Lowering PH

Beachwalker · Aug 16, 2019

Aqua Man said:
Could cut down on the dolomite to compensate for your hard water. Dolomite will raise your soil ph. If you have hard water you won't need much.

Well I don't overdo it I add three tablespoons to a 3 gallon pot and then I usually add one more when it goes into flower but I check my run off every third watering it's very seldom below 6.0 and usually around 6 3 it's pretty much right on the button with the ffof

What I mean by the citric acid being my best option I'm assuming I can get quite a bit of it into solution, stronger than the lemon juice which I believe comes diluted with water, and at 3 pounds for around $9 it seems like a fairly economical option as well?

Aqua Man · Aug 16, 2019

Beachwalker said:
Well I don't overdo it I add three tablespoons to a 3 gallon pot and then I usually add one more when it goes into flower but I checked my run off every third watering it's very seldom below 6.0 and usually around 6 3 it's pretty much right on the button with the ffof

What I mean by the citric acid being my best option I'm assuming I can get quite a bit of it into solution, stronger than the lemon juice which I believe comes diluted with water, and at 3 pounds for around $9 it seems like a fairly economical option as well?

If your soil ph is good your good. In term of economical it's kinda subjective different acids break down differently. Something like

https://www.amazon.com/I-MAX-Phosph...565985823&s=gateway&sprefix=phosphoric&sr=8-3

cost wise would go alot further but in soil I feel why bother when you can build the soil to your water and never have to ph. Like I was saying earlier you would need to find out the carbonate hardness to get an idea. Ppm could give you an indication.

You have your stuff dialed in so you may not want to bother changing anything.

I guess this is something you have to test if you are so inclined to do so.

Have you tried not phing yet?

Carbonate hardness can always be added in the form of lime down the road if your getting to acidic once you do a grow not phing you can see if you need slightly more lime or peat moss to keep you in the sweet spot. Then you have eliminated the need to buy and use ph products and the soil does it all for you.

PipeCarver · Aug 16, 2019

Aqua Man said:
If your soil ph is good your good. In term of economical it's kinda subjective different acids break down differently. Something like

https://www.amazon.com/I-MAX-Phosph...565985823&s=gateway&sprefix=phosphoric&sr=8-3

cost wise would go alot further but in soil I feel why bother when you can build the soil to your water and never have to ph. Like I was saying earlier you would need to find out the carbonate hardness to get an idea. Ppm could give you an indication.

You have your stuff dialed in so you may not want to bother changing anything.

I guess this is something you have to test if you are so inclined to do so.

Have you tried not phing yet?

Carbonate hardness can always be added in the form of lime down the road if your getting to acidic once you do a grow not phing you can see if you need slightly more lime or peat moss to keep you in the sweet spot. Then you have eliminated the need to buy and use ph products and the soil does it all for you.

Hi, I know you science guys have helped make pot the marvel it is today buy tweeking this that and the other thing but geees man you're making it too complicated for an old guy to follow. I mean I buy dirt(promix), I plant seed, I grow weed. If I water and feed I get a harvest to eliminate the pain. Now the science guys come in and I realize I don't know what the fk I'm doing. Now I have to become a fking scientist to figure it all out.

Aqua Man · Aug 16, 2019

PipeCarver said:
Hi, I know you science guys have helped make pot the marvel it is today buy tweeking this that and the other thing but geees man you're making it too complicated for an old guy to follow. I mean I buy dirt(promix), I plant seed, I grow weed. If I water and feed I get a harvest to eliminate the pain. Now the science guys come in and I realize I don't know what the fk I'm doing. Now I have to become a fking scientist to figure it all out.

Nah... If it works it works. No need to change things. Just some info for those who are interested. There is no one right way and I'm not saying phing is bad. Just not necessarily needed. The science is just trying to explain why. If your like me I need to have a reason to make changes and won't just take someone saying "you don't need to" without an explanation. So just trying to give that.

If it works it works and many probably feel it's not worth changing something that's working. Nothing wrong with that.

Beachwalker · Aug 16, 2019

Aqua Man said:
If your soil ph is good your good. In term of economical it's kinda subjective different acids break down differently. Something like

https://www.amazon.com/I-MAX-Phosph...565985823&s=gateway&sprefix=phosphoric&sr=8-3

cost wise would go alot further but in soil I feel why bother when you can build the soil to your water and never have to ph. Like I was saying earlier you would need to find out the carbonate hardness to get an idea. Ppm could give you an indication.

You have your stuff dialed in so you may not want to bother changing anything.

I guess this is something you have to test if you are so inclined to do so.

Have you tried not phing yet?

Carbonate hardness can always be added in the form of lime down the road if your getting to acidic once you do a grow not phing you can see if you need slightly more lime or peat moss to keep you in the sweet spot. Then you have eliminated the need to buy and use ph products and the soil does it all for you.

No I would never not pH! I'm an old Hydro grower and old habits die hard! I'm only in my fourth year growing in soil but I do like to mix things up & try new things, I'm doing a Jobes spike grow right now which is actually not going bad to my amazement, but it's a Romberry they're pretty much a bulletproof plant

I would make my own soil but I barely have room right now as it is with a couple bags of dirt! I'm a little past the age where I want to be schlepping a bunch of different bags and mixing it all up too, that's why I went with soil over hydro this time because I didn't want to be dragging heavy buckets around either

like the above poster said, I like keeping it both simple and easy, put a seed in soil & grow weed! although I do like to add things I've recently started adding worm castings to the fox farm and I suppose eventually I'll bubble up a tea too ?

I'm giving this stuff a try next

Sphagnum peat moss based. Will toss some worm castings, blood meal maybe a couple other things in there see how it goes!? Its $11 less than Fox Farm so I'll give it a try it's got some newts in it but they're very light

Aqua Man · Aug 16, 2019

Beachwalker said:
No I would never not pH! I'm an old Hydro grower and old habits die hard! I'm only in my fourth year growing in soil but I do like to mix things up & try new things, I'm doing a Jobes spike grow right now which is actually not going bad to my amazement, but it's a Romberry they're pretty much a bulletproof plant

I would make my own soil but I barely have room right now as it is with a couple bags of dirt! I'm a little past the age where I want to be schlepping a bunch of different bags and mixing it all up too, that's why I went with soil over hydro this time because I didn't want to be dragging heavy buckets around either

like the above poster said, I like keeping it both simple and easy, put a seed in soil & grow weed! although I do like to add things I've recently started adding worm castings to the fox farm and I suppose eventually I'll bubble up a tea too ?

I'm giving this stuff a try next
View attachment 888620

Sphagnum peat moss based. Will toss some worm castings, blood meal maybe a couple other things in there see how it goes!? Its $11 less than Fox Farm so I'll give it a try it's got some newts in it but they're very light

Sounds awesome

MIMedGrower · Aug 16, 2019

Beachwalker said:
No I would never not pH! I'm an old Hydro grower and old habits die hard! I'm only in my fourth year growing in soil but I do like to mix things up & try new things, I'm doing a Jobes spike grow right now which is actually not going bad to my amazement, but it's a Romberry they're pretty much a bulletproof plant

I would make my own soil but I barely have room right now as it is with a couple bags of dirt! I'm a little past the age where I want to be schlepping a bunch of different bags and mixing it all up too, that's why I went with soil over hydro this time because I didn't want to be dragging heavy buckets around either

like the above poster said, I like keeping it both simple and easy, put a seed in soil & grow weed! although I do like to add things I've recently started adding worm castings to the fox farm and I suppose eventually I'll bubble up a tea too ?

I'm giving this stuff a try next
View attachment 888620

Sphagnum peat moss based. Will toss some worm castings, blood meal maybe a couple other things in there see how it goes!? Its $11 less than Fox Farm so I'll give it a try it's got some newts in it but they're very light

Huh. Thats pretty cheap delivered. All I ever need to add for good results is perlite for drainage. All the brands i tried worked fine once i figured out how much. And none needed any ph adjusting of my water or nute mix or any additional lime even when i had 12-13 week flowering girls in a 3 gallon pot.

When i tried ammending happy frog with castings and rock dust and de i ended up with a soggy mess.

Needed more perlite. Lol

Beachwalker · Aug 16, 2019

MIMedGrower said:
Huh. Thats pretty cheap delivered. All I ever need to add for good results is perlite for drainage. All the brands i tried worked fine once i figured out how much. And none needed any ph adjusting of my water or nute mix or any additional lime even when i had 12-13 week flowering girls in a 3 gallon pot.

When i tried ammending happy frog with castings and rock dust and de i ended up with a soggy mess.

Needed more perlite. Lol

I know right! Still got a couple of bags of foxfarm to go through and then I'm going to give that a try probably by the fall !

MIMedGrower · Aug 16, 2019

Beachwalker said:
I know right! Still got a couple of bags of foxfarm to go through and then I'm going to give that a try probably by the fall !

Ever seen this?

10 Must-Know Growing Media Facts

From managing nutrient levels to addressing common issues like mold and odor, discover essential insights on growing media with our guide to 10 must-know facts.

www.pthorticulture.com

Number one is how long these mixes are a actually good before degradation.

Beachwalker · Aug 16, 2019

MIMedGrower said:
Ever seen this?

10 Must-Know Growing Media Facts

From managing nutrient levels to addressing common issues like mold and odor, discover essential insights on growing media with our guide to 10 must-know facts.

www.pthorticulture.com

Number one is how long these mixes are a actually good before degradation.

Thanks for the info, I saved that link, no doubt it degrades! I posted that slurry test somewhere about that literal last bag of ffof from the local Hydro Store that went out of business, it had 5.1 / 1700 PPM slurry results! Haven't tested these new bags but they're freshly delivered Amazon Prime

Edit to add the premium potting soil pictured above has a pH I believe it was 6.0 - 6.2 I read all I could find about it, one of the company reps said it had some newts but very little and you would need to add before bloom, in case anyone is interested in the product

Bobrown14 · Aug 17, 2019

Aqua Man said:
Usually ph rises over time as co2 is off gassed

Its actually the opposite. Sorry not trying to be argumentative but water siting out will absorb Co2.

"As water sits out, small amounts of carbon dioxide dissolve into the water. This forms carbonic acid"

This will slightly lower the pH of the water and its been my experience as well. Not that I pH test water for growing weed but used to test it for drinking.

For aquatic plant life, its important that water absorb Co2 - that's a crucial ingredient in chlorophyll. If it was leaving the water over time, aquatic plant life would be in peril I'm thinking. Also crucial for human existence - water is the key Co2 sink that keeps our planet the way it is. Without the ability to absorb Co2 we wouldn't be able to live here on earth. The side effect is the pH of our waters is slowing becoming more acidic.

There's a LAW in chemistry called Henry's Law. It's about gases in contact with water and how they are absorbed.

We've argued this before. Show me your science.

Bobrown14 · Aug 17, 2019

I mix my own soil and run it no-till. Been using the same soil for 3 years and get it tested at the state extension service. My soil is peat based. It has not degraded over the last 3 years in fact it may be slightly better according to the soil tests.

There's soil pH and soil acidity - they are not the same. Related yes.

I will argue your soil pH test at home, may not be as accurate as you think.

Remember pH is a logarithmic scale. So a little error and its not accurate. Only way to know for sure is send soil out to your local extension service and have it tested. You will get both soil pH and soil acidity results with recommendation on how to adjust your amendments.

If I mix my own soil and re-use it over and over, is that more work that going to town and buying bags of soil to replace the "old" soil I was using last run?

Last time I mixed up soil (2016) it was on a tarp in a space smaller than my car footprint.

Aqua Man · Aug 17, 2019

Bobrown14 said:
Its actually the opposite. Sorry not trying to be argumentative but water siting out will absorb Co2.

"As water sits out, small amounts of carbon dioxide dissolve into the water. This forms carbonic acid"

This will slightly lower the pH of the water and its been my experience as well. Not that I pH test water for growing weed but used to test it for drinking.

For aquatic plant life, its important that water absorb Co2 - that's a crucial ingredient in chlorophyll. If it was leaving the water over time, aquatic plant life would be in peril I'm thinking. Also crucial for human existence - water is the key Co2 sink that keeps our planet the way it is. Without the ability to absorb Co2 we wouldn't be able to live here on earth. The side effect is the pH of our waters is slowing becoming more acidic.

There's a LAW in chemistry called Henry's Law. It's about gases in contact with water and how they are absorbed.

We've argued this before. Show me your science.

Water will either absorb or release CO2 to reach equalibrium. It can go either way. In my experience the ph rises due to the release of CO2 and reduction of carbonic acid.

Bobrown14 said:
I mix my own soil and run it no-till. Been using the same soil for 3 years and get it tested at the state extension service. My soil is peat based. It has not degraded over the last 3 years in fact it may be slightly better according to the soil tests.

There's soil pH and soil acidity - they are not the same. Related yes.

I will argue your soil pH test at home, may not be as accurate as you think.

Remember pH is a logarithmic scale. So a little error and its not accurate. Only way to know for sure is send soil out to your local extension service and have it tested. You will get both soil pH and soil acidity results with recommendation on how to adjust your amendments.

If I mix my own soil and re-use it over and over, is that more work that going to town and buying bags of soil to replace the "old" soil I was using last run?

Last time I mixed up soil (2016) it was on a tarp in a space smaller than my car footprint.

This is not always the case. In no till organics yes your can get better but when using synthetic it usually degrades. No doubt you can reuse it but when growing in pots using synthetic nutrients personally I think you asking for trouble reusing soil.

Aqua Man · Aug 17, 2019

Bobrown14 said:
Its actually the opposite. Sorry not trying to be argumentative but water siting out will absorb Co2.

"As water sits out, small amounts of carbon dioxide dissolve into the water. This forms carbonic acid"

This will slightly lower the pH of the water and its been my experience as well. Not that I pH test water for growing weed but used to test it for drinking.

For aquatic plant life, its important that water absorb Co2 - that's a crucial ingredient in chlorophyll. If it was leaving the water over time, aquatic plant life would be in peril I'm thinking. Also crucial for human existence - water is the key Co2 sink that keeps our planet the way it is. Without the ability to absorb Co2 we wouldn't be able to live here on earth. The side effect is the pH of our waters is slowing becoming more acidic.

There's a LAW in chemistry called Henry's Law. It's about gases in contact with water and how they are absorbed.

We've argued this before. Show me your science.

You mean aquatic plant life like this? with fish and CO2 injection all live plants with high CO2 demand? Calculating the co2ppm by carbonate hardness and ph drop I think I understand the science of it. I encourage you or anyone else to test ph of fresh tap water. Either let it sit for 24hrs or aerate it for 12hrs then test again.

Bobrown14 · Aug 22, 2019

Aqua Man said:
Water will either absorb or release CO2 to reach equalibrium. It can go either way. In my experience the ph rises due to the release of CO2 and reduction of carbonic acid.

This is not always the case. In no till organics yes your can get better but when using synthetic it usually degrades. No doubt you can reuse it but when growing in pots using synthetic nutrients personally I think you asking for trouble reusing soil.

Yes no-till soil + water only. No mention of fertilizer.

On the equilibrium equation. This has been solved mathematically using Henry's Law.

At the end of the equilibrium workout, water will have a pH of 5.65pH. That's moderately acidic at normal atmosphere ( air and water).

"The most common source of acidity in water is dissolved carbon dioxide. "

There's some science and math on this topic.

NinoGrows420 · Aug 22, 2019

Aquaman is a fukin genius just ask him anything hes got you!!!

Aqua Man · Aug 22, 2019

NinoGrows420 said:
Aquaman is a fukin genius just ask him anything hes got you!!!

Haha far from I make mistakes and am learning constantly

Aqua Man · Aug 22, 2019

Bobrown14 said:
Yes no-till soil + water only. No mention of fertilizer.

On the equilibrium equation. This has been solved mathematically using Henry's Law.

At the end of the equilibrium workout, water will have a pH of 5.65pH. That's moderately acidic at normal atmosphere ( air and water).

"The most common source of acidity in water is dissolved carbon dioxide. "

There's some science and math on this topic.

Yes I'm familiar with Henry's law just haven't used it in calculations in forever. It's more the principles applied that getting the exact numbers for me. I mean you can sit down and math out exactly how much base and acid you need. But it's multiple principles working together. If you understand the basic principles I find experience, application and trial and error over the years I can get pretty close and just tweek for most applications.

cemchris · Aug 22, 2019

Plain tap water PH always goes up for me as it sits unless all of my meters are somehow wired backwards and its actually going down not up. I have never seen plain water drop. Ever. My RO would never drop on its own either when I was using it.

Aqua Man · Aug 22, 2019

cemchris said:
Plain tap water PH always goes up for me as it sits unless all of my meters are somehow wired backwards and its actually going down not up. I have never seen plain water drop. Ever. My RO would never drop on its own either when I was using it.

My experience also

Lowering PH

Lowering PH

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PipeCarver

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MIMedGrower

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10 Must-Know Growing Media Facts

Beachwalker

10 Must-Know Growing Media Facts

Bobrown14

Bobrown14

Aqua Man

Aqua Man

Bobrown14

NinoGrows420

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Aqua Man

cemchris

Aqua Man

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