LED Questions

[Zorkmid]

Hello all,
I am not currently a grower, although I'd like to be eventually. I'm in a planning stage at best. I have been reading about different lights and when I came across LED's it left me with a few questions. I know that you can get LED light strips that put out specific wavelengths 6500K or 2700k for example. But isn't there a requirement for lumins or light penetration as well? I mean does anyone know if a 5050 SMD Waterproof LED Strip light or sets of them(at required wavelength) would be possible for growing or are we all currently stuck with having to use LED boards? I suppose in essence what I am asking is what do you need out of an LED besides wavelength?
(I'm sure people will want to post answers related to other light types, but this is an led specific question.)
Thank you all for your infinite Wisdom! ;)

 

[socalpunx]

Im sorry but LED is crap everything you read is a marketing gimmick there is a reason everyone and the best still use HID,now plasma is something I wanna check-out

 

[Bannacis]

Not all LED is crap, And you can't say everyone and the best use HID, BECAUSE you don't know everyone..............
There are some out there that do very well. but the down side is cost.
The wavelength (spectrum) is important for sure, but the power of the led chip is also key.
2 or 3 watt diodes are what you need, and with a panel of a hundred led's you get 200 -300 watts of light.
The Rev (Skunk magazine cultivating editor) use's a brand called Stealthy Samaritan leds. He gives testimony on this.
He use's them in small grow tents for person stash and TLO style growing.
On a larger scale supplement lighting is prolly best, but at the cost why not just use HID or induction is another way.

I've use led's for starts and clones, they work great, no heat, low electric use low cost, but if you want big buds you gotta go big light.
And for plasma, that looks promising, but cost is an issue there too... but with technical advances it should soon become less costly...someday!!!

 

[socalpunx]

led does put out heat,ok it wouldnt be bad for clones or really small veg plants but I wouldnt recommend flowering under them though I just never been impressed,Bannacis I know that I dont know every grower out there But from what i do know its not the best choice for flowering.Does anyone know of any cup winners grown under LED?really I am curious....anyone

 

[Bannacis]

Oh excuse me sorry I meant Low heat...geesh chill... Really, So only cup winners grow good pot....hmmm
And man cant you read...Do you know who the Rev is? grower/breeder of KOS genetics. I trust his word...
And also not everybody is on this forum. so that's a moot question. plus I never stated it was the best choice.
Zorkmid asked a question, and I answered him honestly... I didn't attack you I just said that you cannot speak for everyone.

Don't make this thread personal please

 

[tags420]

Spend the money and buy or build a quality led unit that is enough for your space and you will be more than happy. But if you are looking into LED's for a cheap alternative your out of luck. It's not magic, it still takes 600w+/- of the best led's($$$) to compete with 1000w hps.

Watt for watt led's will out perform hps all day. But the price tag to do it is just not worth it to most. DIY can make it more feasible, but still pricey. But if you can get over the upfront cost, you will realize that you will save the difference with in the first 1-2 years, and still be making what ever your used to off you crop the whole time. 155+lm/w led are here now and will keep raising the bar over time.

 

[Bannacis]

cup winners:
http://www.thcbiz.com/news/company-...est-meds-canna-cup-for-medical-marijuana.html

also Rocky Mountain High dispensary in Denver, CO :

 

[chazbolin]

I think it's great how dispensary's are pushing the boundaries on commercial scale energy efficient lighting systems. At 3:00 into the video we hear the LED finish is 1.5 weeks quicker with 20% greater yields which is extraordinary. With height also being a factor in this video I thought the LED's were perfectly suited for the task.

Some of the things I would have liked to hear them discuss would have been:
What is the initial cost on a 4 x 4 system?
Was there a reduction in thermal contribution?
Are the ballasts mounted remotely?
Can the ballasts run on 240 v circuits?
What is the total lighting power consumption for a 4 x 4 area?
What was the finished quality like?

In an ongoing effort to reduce power consumption, increase quality/yields I would love to see these guys do a run with a 420-Pontoon combo and get to see the results in a followup video. This particular garden is a day 26 flower update where 10,000 watts of HID was replaced with 4,600 watts of EFDL/SSL and temps were dropped by 2/3 of what he had with HID .

If you care to see the entire gallery it can be seen @ https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.360840187351905.1073741831.262974713805120&type=1

 

[Bannacis]

I agree and yes I would of liked to know the same of the things you mentioned.
One of the things I like about them, is you customize your spectrum to whatever you want and that they have a better coverage.
as to hid's when you get to the edge of you reflector your light diminishes quite a bit. and leds' it stays constant.

 

[socalpunx]

whoa Im sorry I did not mean to come off like that at all,Nothing personal,Bannacis I did not mean anything by it,I like your input on it,I dont wanna start trouble with anyone,I just thought maybe I had something to offer on this subject Im not a L.e.d. user just going by what I have seen

 

[Bannacis]

No problem socal, I'm just on here to offer my opinion as everybody else. I understand, We all got a lot to learn.
And remember what you have seen is only a fraction of what's out there.
I think if you have a way of using HPS, MH and LED's together in a grow, that you would have a good spectrum coverage.

 

[chazbolin]

Some of the best gardens I've seen run a MH with HPS @ flower. The reason being the plants get the UV-B regions of MH at flower which increases trichome, resin and oil production. Not sure why you'd want an LED on top of the MH/HPS combo if you're already broad spectrum unless the diodes were just catching Far Red regions that the HPS misses. Using diodes to supplement PAR levels that the main lamp misses, or doesn't have enough energy in those regions, is what I've also seen done successfully when using a single induction lamp that emits a broad enough spectrum that it can be used alone for veg thru flowering.

 

[soserthc1]

Not all LED is crap, And you can't say everyone and the best use HID, BECAUSE you don't know everyone..............
There are some out there that do very well. but the down side is cost.
The wavelength (spectrum) is important for sure, but the power of the led chip is also key.
2 or 3 watt diodes are what you need, and with a panel of a hundred led's you get 200 -300 watts of light.
The Rev (Skunk magazine cultivating editor) use's a brand called Stealthy Samaritan leds. He gives testimony on this.
He use's them in small grow tents for person stash and TLO style growing.
On a larger scale supplement lighting is prolly best, but at the cost why not just use HID or induction is another way.

I've use led's for starts and clones, they work great, no heat, low electric use low cost, but if you want big buds you gotta go big light.
And for plasma, that looks promising, but cost is an issue there too... but with technical advances it should soon become less costly...someday!!!

While I find your statement to be true , The rev does use Led's lights but not exclusively mostly in breeding tents during hot months as I have read way to many shunk mag articles.

I am not saying your incorrect about Led lighting as I really have never grown just with just Led (i use led as supplemental and really only notice a difference for picture quality.

But with that being said there has to be a reason why the large majority of breeders / growers / large scale cultivators do not, if they were as good as hid - hps - mh the expense of them would easily be made up in the cost of electric ..... jmho....

 

[Bannacis]

Your right soserthc1, but the thing is Led's do have a place. as for the hot season, and the Rev also stated that TLO loves the LED's
I would say the main reason that the majority don't use led is the cost, plus the stigma that its not as good as hid. and in most cases its not yet.only in the saving money over the long haul is it an asset. peeps are slow to except change, especially when hid work so well. and led's will have to really step it up to prove they are contenders.
And if you look it up there are many (large scale growers) out there using led panels. not just for pot but food crops too.
I'm still a hid user, for flower. I use leds for veg, but they are low wattage. I just can't afford the high wattage leds.

 

[chazbolin]

I think lighting mfg's need to get behind a standardized way of measuring light so that it competes with HID in plant net action absorption spectra regions. That way the end user could tell at a glance how much energy the light is emitting in the UV-B, Coratenoid and R-FR regions that the grower has found to be most beneficial for that strain. Sort of like N-P-K but in watts per region. As it is now a large group of gardeners will buy based on lumen output and how many watts (more is better) the light draws. :rolleyes:

 

[Bannacis]

That will never happen...they got their heads up their ass.

 

[3oShivaRider]

If you can foot the bill for a high end, branded, reputed quality LED, you should probably get it and reap the benefits in reduced electricity bills. However, I personally feel it's only good as a supplemental light or as a light for starting clones or seedlings. Not so much for flowering...

 

[chazbolin]

Actually it is happening and it's the LED guys who are pushing it since they can readily add diodes/spectrum's that can meet plant net action absorption spectra. The problem the LED mfg will face is blending enough of these wavelengths with enough intensity to cover large enough areas to make people see the benefits over HID and switch over to them.

This article was written by Angela Lundmark who owns arguably one of the best LED grow light manufacturers out there.

http://gardenandgreenhouse.net/inde...ficiency&catid=138:july-august-2013&Itemid=18

You can check her site and notable clients list @

 

[Reebs]

oh man, the LED light talk. :p use what works for yall individually!

 

[tags420]

Apache's new AT660 is going to blow people minds. Finally a light that is putting out equal and superior par readings all over the canopy to a 1000w hps.
If you really want to know about led...RIU is the best forum for them and you will get way better info from people who actually use them...and all different brands.

Or just step up and don't cut corners and buy a good quality unit from a good American company(only about 4-5 of them) and you will see how much better led's are. But remember I never said they were cheaper upfront, you pay for what you get, specially with led's.