Looking to buy new light

[Reid77]

What's everyone's thoughts on the mars hydro ts 1000 looking to purchase 2 of them for 4x4x7 grow tent

 

[az2000]

What's everyone's thoughts on the mars hydro ts 1000 looking to purchase 2 of them for 4x4x7 grow tent

Those have square footprints. Two of them won't effectively cover 4x4 square. I'd recommend 4 square-footprint fixtures (whatever brand). Or, 2-3 with rectangle footprint. I'd keep an eye on actual watts used (not the hyped numbers that appear in the model names).

I can't recommend anything. I haven't looked at LED in a few years. If I were you, I'd think in terms of watts/sq ft. Sometimes people run low-price LED fixtues at 50w/sq ft. At that point, CMH at 35w/sq ft would be better.

 

[Reid77]

I can get a cmh 630w for around same price as 2x mars ts 1000 just not sure what to do

 

[logic]

I can get a cmh 630w for around same price as 2x mars ts 1000 just not sure what to do

Get yourself a 630w CMH you wont regret it :)

 

[Reid77]

What are they like for hydro

 

[Reid77]

Get yourself a 630w CMH you wont regret it :)

I'm also seeing that cmh run hot I have a 4x4 tent with an exhaust fan will that be enough to keep it cool enough in the tent

 

[az2000]

I can get a cmh 630w for around same price as 2x mars ts 1000 just not sure what to do

Those Mars are 150w actual (each). I don't think it will compare.

I got into LED grow lights a few years ago. There are good fixtures, but they're expensive. The inexpensive ones (like Mars) weren't that good (compared to traditional lighting. T5HO at 40w/sq ft. CMH @ 35w/sq ft.). And, worst of all: you could never be sure what's what. A lot of expensive lights were just rebranded Mars. A lot of flim-flam out there. A lot of people digging their lights, evangelizing, but the reality was that they were running more w/sq ft than T5HO or CMH (which begs the question: why?).

I haven't looked at LED for 3-4 years. Maybe things are better. It just felt like a black hole of wasted time. It never seemed like the buds were as frosty and sticky/stinky as T5HO or CMH. It think that was due to LED not producing UV. You can add reptile lights for that. But... I never knew how much to add, how long to run them, when to replace them. (But, I've seen some grow journals of plants flowering under LED, even Mars, an they look decently crystaled.).

IMO, best thing to do would be to CMH 315. That's good for 3x3'. Add another 120w around the periphery for the extra 7 square feet. Use ordinary household lightbuls. Or, use a single-tube reflected T5HO on two sides for 108w, and a few household LED bulbs in the corners for another 50-60 watts. (The idea is that your 3x3 center would receive 35w/sq ft. You'd have 7 sq ft more to cover with 40w/sq ft T5HO. Or, at 30w/sq ft with the household lightbulbs. The lightbulbs can be a challenge to manage, mounting, aiming. The single-tube T5HO would be easier. You can use both to get enough light around the edge.).

LED definitely grows. I'm just not convinced it's as good traditional lights. If you need lower heat, you pay alot for very good LED. Otherwise, I think people are running average LED at 40-50w/sq ft. At that point, CMH and T5HO look better to me (especially with the UV). That's how it was 3-4 years ago. Maybe it's improved, and people are getting better results with lower w/sq ft.

 

[az2000]

I'm also seeing that cmh run hot I have a 4x4 tent with an exhaust fan will that be enough to keep it cool enough in the tent

CMH isn't that hot. Especially if you get a reflector with a remote-mount ballast. They also make air-cooled hoods. But, I think that's overkill. (The glass bottom probably absorbs more light than it's worth for the heat captured and extracted.).

The average LED fixture doesn't run as cool as you might think. If you have to run 40-50w/sq ft of LED, it's not going to be that cool. If you pay for the expensive/efficient LEDs, you might be able to run 25w/sq ft. That would be cool. But, you'll pay lot for that.

There are DIY options that might be efficient/cool without being expensive.

 

[az2000]

I can get a cmh 630w for around same price as 2x mars ts 1000 just not sure what to do

Also, 630w CMH is overkill for a 4x4 tent. I think that's a rectangle footprint. So, it wouldn't be efficient. More w/sq ft than you need. A 315w is made for a 3x3 tent. You just need to supplement the 6" perimeter all the way around.

 

[420baby]

What's everyone's thoughts on the mars hydro ts 1000 looking to purchase 2 of them for 4x4x7 grow tent

If you have enough budget, i would like to suggest you to check two SP250. They can cover your tent well and offer around 460W power.

 

[Reid77]

If you have enough budget, i would like to suggest you to check two SP250. They can cover your tent well and offer around 460W power.

Yea I don't have the budget for them that's why I was looking at either 2x the mars hydro ts 1000 or a cmh 630w I can get either option for around 330 sent to my door

 

[Ace9137]

Get yourself a 630w CMH you wont regret it :)

What about the LEC's, are they any good?

 

[az2000]

Yea I don't have the budget for them that's why I was looking at either 2x the mars hydro ts 1000 or a cmh 630w I can get either option for around 330 sent to my door

You mentioned heat as a concern. That 630 is more light/heat, and an ineffective footprint for your tent. A CMH LEC 315 (remote ballast version) will be cool. That's perfect for a 3x3 footprint. Then you just need to fill in a 6" margin around the perimeter during flower.

T5HO is the easiest way to do that. You need 40w/sq ft of T5HO in flower. You have 7 sq ft to cover (around the perimeter). That's 280w. A single-tube 4-long fixture with reflector like this Sun Blaze Supreme (960350) works. Just attach the brackets to the tent legs to have sidelighting (if your plants fill the entire tent. Otherwise, they'll grow under the 3x3 LEC.).

That would be 216w. That leaves you shy about 70w. Household LED lightbulbs can be used at 25-30w/sq ft. Just mount one mount one 14-15w lightbulb to each corner leg:

That's a 2x4 tent. But, that front-left leg gives you an idea of what I'm talking about. Put one of those on each leg. The first and third articles at this link explain that topic.

If heat were a big concern, you can replace the ballasts in those T5HOs with Fulham Racehorse models that are remote-mountable. Or, don't use T5HO at all. Use more of the lightbulbs at 25-30w/sq ft. (175-210w total needed for that 7sq ft of perimeter.). For example, you can make a 4' long 1x4 board that holds 5 15w bulbs. Three of those boards would supply 225w, leaving the door side unobstructed.

That sounds hokey. But, you can get an *amazing* efficiency by spreading the watts around the plants that way (compared to single-point, top-down). I grew a plant at 18-22w/sq ft from veg to flower under nothing but these LED lightbulbs. I show some photos here (<<link). It was good results. Just not as resiny as CMH or T5HO will do. They're definitely effective for supplemental lighting. But, my point is: I don't think the lightbulbs are that efficient. I think what let me run them at so low w/sq ft was spreading it around the plant; and the closeness of the those distributed light sources.

So... if heat management is an issue, you can invest some sweat equity. Either remote-mounting T5HO ballasts. Or, making lightbulb fixtures. The LEC 315 is relatively efficient at 35w/sq ft (it's more like 38w/sq ft counting the ballast). You get UV from that. Then choose your source of supplemental lighting around the sides (for when plants grow outside the 3x3 footprint). There are a few choices for that, depending on whether you want it to be easy to implement (the 1-tube T5HO), or lower-heat lightbulbs.

 

[Reid77]

This is the light I chose

 

[az2000]

This is the light I chose

I'm not familiar with Vivosun. I use Philips hood, ballast and Mastercolor bulbs. It looks like your kit comes with 3000k bulb. I use 4200k in veg, and switch to 3100k 2-3 weeks after 12/12. I've heard the 3100 vegs nicely, and that people use it all the way through veg and flower. I haven't done that. I assume the Vivosun 3000k would be similar.

Have you thought about sidelighting around the perimeter of your 4x4 tent? 6" margin all the way around which the 315 isn't capable of covering. That's 7 sq ft. If you use T5HO, you need 280w worth. If you use household LED lightbulbs, you need 210w worth (@30w/sq ft). Eight (2 mounted on each corner leg, higher for top-down'ish direction) 19w floodlights would work well. That would be out of the way compared to 4' T5HO tunes. Then maybe four 9w bulbs (one mounted on each corner leg, lower for side lighting).

The problem is that the flood lights I used to like aren't made anymore. I haven't looked at the newer ones. I just got a PAR meter to compare LED lightbulbs again. I'll look at the new flood lights. (One nice thing about them is that they're plastic housing/lens. It should be possible to cut the lens off. That wasn't possible with the old ones I like. They're glass. Removing the plastic diffusion globe from a lightbulb makes a *huge* difference in the amount of light reaching the plant. The lightbulbs have their LEDs mounted flat, facing the same way. Removing that globe lets them work like directional light. The reflector doesn't do as much for them, which is good because reflecting light causes a loss. So, I'm thinking the new floodlights might benefit similarly. I just need to get one and see.). Also, it's important to note that, when removing the plastic globe, you need to power those bulbs through a GFCI outlet. There can be exposed contacts under that globe. A GFCI makes that safe against accidental contact.

A 16w bulb in a reflector does well for higher up, downward sidelighting too. The last time I measured the bulbs, the Philips seemed to be the best light. But, the GE Brightstiks were more directional. They both were directional. But, the reflector didn't add much to the GE's performance. (Nothing at all for the 16w.). I need to measure it again, and instead of lumens, PAR ppfd. That should reveal which is best (if there's spectrum difference).

You could probably reduce those sidelight watts because providing light at different angles this way (from more, distributed sources) makes the light more efficient, it seems to me. So, I gave those total T5HO and LED numbers above thinking 40w/sq ft and 30w/sq ft. But, as surround light, 30 and 20 (respectively) might be reasonable. Or, something in between. The nice thing with distributed light like this is that you can turn it on as needed. If you have sockets mounted to the tent legs, you can use 9w, 16w, 19w. It's as easy as unscrewing a bulb. You can have more sockets with lower-watt bulbs to distribute the light better. You can mix warm and cool bulbs.

 

[Reid77]

Before I made my mind up I watched some YouTube videos on these lights and guys are getting huge results with just one of these in a 4x4 alone without other supplement lighting I'm not disagreeing with you at all gonna try it for this grow on it's own I have 4 plants at 6 weeks into veg that I'm switching a cheap led light out for this new cmh hopefully on thursday

 

[Reid77]

I have exhaust fan set up will that be enough to keep heat down? Also what's a good height to keep the light at for veg stage and bloom stage?

 

[Ace9137]

I have exhaust fan set up will that be enough to keep heat down? Also what's a good height to keep the light at for veg stage and bloom stage?

Sounds like you are a fellow tent grower. I have a 4x4x7 tent, 2 exhaust fans,(4 inch and 8 inch), 400 watt HPS, I leave my tent open on hot days,( I live in the northern U.S.), otherwise my setup works just fine.

 

[az2000]

I have exhaust fan set up will that be enough to keep heat down? Also what's a good height to keep the light at for veg stage and bloom stage?

The heat topic depends on your climate. If heat's a concern, you should have gotten a remote-mount ballast. (LEC 315 RA reflector & Hardcore ballast #902659). There are also some CMH reflectors with sealed glass bottoms and you extract your tent air through the reflector. I don't think that would be worth the light loss of the glass. I'm in a hot climate and it doesn't seem like there's that much heat that way. But, it's a nice option (they didn't make those hoods 4-5 years ago. Ballasts couldn't be removed either.).

Two feet's a good distance to cover 3x3. You can be closer in flower, but be mindful of the footprint if you're trying to cover 4x4.

More light (sidelighting) in late flower makes a difference. Even if you don't make those tent-leg mount, you might want to get some clamp-on reflectors at Home Depot. You have to treat the metal reflector carefully. It's very thin metal and won't last long if you leave it laying around. Stack them together and put them inside a bucket or something. Get some 15-16w GE Brightstiks (warm white). Carefully cut the diffusion globe off (around the base). You have to be careful not to let the hacksaw blade go too deep. The LEDs are surface mounted right there. Power them with a CFCI outlet. (You can buy a junction box, like you have in the wall). Cut the end off a 3-prong extension cord, attach the box to the end of it (clamping the box onto the wire). Attach the wires to the CFCI outlet. Put a wall-plate cover over it.

I don't think you even need to use the reflector with those Brightsticks (but, the reflector protects the exposed LED surface from accidental contact. Those little square diodes are super hot. I've accidentally touched them to leaves and "branded" the leave with small brown squares.). The 9-10w (60w equiv) benefits from the reflector. It just depends how much you want to distribute the light, how many sockets you want to use. If you just put one of anything on each corner leg in mid to late flower, it will make a difference.

 

[Aqua Man]

Dropping this and running just an option I'm not here to debate. Mount the driver outside the tent to reduce heat further.

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