Amwar420
- Posts
- 65
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- Joined
- Jan 30, 2015
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So Toaster 79 do u think the P1200w is what i need for my 2plant scrog in my 4'x4' area
1200$ for a rebranded eshine...keep searching around. Even mars is a better option imo. You need something with a square or close to it design...rectangles waste so much and will never cover the area properly.
Straight from the source...
Just curious, if you HAD to buy an LED and cost wasn't a factor, which one would you get? I don't have the tech savvy to build my own and I noticed your comments on irishboii's thread about your Apache. Just wondering if you still think that that's the best LED apart from building your own. $2500 is a shitload for a light and easily the most expensive LED I've seen, but I'd be willing to pay it if the specs are accurate and it won't be obsolete in a year or two.
Also, why do you think so many LED manufacturers produce rectangular lights, as opposed to making them square? Again, I noticed your comments on irishboii's thread and I don't expect you to know, but any theories would be well-received and taken into consideration. I'm just a curious dude, I guess... As I've been researching LEDs, I've often wondered this and it seems like you're pretty knowledgable. Just wondering....
Lastly, what other LEDs have you used, apart from the Apache? Like I said, I've been researching this shit for at least three years and every review I've read about any of them always devolves into a "he said/she said, my light is better than yours" type of thing. All I really wanna know is what WORKS?
I'll try to hit everything...
I still think that Apache is the best pre-made panels out. I also know they cost a shit ton...but the code ATLGR27 will drop 400$. The at600 is the only one that put out a foot print and intensity that comes like a 1000w hps. Which is what I compare to. My second choice is area51. For smaller panels the are my #1 pic because of price. My 3rd is CLW880. After that I probably wouldn't use any other pre-made leds.
If hps like max yields aren't your goal, then I'm not the best person to talk to about led. I'm a led snob, but only because it takes the very best led's to compete with hps.
Ask any company claiming to replace a 1000w hps for a 4x4 or 5x5 par footprint. Then compare it to a 1K hps. It's clear as day when any light is up next to a 1K, why they underperform. But apache is right there and averages more.
Also you can look at the components being used to make a premade. If they aren't up to par(pun intended), they won't perform on a whole system level. It's hard to beat hps, and only the best led's and components can make it happen with any kind of wattage savings.
The reason why so many are rectangular is because they all come from the same 3-5 factories in china. Some "customize" spectrums, and call it something else...or some companies actually put better components in, rare though. But the frame and base components, and usually assembly, all get made in shenzhen china.
Also for whatever reason...circuit boards have always been rectangular....and led manufactures haven't varied from it.
My first led was a 28w ebay con artist thing...I was sucker. Second was a stealthgrow 602. Then I started getting apache's(at120's). Wasn't very happy till the new line(at200 and at600) came out. Now I am getting the yields like a hps.
I have been to 5 max yield and canna shows, testing par outputs of every light on display, led to DE hps. It amazes me the crap that is in the led market. Very very few step up and use what it takes to get on hps's level.
It all comes down to output numbers/performance and the efficiency of the chips used. No light has any real secret when you know those. Getting certain info out of companies is hard sometimes though.
I personally would wait for the next model/upgrade from Apache or area51. Both should have something new soon. Area51 by april I heard.
Apache's website sucks big time. They really don't focus on public sales too much...obviously. The people they deal with usually know exactly what they are looking for and AT has it, so the website has always been shitty. They have always been major player driven not so much hobbyist. But if you have any questions just call or email and they will answer just about anything. And what they don't answer, I usually have the answer or can check my lights.Okay, thanks so much for your response. And the code that'll drop $400 haha. That actually brings the price down to most of the LEDs I've seen that claim to replace 1000w HIDs. I'm gonna seriously consider getting one ASAP, although I will try to find out when Apache's planning on making their newest model available. Kind of eager to get a grow started, though, you know? Don't really wanna wait until, like, this July or August...
Just one other question: why is Apache's website so low-rent? Haha.
Apache's website sucks big time. They really don't focus on public sales too much...obviously. The people they deal with usually know exactly what they are looking for and AT has it, so the website has always been shitty. They have always been major player driven not so much hobbyist. But if you have any questions just call or email and they will answer just about anything. And what they don't answer, I usually have the answer or can check my lights.
Nothing majorly new will come out from AT's. Just a slight improvement of the same chips possibly.
A51 is coming out with all new designs and using some cobs(vero's). Maybe with some cree 660nm's. No official word yet...but late april was whispered.
Growers house has done a bucnh of par test in their review section of their site you can check
http://growershouse.com/blog/category/leds/
Thanks man.Yeah, I read those test results on growershouse a while ago, but this was when I was still like,"Wellllll, maybe I can find one of comparable quality for cheaper...." Which is odd, because I've always been a "you get what you pay for" kinda guy. I'm definitely gonna get an Apache, though. Sick of waiting and reading and reading and reading. Then reading some more. Watching all those videos you posted on your Apache thread didn't hurt, either haha. Nice work, thanks a lot for that, really appreciate it.
Thanks man.
With led's it's a get what you pay for 99% of the time. doesn't necessarily mean that 2200 is better than 1899...but anything that seems too good to be true probably is. Or else everyone would have one. People believe and know good led's work. They just don't believe in the prices.
There are a bunch more on my youtube if you want to see more runs.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkuwpcjAkAGLLqNJi6MOEOw/videos
My pleasure. Nothing to thank me for, you pulled the trigger. It definitely feels like a leap of faith. But the feeling goes away quick after the first harvest. And is totally forgotten after a year of savings and danks on danks with no maintenance. And then years more of that to come.Stopped dragging my feet and finally ordered my AT600. Can't thank you enough for that code. That shit would've been almost $3000 without it, figuring in the tax and shipping. Still, I'm stoked, super-excited, pumped as a motherfucker etc etc etc. It's a good feeling, feeling confident that you spent your money wisely, you know? Having said that, I'm still going,"Really? Seriously? Did I actually just spend what amounts to a down-payment on a car on one light?" Still, I'm certain I did the right thing.
Thanks again. I'll post my grow once it starts thriving (if it starts thriving). Got Goji, Prayer Tower, Gold Star f4's and El Jefe Thai beans that I'm dying to pop. Hopefully I'll have something to show the farm in like four months.
Thank you thank you thank you.
I would wait for Apache if that is the way u want to go. Are u not interested at looking at any other brands? I haven't seen anything that great about Mars that would be able to compare to a good 600watt HPS setup. Just make sure u get good bulbs if u go HPS. I really think a mix is a great way to go. A nice led on top and maybe some verticals on the sides. Just an idea I've had and I'm looking at trying it next round. I grow in an undercurrent system.
yeah me too...im still with the old magnetic hps ballasts and batwing hoods lol, im an oldschool guy, dont like spending money if something it still working, if it aint broke dont fix it :D lol...but after i seen these led lights, i told myself if i ever spring and spend the money for an upgrade, it wont be a gavita with all that heat, or an led that has all its lights concentrated in a little box, which can also create heat...this desing seems very well made, by spreading the lights out evenly makes for great heat dispersal and even canopy coverage...and the fact it only consumes 680 watts but still out performs gavita in the yields...but at 3k a light...ill have to wait a bit before i can afford it, when i do ill buy 2 lights to replace 3 of my hps...just to see the diference...if anything ill supplement the led with a single hps...mas that sounds weird lol using hps to supplement led lolNow thats results that I can understand! I guess as for me Im probably gonna stick with HPS- for now that is, as the lights that come well recommended seem to be hella expensive. But thats the way of things on the leading edge of technology. Looks like Ill wait till the efficient stuff is common. I may have to spring for one good LED to play with, but I just cant afford to switch em all now....
Completely agree with you on those. I just saw those a couple weeks ago. I will definelty be purchasing those if I ever went big. That is an amazing system. Im thinking of trying one out. Gotta save a little for that tho.i believe the BML Spydr 1200 outperforms any led on the market today....hell it outperforms gavita DE lamps...and costs less to run....but costs about 3000 a light
and the results
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