Led To Replace 400w Hps In Parabola?

[Horto]

LED to Replace 400W HPS in Parabola?
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Current System:
400 watt Philips "Master Son-T Pia Plus" under 88 cm wide Parabola, length 60 cm.
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This floods a 90 cm x 85 cm tray with light.
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This is not a brag, I just want to make sure any replacement would match this performance.
I'm happy to keep HPS if a LED replacement could not meet cultural practice.
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Cultural Practice:
4 plants at 400 x 300 cm spacing in 90 x 85 cm tray.
The plants mature at 60cm height with heads across the tray space.
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The point of difference with a mathematically accurate parabola is the efficiency of focused light across the design area and maturity of lower flowers. There is dappled light on the canopy floor and no hard shadows.
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Parabolic Calculator:
For those interested there is a free Parabola Calculator, available online for download.
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If you are serious about mathematical accuracy use the generated numbers to manually measure, mark out and draw your parabola to scale. The more segments you generate and mark out the better.
The pictures of parabola generated by this calculator are not mathematically accurate; this has nothing to do with image type or printing scale. The angles are not the same as generated numbers.
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It is unlikely I would get back for discussion!!
You are on your own from here, hope this gives me a few credits for my LED questions.
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My questions.
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1/ LED LIGHT REPLACEMENT: Is it possible to buy a commercial LED system to flood 90 x 85 cm Tray through 60 cm of plant growth.
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Note: The room is 120 cm x 120 cm for air circulation but actual grow area is 90 x 85 cm.
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What would you use to guarantee or exceed the current function of 400 HPS under parabola?
There is an existing 4 inch exhaust vent that could be repurposed for LED ventilation?
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2/ DIY COBS: Could the above requirement be met with DIY COBS.
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I am also very interested to know if 12 or 24 volt DC LED systems are exactly the same efficiency or differ from other common voltages?
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I have no practical experience with modern COBS but I have got experience in electronic assembly.
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3/ Cooling.
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It seems that many attach a PC Heat sink and fan to each COB?
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Is it possible to put COBS in a row and mount the heat sinks inside a ventilation pipe? Would you need a side mount heat sink for COBS?
Without seeing the arrangement of COBS being used here, I’m just throwing out questions.
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Noted the heat sink and driver can be in a separate place from LED? Are there any restrictions such as cable length?
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My interest in DIY would be to use the most efficient products available through EBay, so if anybody can help with a shopping list I would be very grateful.

Are there any Commercial versions on eBay, which could meet requirement?
Leaving the option of Commercial or DIY open at this stage.


Horto

 

[Horto]

Error Correction: "4 plants at 40 x 30 cm spacing"

 

[Homesteader]

Many threads on here that will help in your quest from @REALSTYLES, @sixstring @HughJassBud on DIY builds. If you are looking for a cookie cutter DIY build maybe this will help. I believe you would need a few however just a suggestion/link.

 

[Homesteader]

 

[Horto]

I have very limited online access to search out relevant threads, was hoping to get some replies on this thread to get started. Thank you for link.

 

[Horto]

Youtube is in the limited resource category, unfortunately I have not got the connection or bandwidth here. :( I am very skilled at electronic design and assembly, the product choice is where I'm seeking the forums experience

 

[Horto]

Asking to see what can be done with up-to 300watts in LED system, to replace 400 HPS as above!

I have read quite a few pages on this forum, and agree with a poster on this forum running the driver/LED below maximum capacity to increase reliability. Hence my idea of mounting inline COB heat sinks inside vent pipe has the potential to be more efficient in terms of power, whilst maintaining reliability through a single inline fan.

My engineering skills are good, if you have the knowledge to help with suitable COB and drivers I will be happy to contribute with some design work to test this!

 

[Horto]

A Ready built system seems to be in the right ball park


Do you save much buying the suitable COB and drivers, I like the idea of making it myself to save a few dollars

 

[Horto]

The post in "How Many Cobs For A 4x4 Tray ?" by @sixstring
https://server6.kproxy.com/servlet/...-cobs-for-a-4x4-tray-tent.83978/#post-1772445
Re: 15 cxb @ 1050ma would be around 525w but you can use just 3 drivers in this setup.mw 185-1050.

10 CXB3590 @ 1050ma = 350 watt.

Dimming is not needed from a growing standpoint, so unless it is need to match drivers and LED's I would prefer to keep it simple.

Are there any other efficient combinations between 300-350 watts to checkout?


Moo

 

[Toaster79]

You could use a single HLG-320 driver for 300W application. There are also other COBs on the market you might wanna check, like Citizen, Bridgelux ... that are on paar with cree for a bargain price. I'd suggest having a look at Citizen 18-18 series.

Regarding remote mounting your driver/s, keep your DC side of the wiring as short as possible and use quality wiring of adequate gauge. You don't want any losses between the driver and COBs.

For mounting your COBs use holders or anything that is gonna keep them put preferably something with screws. Do NOT use those sticky pads. Use high quality thermal compound Like Arctic Silver 5 or better. Do not use anything silicone based.

 

[Horto]

You could use a single HLG-320 driver for 300W application.

Thanks, I had missed a forum post quoting HLG-320.

So far, the drivers options of 300-350 Watts:

HLG-185H-C1050B = 350 watt (10 CXB3590 COB @ 1050ma)
or,
HLG-320H-C1400B = 300 watt (6 CXB3590 COB @ 1400ma)

How do these 2 options compare in efficiency?
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COB Selection:

I'd suggest having a look at Citizen 18-18 series.

I cannot purchase through US.

This eBay Store delivers worldwide. (The link below is a Store Search for Citizen)

Is there a particular Citizen COB in this store you could suggest looking at?

 

[AvidLerner]

Timber has a 300w kit here starting at $529-> peace
Avid

 

[bobby g]

sounds like the cornerstone of your technique is even light dispersion and LED arrays excel in this area

 

[Horto]

sounds like the cornerstone of your technique is even light dispersion and LED arrays excel in this area

Even light dispersion is the function of a Parabola, but that is not the whole story.

For the sake of anyone following, and ending up disappointed. I will include some specifics.

The Parabola is 88 cm wide, and 35 cm deep. 60 cm in length.
The bulb Focal Length is 12.9 cm

Foliage that enters the Parabola at *22.1 cm from bulb will (*begin to bleach).

The physical size of this reflector is not indicative of parabolic design.

Actual Mathematical Size
62 cm wide x 18.6 cm deep
Focal Length = 12.9 cm
Linear Diam = 74.6 cm
Linear Diameter is 74.6 / 62 (width) = 1.2 (Focal Intensity).
The above parameters are exact.

The Parabola continues straight for the last 13 cm each side, making up the total width of 88cm.
This keeps the bulb Focal Length tighter, while extending the Linear Diam to width ratio giving an overall Focal Intensity of about 1.3.
Even if you continue on a hypothetical parabolic trajectory there is little difference and diminished returns past this point, I prefer to keep it open with more air but you could add walls for a grow tunnel with enough ventilation.

On the two ends of the parabola, the edge is curved in for the last 15 cm. (Just improves the design a little further at ends) You could vent the parabola from one end, and mount an angled flat reflective plate the other end leaving an air gap. This plate also helps to shield your eyes.

I also have a dimpled reflective strip exactly the same width as bulb sitting 3 cm behind it.
The result is a slight amplification at 20 cm either side of centre, the light directly behind bulb is caught and diminished. (You can create sharp drop-offs at boundaries, more usable light)


Further
You could reduce the "Actual Mathematical Size" to change the bulb "Focal Length" depending on the required size, but a small version could be no better or worse then commercial reflectors.

Where a small commercial reflector might be like a bucket of water directed at the plant, a full size parabola can be more like rain falling straight down across the area.

The dimpled reflective strip reduces lost light from the Parabola Focal length at centre but also increases intensity. Increasing the width of this reflective strip and shifting further behind the bulb or not using it at all, could allow foliage to be closer without bleaching. (Depends on what you wish to achieve)

The Bulb is in a vented cool tube because we have very high ambient temperatures; the glass tube introduces a loss in light and blocks UV. The vented cool tube is not recommended or necessary for most growers’ climate.

This should give you a starting point for 400w HPS parabola.


Another parabola, built on exactly the same mathematical design has 1 cm removed from each side.

A 60cm wide parabola, with a Hygrow 130watt Spectrum lamp at 6400K (the design has a few tweaks).
This is used for seeds or cuttings but able to grow 4 vegetative plants up to a maximum of 50 cm.

 

[Horto]

Timber has a 300w kit here starting at $529-> peace
Avid

Thank you for the link, I am interested in evaluating the options and hopefully contribute some ideas for DIY design. I like the idea of more COB to improve color mixing.

So far, the drivers options of 300-350 Watts:

HLG-185H-C1050B = 350 watt (10 CXB3590 COB @ 1050ma)
or,
HLG-320H-C1400B = 300 watt (6 CXB3590 COB @ 1400ma)
or,
HLG-320H-C2100B = 300 watt (4 CXB3590 COB @ 2100ma)

The HLG-185H-C1050B with 5 CXB3590 seem to be a good combination for electrical energy efficiency.
The $5o cost per COB is a pretty big factor if you wanted to recoup investment but I am interested to hear what you think from the angle of energy efficiency using the HLG-185H-C1050B and 10 COB over the Tray?

 

[Horto]

I'd suggest having a look at Citizen 18-18 series.

Re: Citizen (2 x CLU048-1212C4)

Quote: In terms of COB front, I recently learned about a better alternative to Cree. I don't need a newer grow light for me, but if you are interested in DIY route, I would definitely look into Citizen CitiLED COB Series Version 5. There are several sizes, but something around CLU048-1212C4 seems to be the sweet spot in terms of price and efficiency ($12.55 from CDI). This is a smaller COB, so you'll need 2 of CLU048-1212C4 to replace 1x CXB3590. At the moderate driving current, the efficiency is very close to CXB3590. Maybe you can drive it at 1050mA (36.8W), which gives 169lm/W @ case temperature (Tc) of 50C, or better yet at 700mA (23.7W), which gives 179lm/W (similar to CXB3590 @ 50W).

Source: http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=591082&postcount=64

 

[Toaster79]

Re: Citizen (2 x CLU048-1212C4)

Quote: In terms of COB front, I recently learned about a better alternative to Cree. I don't need a newer grow light for me, but if you are interested in DIY route, I would definitely look into Citizen CitiLED COB Series Version 5. There are several sizes, but something around CLU048-1212C4 seems to be the sweet spot in terms of price and efficiency ($12.55 from CDI). This is a smaller COB, so you'll need 2 of CLU048-1212C4 to replace 1x CXB3590. At the moderate driving current, the efficiency is very close to CXB3590. Maybe you can drive it at 1050mA (36.8W), which gives 169lm/W @ case temperature (Tc) of 50C, or better yet at 700mA (23.7W), which gives 179lm/W (similar to CXB3590 @ 50W).

Source: http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=591082&postcount=64

Single 1818 is gonna replace 3590, you could also take 1824 to get even higher efficiency

 

[Horto]

1824

Not finding anything with 1824?

 

[Toaster79]

Not finding anything with 1824?

My bad!

CLU058-1825 is what I ment, not 1824

 

[Horto]

My bad!

CLU058-1825 is what I ment, not 1824

HLG-120H-C1400 = 300 watt (4 CLU058 1825 @ 1400ma)
@5000K 70CRI:
>160 lm/W @140W
>170 lm/W @ 85W
>190 lm/W @ 50W
If these figures are correct, have we got comparable info for CXB3590?

I have no experience regarding the penetration of LED lights into the canopy and gain from overlap.
Welcome any thoughts on Driver choice for best Electrical watts to PAR efficiency.