week or two. My temps were up through the roof, in the 40's with the door open so it didn't really matter how much water I was giving the plants, most of it evaporated before the plants could drink it. I was running 3 x 600 hps in an 8x9x12 room. I have get extraction system but not so great passive air intake so I was struggling and all I could do was leave the door open.
I had to address the heat so I picked up a couple of Lumatek Zeus 600 watt pro LED's which immediately sorted my heat issues but just about 3 or 4 days in, still watering 250 mil a day, I noticed what is more commonly known and I now know to be "the claw". The original soil in the quarter liter pot was holding all the moisture while the new soil was still bone dry. I was drowning the plants but at the same time the roots couldn't grow into the bone dry soil around the wet ball they were in. Very unusual and unnatural state for the plants to be in. Anyway I spent a couple of weeks watering each plant by setting it into a half litre of solution in a contianer just big enough for the pot to fit in and allowed all the soil to get wet while allowing the soaked core to dry out. Painstakingly slow but if you taje a look at the latest photos Ive posted things are looking pretty good.

 

[Sh311Sh0ck3d]

I thought the tips dropping are an indication of calcium imbalance, switching the lights to led might have caused a need for more cal- mag.

Just to add, I can understand how you would come to that conclusion going by those last photos I have posted on this thread. I think what you are looking at is a plant that was suffering, close to death! They had started to yellow from over watering and I really only notice the claw 3 weeks into flower. We are now starting week seven tomorrow.
I use Epsom salts a couple of times throughout the plants lifecycle. Usually that first re-pot and then again just before I switch over to 12/12.

 

[Sh311Sh0ck3d]

Update: A picture speaks a thousand words.