it would be really hard to beat HLG , Timber, or California lightworks , or if youre handy the DIY LED route is badass ! you can build some monster lights and tailor the spectrum for cheap ! there are also alot of people having success with some of the LED suppliers on Alibaba. me being one of them.. although my next purchase will be some HLG QB96 V2 Elites, theyre insane. these little bad asses can push 200 watts of the best flowering spectrum available on the market arguably... imagine 4 of them in a 4x4 . unrivaled im sure.

Luma series 4 Citizen COBs Luma Series 240 watts $179 free shipping, Hortibloom, I have nothing to do with them.

And definitely check out the strip light builds, also pretty dam cheap and way lighter vs cob fixtures, also a more even spread of light, no fans to fail, as low a profile as youll find and easy to build as well

And that hortibloom light is a great value but id imagine it would have to be hung pretty far up to cover a 4x4, and most lights built with active cooling dont have sinks big enough to cover the heat in the event of fan failure, personally i like passive cooled simplicity, but this game is all about how you want to do it, so take all these suggestions to note and the community here will not steer you wrong

Gweedo said:

also a more even spread of light,

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I think that's underappreciated. I think any time watts can be spread around the plant (different angles/coverage, fewer shadows), an efficiency is created (which you don't get putting that same number of watts directly above the plant). The more they can be spread out, or broken into smaller fixtures and placed at differing angles... I think that's low-hanging fruit.

I think a lot it has to do with distance. Putting all the watts on top (and especially into a single, compact fixture) means you have to keep the fixture higher. If a person has 400w on top: if they can split that into four 100w fixtures, and (for example) keep it 8" instead of 16" above the canopy, that's four times the amount of light reaching the plant. Split it up further: have four 80w fixtures on top, and put the remaining 80w around the side, and you can have that sidelighting extremely close (2"). Say: eight 8-10w lightbulbs, two in each corner.

It's a tradeoff. If you had a roomful of 10 plants, it would be a full-time job fine tuning the lighting around each plant. But, for the typical 2x4 or 4x4 tent, it's not bad.

People squeeze the utmost efficiency out of the lastest COB or driver. I think that stuff is miniscule compared to the gains from spreading light around the plant, more even coverage.

A few years ago SMD5630(?) corncob lightbulbs were very efficient. (They may still be.). But, you could get them in low wattage and with a platic shell over the LED tower. They came with bayonett mount, the socket for which is very small. I had the idea to insert a dozen of those into the canopy (like a scene from Clockwork Orange). It sounds nuts. But, when you think about the inverse square... That would be like 40 watt laying on the leaves, all around the plant, with just 1/2" to 2" distance. The way the light becomes 25% less each time you double the distance... that 40w would be *enormous* compared to delivering it from the top, in a typical "UFO" fixture (at that time). Enormous! Even if the UFO was 2" from the top of the plant, most of the light didn't reach plant material until 8-14" further down. That's *exponential* loss compared to laying light directly on the leaves (like a "light spa.").

I'm a big believer in that. Today you can get strip lighting that's encased in plastic. (IP67, whatever the rating is for that). Imagine having "light sticks" that you just push into the plant. (Make them double-sided, maybe triple sided). But, skewers that you push into the plant. Light it from every angle, from the inside out, and outside in. I bet you could flower a plant like that with just 12w/sq ft. Some amazingly small amount of power. Just because of how close the light is.

Gweedo said:

And definitely check out the strip light builds, also pretty dam cheap and way lighter vs cob fixtures, also a more even spread of light, no fans to fail, as low a profile as youll find and easy to build as well

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Which LED light bars do you suggest, seems like decent ones are hard to find. But meanwell drivers are not ;)

Samsung f series, or bridgelux , or pacific light concepts for a little more, but they wilk all grow some dank lol

Gweedo said:

Samsung f series, or bridgelux , or pacific light concepts for a little more, but they wilk all grow some dank lol

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PLC is always out of stock been waiting 2ish months, been following gene for a while, cool guy... but I will check f series and what version of the bridgelux (trying to fill a 4×4, full spectrum)

Samsung all day brother GG is on point, with the photoboosts l, price is just still too high, the 4 foot 100w samsung strips on 2 in heatsink with a paralell wired meanwell 480 48a 505 watts over that 4x4, build it now sell later and go photoboost lol

Ace9137 said:

First off, LED's are okay, they are nothing near what is claimed on most web sites. I bought Meizhi's and they lasted about a year and a half a piece, actually one still works and produces white lights and lacks intensity. My honest opinion,(based on three years of LED's only), would be to look at your planned grow style. Fluro's are nice, they do not really get canopy penetration, LEDs are great if you can get past price and the fact they are not as long lasting as claimed, Then there HID's, I like them personally, I still won't suggest them only because of heat. Heat is not an issue here in the northern US. I would suggest that before you jump on the LED bandwagon you consider a few factors, canopy penetration, nutrient consumption, and of course light quality. Most US made LED lamps are awesome, yet, price kills the chance of me ever buying from them. Even with my bias towards LEDs, I don't rule them out, I just would wait until the tech is better as well as the regulations on the claims of said lights.

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Look into purchasing leds overseas. Research research and research some more. Then before you purchase, research some more. If your gonna go led, lm301b diodes are amazing or the 561c diodes are also good. These are Samsung top of the line diodes as long as you get s bin or similar. I am very pleased with my leds. And if you insist on junk plug in plays by mars. The new ts1000 is far superior to their other lights. MIGRO on the tube just did a review on it and it’s not bad.

Just watched that video i still think mars is shit lol but im comparing to diy so apples and oranges there

m8ty said:

Hydro and LED are the fastest way for a noob to kill the plants just saying. Also it takes five grows till you finally get I right, if I was starting out I would stay away from hydro and LED, you're just gonna blow a bunch of money on expensive gear.

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That is completely wrong to state. You might steer people in the wrong direction. First time grow ,led and ,very light soil/soilless. (Drain to waste ) I am just about to harvest on Sunday.

Gweedo said:

Just watched that video i still think mars is shit lol but im comparing to diy so apples and oranges there

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It is

Im with that 100% as well a little research and note taking goes a long way ,should be doing that anyway lol, first time i went hydro and did great as well a bit more $$$ up front but again DIY is your best friend my first chemdog 91 in a 4x2.5x7 under a 250w diy cob fixture 10.5ozs and im totally self taught via the usual books and this website along with a few others, take notes and plan and youll get there for sure

G b said:

PLC is always out of stock been waiting 2ish months, been following gene for a while, cool guy... but I will check f series and what version of the bridgelux (trying to fill a 4×4, full spectrum)

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I was waiting too. I said screw it. The photo post strips are the 561’s with the reds. Idk if they are supplying the lm’s yet. I said screw it and went on Ali. And built my own. The plc lights are expensive it seems also.

Migrower said:

Look into purchasing leds overseas. Research research and research some more. Then before you purchase, research some more. If your gonna go led, lm301b diodes are amazing or the 561c diodes are also good. These are Samsung top of the line diodes as long as you get s bin or similar. I am very pleased with my leds. And if you insist on junk plug in plays by mars. The new ts1000 is far superior to their other lights. MIGRO on the tube just did a review on it and it’s not bad.

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I did research, not just company claims, honestly, it was a waste of time, the LED market is convoluted with half truths and innuendo that i won't bother until there are better standards and reasonable lifetime for said product.

Again if you diy with quality components led is dead reliable, cant speak for premade units with crap parts lol and for sure the plc strips are a bit high bit like all thos stuff it will come down in price quick as new stuff comes out

Ace9137 said:

I did research, not just company claims, honestly, it was a waste of time, the LED market is convoluted with half truths and innuendo that i won't bother until there are better standards and reasonable lifetime for said product.

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I can understand where you are coming from. It gets frustrating at times. I purchased a hipargero 800. Like 200 from the wall. For my first light. A plug n play after a lot of research. Best bang for my buck kinda thing. First light not wanting to blow hundreds. Then I really dug deep and found out the way to go is diy for sure. Not only do you get a quality light if you use quality components. You learn a shit ton along the way. Just a thought anyone seen the new chilled logic light by growmau5. He’s a pretty smart cookie himself.

Learned at least half of what i know from his vids and posts here and there, and honestly we alk know this now but that light is the kast thing in the room to skimp on other than genetics it dictates pretty much everything

Migrower said:

I can understand where you are coming from. It gets frustrating at times. I purchased a hipargero 800. Like 200 from the wall. For my first light. A plug n play after a lot of research. Best bang for my buck kinda thing. First light not wanting to blow hundreds. Then I really dug deep and found out the way to go is diy for sure. Not only do you get a quality light if you use quality components. You learn a shit ton along the way. Just a thought anyone seen the new chilled logic light by growmau5. He’s a pretty smart cookie himself.

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Ace9137 said:

I did research, not just company claims, honestly, it was a waste of time, the LED market is convoluted with half truths and innuendo that i won't bother until there are better standards and reasonable lifetime for said product.

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And you are absolutely right I spoke with about 15 to 20 different representatives from Ali.About half of those lied to me half of them gave me fake UL and etl numbers.Someone lied about the drivers they used and then others lied about other companies so yes there is a lot that goes into it if you would like any help from me I did a damn lot of research and spoke to a hell a lot of people I wouldn’t buy from eco-speed or na lite. I wouldn’t buy the sun God to or the Athena which is pretty much the spider X plus by fluence. To tell you the truth I could not find any linear set ups that I would purchase that is why for the time being I just purchased The boards I am also waiting for a quality linear light to purchase from overseas instead of spending 2K on one from America. In fact on Amazon they are selling the na light under a different name. So probably just somebody purchasing them up charging a couple hundred bucks and letting them go