Marijuana Users Not High Priority for President Obama

[fishwhistle]

Not everyone can grow for themselves sky,it takes some skills and alotta people are sick ,dont have the skills or the time or money to invest in equipment,their has to be a place for those people to obtain it too and someone to grow it for them.I would say less than 5% of mj users grow but they too voted for medical here and that includes a SAFE way to obtain it.I hate dispensaries personally but i know they are a necessary evil at this point in time,its a risk vs reward situation at this point,lotsa risk=high price,if however the risk was much lower or not there alot of folks would jump in and the price would plummet,eventually the profit would be so much smaller the bad guys would bail for greener pastures but it cant happen til the feds back off,they are the ones creating this black market vortex,always have been.
The way i read your posts is that you could give a shit,you got yours and if they cant grow their own fuck em,well without them you would still be hiding or "paranoid" as you put it because all the growers both good and bad in either cali or colorado dont equal enough votes to change the laws in either state alone.If pot is to be legal medically or any other way there must be a safe avenue to obtain it also and they know it and are knowingly BLOCKING it with the threat of prison etc etc.
Alot of good people with big hearts that are not in it for the money are going down here right now even as obama says they have nothing to worry about and its wrong both morally and legally.Sure theres a shitload of bad guys and its fucking rediculous to have dispensaries charging 50 or 60 an eigth,id rather see a caregiver type deal where people could buy directly from growers for say 25 an eigth or whatever but that aint going to happen while the feds keep ruining peoples lives for doing it.Honestly if you treated it like brewing your own beer,allowed outside growing of say 6 or 12 plants per person the problem would cure itself but the government makes big casino off seizing cash and property,its become a business for law enforcement,the irs,dea and on down the line and obama is rubberstamping all of it and thats not to say a republican or anyone else wouldnt do the same its just hes in charge now so its his deal.
Christ just do the right thing,go after meth labs and the cartels,seize their shit,they hunted down osama bin laden but they cant catch a bunch of mexicans who openly kill and party in the streets,float around in their yachts and fly in their learjets and launder their money everywhere and get away with it?where are our priorities at?Point a satellite at southern mexico,send in seal team six and in a month you would cut off 75% of all the ILLEGAL weed flowing into this country but oh no instead lets go after a grandma in san jose baking brownies for cancer patients,WTF?

 

[sky high]

No hard feelings here either, ken. We just see things differently via the many different experiences we have both had that have molded what we do and do not believe...starting with if there's a "God" or not....:rolleyes: I'd say that's another thread though...huh?

 

[squiggly]

Bottom line, Obama could write an executive order to stop all medical compliant patients within their state to be immune from prosecution. He could do that, he has the power regardless of what congress and the idiots want to do. He has this power, check it yo!

Sky High said it below.

I for one.....hope he's dealing with more important shit than pot. :rolleyes:

You're right. He COULD sign such an order--but it would put him dead in the water on just about every other issue in the country. It would be INCREDIBLY unpopular for him to do this.


People want to look at life through a lens that only concerns itself with things that affect them. This is a country of 300million dude, the president isn't going to blow all of his clout on addressing an issue which affects a minority of Americans.

I'm still hopeful that we'll see positive change on this issue during this last term of his, but I'd be much happier to see him fix even ONE of our countries bigger problems (financial issues, educational issues, job issues).

To fix THOSE problems, he is going to need congress (ALL OF IT). If you think he can sign an executive order concerning pot during these times (and with all of our myriad of problems floating over our collective head), and that the GOP wouldn't seize on that as on opportunity to begin the 2016 election season--then you have a short-sighted view of politics.

I can see it now:

Boehner: "The president would rather cater to drug-users than solve the real issues facing this country"

In a sentence, an executive order like this would likely cause more problems than it would solve--and the president knows this even if you don't.

It's just not a priority, and frankly it shouldn't be--not with our country circling the drain.

People want to point the finger anywhere but at citizens, but they cast the votes. It doesn't make sense.


Quit expecting the president to win this battle for you. No president will, ever. Read the constitution, for real--not being an asshole--it will clear this up for you. It's pretty obvious how and when this change will come.

It's going to be congress, which means its not happening at least until midterm elections--and probably not until there are a lot less republicans in it (who's views on this are known and firm).



If you want to be foolish and keep blaming everything on Obama because he doesn't do a bunch of unprecedented shit to fix all of your problems--fine. However, you'll do better if you campaign and push to get some pro-pot policy makers into the house.

This brings us back to the point I've been making for at least a year on this forum: It's going to come from congress ultimately. You're just going to have a 1000% better chance of passing this if congress is democratically controlled throughout.

Believe me or don't, it doesn't matter. That is what is going to happen should you choose to accept it or not.

 

[squiggly]

Regardless of who is president the b.s. needs to stop and we the people need to make it stop!

This is exactly the way to look at this. EXACTLY.
Now you're cookin'.

It's the PEOPLE who will stop this, not the president.

The president "has the power", but that is a loaded statement. Certainly he has the power, but what is the trade-off in exercising it? That's what you've left out.

It's not insignificant.

You're trying, with might and main, to force this issue into a black and white characterization.

You can't.

It's grey.

The whole of the world, and everything in it (including politics) is grey.

 

[Darth Fader]

So clear it all up for me. You grow in your yard with no fear of prosecution from what I can see, right? What more do you want "Obama" to do for you than that??? Has he stopped by and personally harassed you about yer grow...or what? :rolleyes:

I would like him to end the possibility, or at least do something significant to move policy in that direction. Not just for me but for the country and all the 2nd and 3rd order effect of the drug war. It would be, as they say, "a big deal". People who thought they were ok w/ local law have had some very rude awakenings, and losing a lot more than a few plants in the process.

Just WHAT is your dog in this fight other than a deep-seated HATE for Obama, ken?

Hatred is not a requirement for calling out duplicitous behavior and disingenuous statements.

Why does Obama get the blame for "policy" violations and a lack of care when it is plain to see that NOBODY in the med world did a fuckin thing to HELP this child either..

Joe commercial grower isn't the leader of the free world.

ALL of em are hypocritical clowns, ken.....not heroes. BOTH sides are full of liars who in it only for themselves....yet you attack Obama while you defend those who blatantly take this into the commercial realm that they've been told not to take it to....and those who are doing NOTHING for any of us except using the laws we passed for their own gain?? We all know how much it costs to produce marijuana...and it isn't THOUSANDS per pound. So who is the lying crook who overcharges and cares nothing about the sick? Big Pharma and Obama?

Greed is universal, this is not news to anyone. But only one side puts people in jail and ruins families lives. They also let money corporate money launderers walk away scot-free. BTW, Marc Emery donated millions of his own money in many different ways, supporting and willingly

Or KushBob and his 150K sq ft warehouse making 7 figures a year selling 2500 pounds of "medicine"?? I can't really see the difference in the EVIL myself...can you?

mmmmmm. Yes, I do.

 

[azmmjadvocates]

Okay man, I'm not going to waste my time. CLEARLY you read none of what I said before OR you have reading comprehension issues.

For the record, having done an exhaustive search I can tell you there is no federal prostitution law. It doesn't exist. The end.

Probably not appropriate for me to lighten the situation ;) but I bet that was some fun exhaustive research lol kinda like exhaustive research on which smoke gets you the hightes lol.. Anyrate this analogy is apples and oranges, congress would never ban prostitution because of their lobby lol.. I'm just sayen..

 

[azmmjadvocates]

Im pretty sure obama is a globalist, just like the rest
and I think he is gonna roll over for the UN
on weed and guns...

"They" dont want folks to have weed or guns..

"They" know weed and guns Weaken "their" Power

I can't say that I am sure you are wrong about the UN, Obama did at least in this last enterview state that things must change, and he also knows he at least has to throw a few bones to the discontent masses.. He knows how Americans feel about the united nations dictating to us, he could have just said "well I think we should change lighten up on things but we have a treaty to follow.. Naa, I think we may lead the way as we have always done, give a not to the UN that they can lighten up on their counties as well... So I'm up in the air on that one, it's a wait and see.

 

[azmmjadvocates]

Harboside, then, you're asserting was operating out of compliance with state law? If that's the case, wouldn't the issue then fall under the purview of the state of California? And if that's the case, as it is with an acquaintance of mine, a hospice nurse who's being prosecuted in Tuolomne County for selling for profit, why hadn't the state taken up the cause? In fact, how is it that now the city of Oakland itself feels it has sufficient stake in this claim to go after the feds themselves?

From the IRS collecting taxes, which implies they accepted the fiscal basis, to the state's stance on this, the whole thing stinks and is declaration, proof positive that Obama is nothing resembling a man of his word. In other words, I don't think I could disagree with your assessment of the situation more. The DoJ is prosecuting whom it damn well pleases, irrespective of whether or not they're following state law.

In the instance of dispensaries the Feds have been clear in memos the dispensaries and the business (IRS raid Harborside) are illigal REGARDLESS of state law. They have been clear they will not target patients and "designated caregivers" following strict state law. The feds have it right, fuck the money making, grow your own. But I know a lot of people disagree with me and I respect that.

Obama just said he wouldn't target recreational users, he didn't say the "Biger fish to fry" weren't the dispensaries. LOL and what is a joke is that he said feds wouldn't target recreational users, they haven't anyway because the federal sentence for just a joint would be impossible for them to follow thru with.. Be funny we could all have one day and all show up to turn ourselves in, that would be funny, perhaps not for the first few people though lol..

 

[azmmjadvocates]

And let's not pretend we don't know the real gig about what folks are doing. Folks are simply growing as much as they can...to sell...for as much as they can make...and have no real interest in helping (that'd be called GIVING) those who are in need their meds for FREE or incredibly reduced prices.

Most folks are just using the med laws because they have no balls (or market) to stand without them. Convenience has never been so convenient!

Yet they WHINE that the Gov't is out to get them and use it all as another slam against Obama? WHEN did the Gov't ever say it was legal to grow weed....especially warehouses full of weed that are sold for mega-profits?

They didn't. Folks just hear what they wanna hear and do what serves their needs the best.

Cali may have a gripe...cus they did have State laws on the books that allowed sales to dispensaries BEFORE any of these "memos" came down the pipe....but Colorado passed 1284 AFTER these memos...aInd with full knowledge that the Fed had already said "no commercial".... so who is truly to blame?

There's a HUGE lack of ethics taking place on BOTH sides of this coin, IMO.

Good comment brother!!! You know I see the CL adds all the time demanding a certain amount for "donations" I do public service announcements in my adds lol, pointing out how that is illegal.. There is already laws on the books that street performers cant ask for a minimum donation, that it's commercial activity, those laws are actually unconstitutional as 1st amendment protection of speech, but this isn't speech it's a medicine and can be regulated.

I get calls all the time from people taking all this WAAAAY to lightly. First thing I usually hear is "the cops set me up" , not saying that doesn't happen but usually as the story unfolds I see some big errors people have done.

I do litterally give away every overage I have, my adds ive put up state there is no minimum donation but they are gladly accepted for costs. I've never been let down yet, some give a little less, some more than I would ask, so it all balances out, and a lot of gratitude as well. You can see it on peoples faces if it's a new patient im meeting, I give them the meds what they give me I dont' even count. My adds usually only last for a few days another need not go up for months.

 

[azmmjadvocates]

When are political pigs lying? Every time their lips move.

That also applies for the the non-resident boy named Barry Soetoro.

Did you hear about how when Romney was running for president all the digging uncovered arcives from the NIxon race against his father about his naturalization and that he would likely be confirmed due to the interpretation "back then" of naturalization. Basically it's a moot point even if he was Barry Soetoro, all due to Romenys dad lol. Now that is funny, and quite the coincidence.

 

[azmmjadvocates]

I would like him to end the possibility, or at least do something significant to move policy in that direction. Not just for me but for the country and all the 2nd and 3rd order effect of the drug war. It would be, as they say, "a big deal". People who thought they were ok w/ local law have had some very rude awakenings, and losing a lot more than a few plants in the process.
.

Spot on.. What is happening a lot lately here is that cops are talking their way into peoples homes forcing people to trim plants hanging (not curred and legal under AZ law) then weighing out the green buds and "confiscating" the overages with no paperwork , no arrests..

Copst talked their way into a patients home the other day when he was gone by saying they had a welfare check call in the home. The wife let the sweet talkers in and they confiscated her husbands bong, hash, weed.. they were asking about guns in the house ect.. So yeah we need the feds to make this shit legal.. People need to educated themselves as well though about how to handle police to put the breaks on them.. They don't get very far with me, but then again i've got my bases covered.

 

[Seamaiden]

In the instance of dispensaries the Feds have been clear in memos the dispensaries and the business (IRS raid Harborside) are illigal REGARDLESS of state law. They have been clear they will not target patients and "designated caregivers" following strict state law. The feds have it right, fuck the money making, grow your own. But I know a lot of people disagree with me and I respect that.

Obama just said he wouldn't target recreational users, he didn't say the "Biger fish to fry" weren't the dispensaries. LOL and what is a joke is that he said feds wouldn't target recreational users, they haven't anyway because the federal sentence for just a joint would be impossible for them to follow thru with.. Be funny we could all have one day and all show up to turn ourselves in, that would be funny, perhaps not for the first few people though lol..

He said, back in '08, that he would not direct attention to anyone who's operating in accordance with state law, including dispensaries, co-ops and clubs, even though federally they're operating outside the law. They're being targeted. Now he's saying he won't target recreational users, but to believe that through that no one will be targeted is.. naive. How will those recreational users make their acquisitions, if not through Philip Morris Co?

 

[azmmjadvocates]

I didn't see his comments on that and don't doubt you, at that time Holder was being named as litigant in the case Santa Cruz v. Mukasey, that's off the top of my head so it may be a different case I'm thinking of from 08... But initially the governments new stance was placed in a ruling by a 9th cir judge to settle the case. From that time forward, things have snowballed as the federal memos state, people growing weed in their yards for kids to pick going to school, massive industrial grows and they made it clear they don't want the industry, which i'm fine with so long as they let me grow my own.

The silly thing is that I'm not aware of the feds going after recreational users anyway lol.. so his comments on that are ridiculous, now don't get me wrong, he has a tremendous power to attack us, but isn't.. They could do a lot of federal stimulus hiring of door kickers like I think Romney wanted to do but he hasn't. Obama cant overturn another presidents signature as well as congress, he just doesn't have that power. He could make my life hell though enforcing it if he wished, if he decided to sick the dogs our politicians here in AZ would love him for it..

I do believe Philip Morris or big pharma will be leading the way as soon as congress invests in them, but hopefully it will be like beer or tobacco and we can grow our own for personal use.. Ive been reading federal memos lately from the DOJ and the writing is on the wall with the talk of how pharmacies and drug manufacturers are under significant regulation.. It's coming.

 

[squiggly]

if he decided to sick the dogs our politicians here in AZ would love him for it..

Ding ding ding ding ding ding ding!

Someone is using their thinker.

The right absolutely pines for their ability to exercise control over the "drug corrupted" masses. The majority of them are legalist Christians and frankly we've crossed the point of no return in terms of admitting that. It's clear as anything ever has been. Ignore it at all of our peril--it's come to that.

If I were to compare Obama to say...Willie Nelson--no question, Obama gets a fucking F minus.

When I compare him to literally anyone with the GOP in their ear he wins a Nobel Prize (one he actually earned).

I understand all the the things said and all the promises made or implied which weren't kept--I honestly appreciate all of that for what it is. Wrong, harmful, bullshit. Signed off on by the president no less.

I won't even attempt to take that from you.

But let's look big picture--what was your viable alternative?

There wasn't one. Frankly this has been the most relaxed president with regard to pot since time immemorial and those are just facts. No one has ever even SAID they would be relaxed on a drug, let alone follow through with it even ever so slightly.

For as much as he's failed in that regard, he's succeeded more than his predecessors.

I understand the frustration--but that's all it is. It's not reality.

Complaining about a situation without offering a solution (or in the absence of any realistic one) is a fool's endeavor and complete waste of time.

 

[Seamaiden]

Obama actually earned that Nobel prize... seriously?

My solution? Vote. Vote out all incumbents unless they're really performing well. Start at the bottom, work your way up.

 

[Darth Fader]

Obama actually earned that Nobel prize... seriously?

My solution? Vote. Vote out all incumbents unless they're really performing well. Start at the bottom, work your way up.

^Yup. Don't listen to squirmy, he should be on the DNC payroll since all he does is carry water for them. Don't expect anything beyond excuses and cheerleading.

With nearly 80% of the general population in support of MMJ and both Carter and Clinton coming out in vocal support of reform, it's an easy move w/ little risk to reschedule MJ to schedule 3 "for research and medical purposes". He never has to run for re-election and would be truly listening to the will of the people.

 

[azmmjadvocates]

^Yup. Don't listen to squirmy, he should be on the DNC payroll since all he does is carry water for them. Don't expect anything beyond excuses and cheerleading.

With nearly 80% of the general population in support of MMJ and both Carter and Clinton coming out in vocal support of reform, it's an easy move w/ little risk to reschedule MJ to schedule 3 "for research and medical purposes". He never has to run for re-election and would be truly listening to the will of the people.

Support of MMJ is a broad statement, those 80% are in support of Dispensaries? Let's take a pool here, I bet a lot are not in favor of dispensaries, perhaps the majority.. I for one am not and am in support of federal raids supporting the governments warnings to them which fall in lockstep with their plans for legalization.. I look at the federal memos from the DOJ, I'm not talking about Hagg, cole, and Ogden, but where they speak of how Pharmacies, doctors etc are under tremendous regulation.. I think people are on pipe dreams if they think WE are going to be the ones allowed to decide how legalization is shaaped, because I KNOW the ball will be thrown to big pharma on the Medical side or the likes of big tobacco on the recreational side..

Why have dispensaries when there is a CVS Pharmacy and Wall-greens on every corner, and that is why they are fighting the dinosaur dispensaries, it's to give congress time to invest in those that have already been given licenses unde "schedule 3" . Prohibition of alcohol ended a long time ago but people are still going to prison for Moon shinning, not drinking moonshine, well unless they are driving or being publicly intoxicated.. Moonshiners, a great show BTW. So the way I see it, unless you are going to grow your own and not sell it such as myself, they growers will just continue to have a bullsey on their heads (as moonshiners did) as legalization move right on past them.

Why doesn't our government just allow them to pay taxes on all that booze made in the woods.. Because the big boy corporate brewers wont' have it.. The same is coming here to our camp as well.. Some here may be whistling a different tune in a few years,, some will be whistling a tune from prison after legalization.. We have to play devels advocate with ourselves, it's easy for us to say how peaceful and wonderful this drug is but look at the arguing and infighting here on these forums.. Look at Laughner who blazed before he went on his killing trip, look at the weed in the pockets of so many criminals as they are busted, we could say those who are violent are just trying to self medicate, but it is a statistic that Im frankly surprised they haven't brought to bare against us, another card Obama could play.. No chance it will not be heavily regulated..

 

[squiggly]

Why doesn't our government just allow them to pay taxes on all that booze made in the woods.. Because the big boy corporate brewers wont' have it..

While this is a part of it--it has more to do with the regulations involved. These didn't pop up because of big alcohol. It's more that big alcohol are the guys who had the resources to comply with regulation, and so they are what is left standing.

While it does suck that this is the case, there must be a line drawn. Producing alcohol is a process which can yield dangerous products if they are not handled properly and the process is not done to an exacting specification.

Frankly we can probably say the same of weed. How many dudes have we seen spraying carcinogens on their shit and looking to harvest the next week?

This isn't a one-sided story. For as much as the regulation suppresses legitimate business, it also does a great deal to aid in consumer protection.

The moonshiners can't get up to code and they know it, this is why they dodge the law--and it's why the law chases them.

Both sides have legitimate concerns, but there have been more than one batch of dangerous moonshine produced and sold in this country--its unfair to paint with one brush the government opposition to that.

 

[azmmjadvocates]

While this is a part of it--it has more to do with the regulations involved. These didn't pop up because of big alcohol. It's more that big alcohol are the guys who had the resources to comply with regulation, and so they are what is left standing.

While it does suck that this is the case, there must be a line drawn. Producing alcohol is a process which can yield dangerous products if they are not handled properly and the process is not done to an exacting specification.

Frankly we can probably say the same of weed. How many dudes have we seen spraying carcinogens on their shit and looking to harvest the next week?

This isn't a one-sided story. For as much as the regulation suppresses legitimate business, it also does a great deal to aid in consumer protection.

The moonshiners can't get up to code and they know it, this is why they dodge the law--and it's why the law chases them.

Both sides have legitimate concerns, but there have been more than one batch of dangerous moonshine produced and sold in this country--its unfair to paint with one brush the government opposition to that.

Look at what corporate America has done with everything regarding regulation, In the start you are correct but I disagree, look at the state Bar exams, Harder and harder to pass.. When I was in my 20's I use to be in the BBQ business and had a moble rig for horse show's ect.. once upon a time, (I'd always pull 100% health inspections), one town my dad had some friend who owned a shop by the wally world and we all know they sell corn and food outside. Across the street there was a MC D's (that didn't have to comply with the regulations they required of Me)and guess what the town required that I had to have a million dollar surety bond, 3 week FBI background check, dr's note I had no communicable diseases ect. before they would give me a permit.. But I could travel 1 mile outside of town and set up by a laundromat without the extra regulation of a mobile business and watch all the cars drive past that already stopped for food.. Fair Trade, Free trade?

Hell look at were Carls Jr started from, on the street.. cant do that today.. All in the name of safety, I got a solution, tell people if you put chlorox in some Booze we will lock you up forever, don't comply with reasonable safety regulations, your done.. Spay chemicals on weed licensed for ornamental plants and we will lock you up forever and hold you responsible for their medical bills..

So no I don't buy that, the big boys stack the cards on their side by placing the bar ever higher to jump over with regulations. They don't have to follow the same regulations many times because they are exempted by some loophole their attorneys write into legislation. It isn't about safety, it's about the excuse of safety and that is a chilling effect on free enterprise.. Sadly though just like the Laughners of the world who give an excuse to the anti gun movement we have the same amongst us doing un-ethical things that give ammo to the prohibitionists.

We can point to any industry that is largely un regulated and point to someone doing something stupid or dangerous, so I disagree, it's about money and control. If what you state is correct then we wouldn't be able to brew our own at home, and we can, it's a matter of SALES.

 

[squiggly]

Look at what corporate America has done with everything regarding regulation, In the start you are correct but I disagree, look at the state Bar exams, Harder and harder to pass..

I agree there is a dichotomy here.

There is definitely one side of it which says there is barrier to entry as a result of reasonable regulation. I think this applies to things like moonshining and growing weed.

There is another side of it which says the barrier to entry is raised arbitrarily beyond a reasonable level simply to stymie competition. I think this applies to industries like construction, landscaping, delivery services, etc.--even farming more and more.

You really don't see a huge amount of this coming from legislation when it comes to alcohol anymore. The dudes on top are on top because they have excellent market penetration, it's all about ad copy for them these days.

Sure it helps to pave a way through congress, and they did plenty of that--but these days it definitely is possible to start a smaller brewing operation and be legitimate about it (though its much more difficult with hard alcohol). People do it all the time.

There is a barrier to entry, but its not insurmountable--and you don't really see big companies trying to crack down on that much (not in the way we see, for instance, Apple and other electronics/telecommunications companies do this).

It's a pretty dead marketplace legislatively.

The stuff you're talking about all happens, but it happens more in oil, and yes in pharma--and I think it's definitely a possibility we'd see that with MJ, which is why I think recreational legalization is the route to go.