MALE SELECTION... What are we looking for?

[altitudefarmer]

That is a really cool-looking male!
I'm much more concerned about the amount of pollen sacks, rather than the size of the individual sacks.
No science here, but it seems like sack-size would equate more to calyx-size than anything else. I've had great herb with all different sized calyxes.

 

[caveman4.20]

My most dense nugs came from small calyx formations and this usually for me have smaller seeds

 

[Lemonhoko]

OK, please give me a heads up if I am missing a thread; I found nothing in this forum.

What as a grower do you look for in a male keeper?
I realize everyone's goals may vary; I'd like to share mine.

#1 Parent stock.
I look for a male from a known potent strain. I look also for the most stable strain I can find.

#2 Structure
I like to see vigorous side growth. For my style of growing, I prefer bushes with lots of tops.

#3 Trichomes
I think that somewhat goes without saying.

#4 Hollow Stem.
This I have no scientific data to prove; but I heard it from an old pro. Hollow stems in males equate to resin production; solid stems equate to fiber production.

#5 Smell
Ooh that smell. You know it's going to have flavor when the little ones stink up the veg room.

#6 Puberty
The same old pro who gave me the hollow stem tip said that the ones who show sex the latest are the most stable/NOT prone to throw herm offspring. I used this criteria when I picked my wifi x kushdee male for F2s.

Anybody else have any tips? Especially you breeders out there...

Those are good traits to look for, whether male or female.
But the true test of finding good males is to take the time and breed with them.,...grow out the progeny...test, test, test.
It takes time to find a good male...I would say more time and importance in finding a male that is good.
We are decades behind where we should be for proper male selection...for the last 40-50 years,..its been all about the female flowers.

As more breeders break into the male side of the genetic puzzle, I feel the potential to find new and exciting strains and attributes will be the result.
Its happening more and more as times are changing and taboos dropping about this plant.




~Lem

 

[caveman4.20]

We have quite the adventure in front of us fellow farmers :brb:

 

[nightmarecreature]

All the best strains came from hermie's, accidents and luck! Pollen chuck away, you have just as much of a chance of finding something as good as these breeders.

I never hear, "I crossed this with this and i got exactly what I wanted!"

 

[caveman4.20]

I'm waiting fir the day I can keep everything and clone and run everything atleast twice cuz that clone round doesn't always match the mother for whatever reason anywhoo great thread

 

[altitudefarmer]

All the best strains came from hermie's, accidents and luck! Pollen chuck away, you have just as much of a chance of finding something as good as these breeders.

I never hear, "I crossed this with this and i got exactly what I wanted!"

No kidding. I'ma hope for luck over herms...

...test, test, test.
It takes time to find a good male...


~Lem

That's what I was afraid of! LOL.
I'm testing, testing... Thanks for your input!

We have quite the adventure in front of us fellow farmers :brb:

Nothing left to do but smile... as we work our butts off!

 

[Seamaiden]

Loran's been posting more frequently, it would be super-cool if he came across this thread and shared some of his thoughts.

@caregiverken !!! Love that male! I never considered the size of the male's flowers, until you mentioned it. :D But, does size really matter here, or is it how he uses his flowers? :o

 

[zeke]

It's seems in the real world there is no substitute for cubic displacement. I know my prize winning Hereford bull has an unusually large scrotal circumference. That's the actual technical term. His massive scrotal circumference is an indicator of his ability to produce copious amounts of semen, thus increasing the likelihood of successful impregnation.

Does male flower circumference correlate to an increase in potentially viable pollen released? More than likely. Does it correlate to female progeny calyx size? I don't know. I do know a certain male that I have used imparted the trait. The progeny certainly exhibited the massive calyx trait and their progeny...I can't recall if that particular male was decidedly well hung or not.

Anyone develope a technique to accurately assess unopened staminate floral circumference ? My vet just slaps a tape measure around my Bull's scrotum and jots down a number, fairly simple and accurate technique. What would the cannabis equivilant be? Miniature tape measure and jewelers loupe or tiny calipers? Hmmm?

 

[altitudefarmer]

@caregiverken, @Seamaiden, @zeke, do you guys really feel that calyx size matters?
I would probably select a pheno with larger calyx size if that was the only difference, but I would never put calyx size over trichome production, potency, or flavor...

BUT this is exactly the type of discussion I was looking for on this thread. New ideas, or at least new to this old head.
Like I said before, I used to know a ton more about cannabis. The more I learn, I realize the less I know...lol

@zeke , we had some family friends with a hog farm in the Midwest. Their champion stud boar was named Bawls, for obvious reasons...lol

 

[caveman4.20]

A caliper

 

[caveman4.20]

AF and when you think or when I think I know it all
The plant reminds me I don't know shit

This thread has potential ......

So fir the farmers who believe the male be tested for the progeny how do you explain thethrowback beauty that looks nothing like parents
But surpasses them in every desireable aspect?
Similar to traits that skip generations not just one but even many generations

 

[caveman4.20]

With territorial birds a wise man told me the mother was more important than the father .....a brood stock mother would kill any male that got near her chickies just thinking out loud
More game than most males I mean

 

[caregiverken]

@caregiverken, @Seamaiden, @zeke, do you guys really feel that calyx size matters?

I dont have the slightest idea..im just a chucker :)

 

[caveman4.20]

Gotta love the love...when you got it you got and caregiver you got it...and you give it ...I would grow your seeds anyday

 

[altitudefarmer]

Caveman, that's where it's at. some day maybe science will prove it.

 

[707seedbank]

I reverse my males to females to hunt down specific flavors and now with all the labs around i can even send in samples to find the most powerful and flavorful male. After the reversing and the testing at the lab the best thing is testing out the progeny.

Not all strains cross well with each other. You might have a killer male that made a killer cross with female A, but when using the same male on female B it could turn out crap. The best way is testing out the progeny

 

[FlyinJStable]

Just cuz I am back in school and have access to research I figure I will do my part too.
Right now Molecular Cytogenetic Characterization Cannabis with an XY Chromosome Sex Determination System is being done. The handful of lucky college research labs that have the resources and federal approval just happen to be in close proximity to my classes. As of last month the a few sequencing techniques have been tried and images are very in impressive. The following male and female Cannabis sativa plants were used in these experiments. For the study of mitosis, cv “Zenitsa” seedlings (P.P. Lukyanenko Krasnodar Research and the Development Institute of Agriculture, Krasnodar, Russia) were harvested. To study meiosis, young buds from the “T-80” line were provided by Dr S. Dolgov (Branch of M.M. Shemyakin and Yu. A. Ovchinnikov Institute of Bioorganic Chemistry of the RAS, Pushchino, Moscow Region, Russia). Out of the three Labs I know of, ours here has had exciting results...
This is what I was able to learn, the pairing of the YY XY chromosomes is still not accurate enough to conclude sex due to the weak banding. Their is a lot of stain dies rinse stain rinse etc. in this type of chromosome isolation. The very helpful news as a soon to be grower is this by accident a highly accurate way to read plant physiochemical make up has been Documented.. All of this is now available to anyone willing to read though it.
Taking the best Male physical characteristic's along with other personal choices a Guy could breed a Super CDB Shrub or Tree.
Or it could just be Luck. either way I am willing to do it for the love of the plant. The more I find out the more I will Share.
FYI T80 is a fibrous 6-8' stva w strong drought and high heat tolerances.

 

[FlyinJStable]

I guess the Feds, Mississippi growers were low on real bud so had to import from the Russians... now that's funny

 

[nightmarecreature]

I reverse my males to females to hunt down specific flavors and now with all the labs around i can even send in samples to find the most powerful and flavorful male. After the reversing and the testing at the lab the best thing is testing out the progeny.

Not all strains cross well with each other. You might have a killer male that made a killer cross with female A, but when using the same male on female B it could turn out crap. The best way is testing out the progeny

May I ask how you turn boys into girls? I've worked with males that have throw. Pistils, but never a male that has turned female.