Lighting opinions wanted

[trichburner]

Buying indoor equipment soon . Narrowed down my choices to either running two 1000's (w/ switchable ballast) in a 4' x 6' area or four 400W HPS (CMH bulbs) in a 4'x4' area . I am looking for the best performance at a reasonable price in both start up costs and longterm running costs .

I will be purchasing bulbs based on their spectragraph , so I know I'll be taking a hit in the wallet here should I choose to go with the 1000's . But , Bulb price for the 1000's will be offset with the first half of the grow using MH and second half using HPS . Also light cycle will not be more than 15hrs light in veg for the indicas and 13.5 for sativas . The CMH will have same light cycle but the same bulbs will be used for both veg and flower .

I will be growing mostly sativa dominate hybrids and pure sativas . Light intensity and penetration is important . I want to keep light intensity above 75 watts per square foot .

I'm leaning towards the 400w HPS's due to cheaper start up price (buying one complete 400w ballast and three ballast kits compared to buying two 1000W switchables at retail price) , operating costs (electricity/bulb replacement costs) , and better light spectrum of the CMH . The payoff with the 1000's will be in yield which can't be overlooked . Much of what I will be growing indoors has a flowering time of 14+ weeks . Looking at long times between harvest .

But alas , I want a second opinion from all the indoor gurus before I make a final decision .

 

[ProGroWannabe]

Well let me first say I haven't ran them, but have read about CMH's until my eyes almost bled. I'd love to see ya run em and do a grow log with em. FWIW, I think the better spectrum of the CMH bulbs will help keep those sats shorter.

Also, something else I'd consider if it were me making the choice, is more lights of lower wattage give you a much better spread of light than one stronger source. I found in my own experiments with vertical HPS bulbs that the light that overlaps from two adjacent bulbs really benefits the plants that receive it....aka increased yield at every overlapping point.

So in short, I'd go with the 400's and CMH bulbs.....juss my opinion though.

 

[Zoolander]

Why not use 600's ?

 

[Texas Kid]

600's are the ticket and if your looking for a specific color spectrum/kelvin rated bulbs there are other options.



Check these cats out, they are the top of the heap, a little pricey but nice. The have an adjustable ballast that is kind of cool pluss the full on full on spinners. I would look real hard at the 3 arm spinner specifically for 4x4 spaces..Digi-Max is the shit

Spinner...star mixers in my future..

Tex

 

[julsbagell]

3 600s are the same lumens as 2 1000s and cheaper to run.

 

[Texas Kid]

3 600s are the same lumens as 2 1000s and cheaper to run.

That's just not correct...unless ya got some trick math goin there..

Hortilux 600 = 88,000 lumens x 3 = 264,000
Hortilux 1000 = 145,000 lumens x 2 = 290,000 lumens

And you can run the 1000's for half that of the 600's on 220v..

600's are the most efficient, watt output per lumen output, that's it, I think your confused on the other points.

Tex

 

[leadplant]

tex said: "...And you can run the 1000's for half that of the 600's on 220v.."

I dont get it.
220v is not cheaper to run than 110v.
I've heard 220 is slightly more efficient
but thats it.

 

[Texas Kid]

Half the amp load with 220v over 110v, nothing to do with effiency at all..

Tex

 

[leadplant]

ok I agree that 220v allows for less amperage which helps to not max out the service panel limit.

 

[trichburner]

600's are the ticket and if your looking for a specific color spectrum/kelvin rated bulbs there are other options.



Check these cats out, they are the top of the heap, a little pricey but nice. The have an adjustable ballast that is kind of cool pluss the full on full on spinners. I would look real hard at the 3 arm spinner specifically for 4x4 spaces..Digi-Max is the shit

Spinner...star mixers in my future..

Tex

Thanks for that link , but damn , I can see the $$$$$$ adding up . It's scary that there catalog doesn't even list prices . I checked on 600's a long time ago but wasn't impressed with the costs and limited options . Plus the main selling point on 600's is lumens ; I care more about PAR . Lifelighttec definately looks worth considering . Do you know of any online retail sites with their bulb prices ?

 

[Texas Kid]

You can call Dan direct at Lifelight and he will hook you up with info and prices, I ahve all their wholesale stuff here and it's not that bad but it is up there a bit...

I have a frind that has his lights setup where they arc and travel accross the room similar to the sun, it almost tracks it right below all day, it's cool as hell. This guy also has a badass hammered copper roof gazebo that is enclosed and has 6 panels on top with a high seam, two of the panels are glass and has a sensor so that those two panels track the sun all day fro east to west, thats crazy cool..

Tex

 

[trichburner]

Niiiiiiiiiice . Do his bulbs stay in the horizontal position(or vertical , whichever type he has) or do they angle any during the travel ? I've thought of something along the same train of thought , only using an extended light rail where the bulb starts from a few feet away and ends a few feet away on the other side of the grow area . Now on a set up like that , I could see a real use for a spinner mounted to the light rail with different spectrum bulbs , hmmmmm :thinking .

 

[Texas Kid]

Star Mixer Spinner on a light rail, now your with me...

At the time I saw this guys setup we all worked in the material handling industry and had access to all kinds of cool grooved tracks, carrier rails, spray booth tracks you name it. So he mounted parbolic hoods with verticle bulbs on the track and used servo motors and cable pulls to move it accross the room. With the servo's a a simple clarstat dial control you can set the travel time pretty much where you want it and then hit a return switch and reverse.

Tex

 

[julsbagell]

sorry tex I still dont agree with that 145,000 at 12 inches most peeps dont put 1000s 12 inches at 18-24 inches the lumens are way less than 145,000. But 88,000 lumens at 12 inches wonder what they are at 8-9 inches because thats how close you could get them with 600s and I run my 600s off 220. I agree with the light mover though Its the only way I would run 1000s again.

 

[Texas Kid]

sorry tex I still dont agree with that 145,000 at 12 inches most peeps dont put 1000s 12 inches at 18-24 inches the lumens are way less than 145,000. But 88,000 lumens at 12 inches wonder what they are at 8-9 inches because thats how close you could get them with 600s and I run my 600s off 220. I agree with the light mover though Its the only way I would run 1000s again.

The law on inverse square applys to all wattages and color lamps so I treat that as a level playing field for all. If you want to start figuring lumen/lux/par at different distances and wattages I am sure there are millions of combinations that come out one way or the other.

I have my 1k's at less than 8" from the canopy right now and could probably go closer with a little more creative air intake and exhaust through the hoods. I run my Grozilla dual 1k hoods at about 12" from the canopy and then when i run the 400's in there instead of 2k I run that at about 8" off the canopy. So that's 1400w/184000lumens at 8" off the canopy, so when you apply the law inverse square to it is can get tricky, plus the hole thing is in motion on the movers which really skews the point light effect on the canopy.

Tex

 

[kid606]

hey..keep in mind that 14+ week sativas often benefit from less intense light..they can start to freak around if light is too intense..sure depends on the strain and pheno..was only a reminder..
:smoke

 

[Texas Kid]

hey..keep in mind that 14+ week sativas often benefit from less intense light..they can start to freak around if light is too intense..sure depends on the strain and pheno..was only a reminder..
:smoke

Just one more reason I love indicas

Tex

 

[trichburner]

Decision made , going with 400's . Price tag and bulb choices ruled the day . I'll just have to be creative with training . I'll get my feet wet with a few indica dominate strains first . Besides , I'll have to start with indicas anyway to build up a supply of smoke before I start growing the long flowering stuff :D

Thanks to everyone for their input :handshake

 

[robbiedublu]

In my experience, a lot of folks who start with 400s eventually upgrade to 600s or 1000s and then wish they had just started out that way in the first place. I don't have any experience with CMH though.

 

[Texas Kid]

In my experience, a lot of folks who start with 400s eventually upgrade to 600s or 1000s and then wish they had just started out that way in the first place.

Almost 100% of the time

Tex