Looking For 1big Led Light.

[Amwar420]

Looking for 1big led light for around $1300. Im going to do the scrog method in a 4'x4' room, was also woundering how many original plants i should grow, only going to top them around 3-4 times.

 

[Toaster79]

There's one "1200W" LED light floating around at that price, do your homework.

Plant count: it makes a big difference between toping 3 or 4 times. How long are you gonna veg? Either you're gonna have 8 or 16 colas. Either 8 large, 16 golf balls or 16 large ones. Are you just toping or are you mainlining? LST, pinching and twisting, ....? What are you up to? Sog? Scrog?

Keep it green!

 

[Amwar420]

Yea i was looking at the P1200w, im going to scrog, and i wont as many Big colas as Possible. and i guess im just topping.. whats the best for the scrog method? And what i meant by original plant was like how many pots i guess.

 

[Amwar420]

Probably go with the LST. .

 

[Toaster79]

How long do you plan to weg?

 

[Amwar420]

4weeks

 

[Toaster79]

Seed or clone?

 

[Amwar420]

Seed

 

[Toaster79]

4 weeks from seed toped 3 times I'd go for 9 plants and some real bondage to keep the canopy as even as possible. Just my humble opinion.

Keep it green!

 

[Amwar420]

So i top the first time making the main cola two ccolas, plus i have the two side colas making four total. Pend all four down so they grow horizontally. Let it grow for a couple days, then i top again or will more come on its own then top??

 

[WhiteDragon]

Contact me for 1200w mars II led. ant you dont need so much invesment,unless you want 3000w+ total wattage.

 

[tags420]

I have NO relation to this company but...

Are you sure about that?

And FYI...there are 154 led's in that light...only 10 of them are cree's...unspecified bin crees might I add.

 

[straincreation]

Mars, black dog, groblu. Youl find what u need and all are great quality from what iv see.
happy farmin(:)

 

[tags420]

I have no dog in this fight. I was trying to do people a favor about CREE technology. They don't make fixtures themselves. I could care less what Light you buy but was tying to provide background on the merits of CREE LED technology which is the primary component of any fixture.

I believe if you read the specs the other LEDS are fom Bridgelux, Livermore CA. Just an example of one of their data spec sheets:


Cree is the premium innovator and supplier to the lighting industry, hands down.

Research power output disparities from Chinese LEDs. My only point is the Chinese don't meet specs, the USA companies do. Chinese were also dumping their lousy LEDS (below market pricing) into the US market to f--- with the USA industry. They did the same with solar panels.

It's your money, your choice.

Like I said in the previous post , my second passion is investing in technology stocks and CREE is and has been the Pioneer in LED technology. They were the innovators of being able to do different color LED's at different spectrums while tying to solve problems to be used for micro projectors (hand sized projector to hook up to cell phones to project slideshows, TV, video)

And buying a light fixture with Cree chips isn't going to move the stock price so i have zero alterior motives.

Spend wisely!

You're funny...
No education on LED's needed here...on any of them...and seems that you should still be researching. I'm well rounded in led tech form every brand. But that's cool you gave me your sales pitch...all I can do is keep laughing. We agree on one thing...cree is number one. But how we got there is 100% different, guaranteed.

You see... I actually use led's...in the past, present, and in the future. I run the best pre made panels in the game...and advance 3+yr old light ain't them... Plus make my own that will one up even my apache's.
If we really want to get down to it cree manufacturer in malaysia...it's cree that is superior..not the US unfortunately(yes I do have american pride). But that's besides the point...just pointing out that your are barely on the surface of led's. Keep digging you might learn a something.

But it's ok man...keep talking to me like I know nothing about led's.

EDIT:
And just to keep the hammer down on the subject of being educated on led's
If cree doesn't come out with a new chip top performing led in the next 2 months...they will be #2 once the vero29 V2 hits market.

But hey...what do I know

 

[Toaster79]

Look, I've been using Cree LED's for years now. They are one of the top mfg in the world. I've been building all sorts of lighting from flashlights to indoor fixtures. But try to understand that they are really not the best and the only one! They have managed to make a LED with 200lm/W efficiency, but only in lab. They do make the best blue LED's on the market which are also basis for white emmiters. Now to the color rendering. Here is Nichia way beyond Cree. Although their efficiency is way lower the CRI is out of Cree's charts. Same story with Bridgelux. Wonderful color spectrum but crappy efficiency. Now to the red LED's. Here we have Luxeon with their Rebel series with highest efficiency. Talking about grow lights there's also Illumitex with specially tuned wavelengths and specific primary optics which is suppose to be 50deg (Cree 110-130deg for hi power LED's and even wider beam angle with COB's) meaning there's no need for secondary optics and losses of 10% light due to optics. So yes, spendin wisely is a good advice but show me one commercial unit with highest efficiency emmiters and drivers being used and they don't demand a leg and a kidney for it.

 

[Toaster79]

Do we really need to do that for you?

 

[Toaster79]

Now is the right time to spend those 50K ;)

But I still ain't doing your homework. Do your reasrch by yourself and spend your money wisely.

 

[Toaster79]

Toaster:

Now i get it....Advanced Platinum is Made in CHINA



No wonder you were being a dick and getting defensive about Chinese LED's.

Makes perfect sense now.

Hahahahahahahaha ......

Did you actually read what I wrote? Did you actually get the point of this debate. I bult my own fucking LED lights with Cree and Bridgelux chips you dummy.

Now go and do some more research. You've got 50 large in your hands. I'm pretty darn sure you could build a helluva light with such resources ;)

Keep it green bro!

 

[tags420]

Look, I've been using Cree LED's for years now. They are one of the top mfg in the world. I've been building all sorts of lighting from flashlights to indoor fixtures. But try to understand that they are really not the best and the only one! They have managed to make a LED with 200lm/W efficiency, but only in lab. They do make the best blue LED's on the market which are also basis for white emmiters. Now to the color rendering. Here is Nichia way beyond Cree. Although their efficiency is way lower the CRI is out of Cree's charts. Same story with Bridgelux. Wonderful color spectrum but crappy efficiency. Now to the red LED's. Here we have Luxeon with their Rebel series with highest efficiency. Talking about grow lights there's also Illumitex with specially tuned wavelengths and specific primary optics which is suppose to be 50deg (Cree 110-130deg for hi power LED's and even wider beam angle with COB's) meaning there's no need for secondary optics and losses of 10% light due to optics. So yes, spendin wisely is a good advice but show me one commercial unit with highest efficiency emitters and drivers being used and they don't demand a leg and a kidney for it.

What makes something the best in our industry is sheer photon output...which is efficiency. The spectral gains will never out weight the photon/efficiency loss. Specially in something so small as 80 vs 90 cri...or like you are saying between nichia and cree's in the same class(80 vs 83)

Here are the losses vs gains by going to high cri vs standard...in actual output, not normalized.


And I have tested both nichia and cree's top performing COB's and single die's....

I support nichia...they used to have the edge. But when the cxa line fully came out nichia lost their advantage to cree in the new technology(cobs/high density arrays). Nichia's patents only held strong through the small die's like the 219's...which now is even behind the xml2's and the new xpl's since cree has moved on from what nichia has still not.
My apache's are nichia's. 219's. They are awesome and the best in any premade panel...but there is slightly better stuff out now.

Bridgelux efficiency is top notch with the vero series, much better than nichia. Plus lowest cost of the top performers, slightly warmer spectrums per K temp, and the best thermal performance of any cob. Like I said...when the V2 of the vero29 hits market...cree will be looking up at someone once again. But as it stands now...cree has a strong lead over them all in what matters...efficiency...and thus output.

Cobs are 115* for cree...120 for bridgelux. And no optics are necessary for top results. But if one wanted more a more focused beam, I would suggest reflectors with cobs, not lenese. Better efficiency and much less loss overall since only a fraction actually gets reflected, the center beam is still unaltered. And the temp droop with lenses and high wattage sources like cobs is a nightmare only leading to failure of the chips. Reflectors mitigate that 10 fold.


Red's are interesting. But once again...efficiency is the teller of performance in our industry(growing). Temp droop is a bitch with them though. Osram oslon's(~48%) and cree xpe's(~48%), are the best 660nm, not luxeons(44%). Cree xpe's for 630nm. 630nm is the most efficiently used by plants, but temp droop is worse than the 660nm.

Blues are just efficient period...but phillips has the best output blues, cree is right behind. and cost is substantially cheaper in the US...EU is the other way. Same with reds for that matter on cost based on location.

I have double checked cree's spectrums myself when I got my first shipment. Spot on...


And have tested illumitex's too, and was not impressed considering their price and claims. Probably grows some mean lettuce in a rectangular bed though.



The bottom line is that it takes the very best led's(most efficient/highest radiant output per watt) to keep up with a higher wattage hps. And even then we are competing, not dominating, and then DE's are raising the bar even higher. So This is is why it is absolutely necessary to get/make a top efficiency led panel if your goal is to save wattage and not compromise yields. Otherwise just get an hps...they are 35-40% efficient...98% of led's can't touch that...let alone separate themselves from it.


Then we can get into drivers if we really want to. Improving your drivers efficiency up by ~4-5% is equivalent to getting a whole bin increase on your chips.
So the best chips with the worse drivers might underperform a cheaper low output light because the power it takes to get the damn thing to light up is killing your total system efficiency even if the chip it's self is putting more out per W. This is the area most companies skimp on because they think it's not as important. But this is just ranting now...I have said my piece.


I know you know this...I'm just reiterating for others.

 

[Toaster79]

What makes something the best in our industry is sheer photon output...which is efficiency. The spectral gains will never out weight the photon/efficiency loss. Specially in something so small as 80 vs 90 cri...or like you are saying between nichia and cree's in the same class(80 vs 83)

Here are the losses vs gains by going to high cri vs standard...
View attachment 482529

And I have tested both nichia and cree's top performing COB's and single die's....
View attachment 482530 View attachment 482536
I support nichia...they used to have the edge. But when the cxa line fully came out nichia lost their advantage to cree in the new technology(cobs/high density arrays). Nichia's patents only held strong through the small die's like the 219's...which now is even behind the xml2's and the new xpl's since cree has moved on from what nichia has still not.
My apache's are nichia's. 219's. They are awesome and the best in any premade panel...but there is slightly better stuff out now.

Bridgelux efficiency is top notch with the vero series, much better than nichia. Plus lowest cost of the top performers, slightly warmer spectrums per K temp, and the best thermal performance of any cob. Like I said...when the V2 of the vero29 hits market...cree will be looking up at someone once again. But as it stands now...cree has a strong lead over them all in what matters...efficiency...and thus output.

Cobs are 115* for cree...120 for bridgelux. And no optics are necessary for top results. But if one wanted more a more focused beam, I would suggest reflectors with cobs, not lenese. Better efficiency and much less loss overall since only a fraction actually gets reflected, the center beam is still unaltered. And the temp droop with lenses and high wattage sources like cobs is a nightmare only leading to failure of the chips. Reflectors mitigate that 10 fold.


Red's are interesting. But once again...efficiency is the teller of performance in our industry(growing). Temp droop is a bitch with them though. Osram oslon's(~48%) and cree xpe's(~48%), are the best 660nm, not luxeons(44%). Cree xpe's for 630nm. 630nm is the most efficiently used by plants, but temp droop is worse than the 660nm.

Blues are just efficient period...but phillips has the best output blues, cree is right behind. and cost is substantially cheaper in the US...EU is the other way. Same with reds for that matter on cost based on location.

I have double checked cree's spectrums myself when I got my first shipment. Spot on...
View attachment 482534

And have tested illumitex's too, and was not impressed considering their price and claims. Probably grows some mean lettuce in a rectangular bed though.
View attachment 482535


The bottom line is that it takes the very best led's(most efficient/highest radiant output per watt) to keep up with a higher wattage hps. And even then we are competing, not dominating, and then DE's are raising the bar even higher. So This is is why it is absolutely necessary to get/make a top efficiency led panel if your goal is to save wattage and not compromise yields. Otherwise just get an hps...they are 35-40% efficient...98% of led's can't touch that...let alone separate themselves from it.


Then we can get into drivers if we really want to. Improving your drivers efficiency up by ~4-5% is equivalent to getting a whole bin increase on your chips.
So the best chips with the worse drivers might underperform a cheaper low output light because the power it takes to get the damn thing to light up is killing your total system efficiency even if the chip it's self is putting more out per W. This is the area most companies skimp on because they think it's not as important. But this is just ranting now...I have said my piece.


I know you know this...I'm just reiterating for others.

Word! Like you were taking those words out of my brain.

(the last red XP-E generation is actually Luxeons die, it's called grow red or something like that; and Cree hammered down competition with SiC technology, now 3rd generation chips, beingable to lower jT and bin their chips at working temps 85*C. Nichia still has beatiful color with 219B, ditching that pinkish tone and comming to the white side. Cree pulled the trigger with EZW, 2 step and 4 step McAdams, incorporating it in XM-L/2, MC-E and their COBs and pissed on Nichia on that level to. Samsung is also here with 3535 seseries copying XP package just like Nichia. Luxeon was also not my favorite because of their tiny dies and low currents ......)