Maybe The Coco & Not The Nutes?

[k1w1ed]

Still having issues with East Coast Sour Diesel in test room and wondering if it may be the coco/ lock out that's affecting her and not the nutes I'm feeding?
Would like to clone, flower & run with this strain when healthy but ready to move her out if i make her any more stressed as 4 other strains are ready to flip and Albert Walker is topping @ 81/2' now. Sheesh!
Suggestions appreciated.

Fed three times since last post on Aug 4th,
Increased EC each time from 1.5EC then 1.8EC and last (hesitantly) feeding EC 2.0 =10ml bio-bizz Grow, 5 ml bio-bizz Heaven, 10ml CaMg+
Medium: Royal Gold- Basement in 5 gallon bucket
pH 5.8 each feed and a slurry test of soil just now read 5.8
11 weeks in Veg, 1000w metal Halide 5' above tops.
Temp 18hr day 77
6hr Night 72
Humidity 69%
CO2 controller setting 850 ppm
Strain: East Coast Sour Diesel

 

[tobh]

Have you checked your runoff EC? Could be lock out as you stated. Experienced similar symptoms not long ago and my run off was ridiculously high.

 

[k1w1ed]

Have you checked your runoff EC? Could be lock out as you stated. Experienced similar symptoms not long ago and my run off was ridiculously high.

No, I have just added some 001 ppm water to some of the soil & waiting to check pH levels..
Need to feed tonight so thinking about dropping EC back to 1.5 just to give her something while waiting on some advice here. Want to flush tonight? As a last resort flushing has worked on other strains? Was hoping to ease it back to healthy somehow though?

 

[tobh]

Your pH is on point, I wouldn't be so concerned with that. The issue with coco is you can't just flush it with straight water, it shocks the rhizosphere. You want to feed around a 1/4 dose for your flushes mid grow, so around 0.8-1.0 EC would be good.

Check your runoff, I suspect you'll have a significantly high EC coming out. Once you know what that is, you will want to flush them with 1.0 EC water until the runoff matches the input solution. Should take 3-5 times the volume of the container they're in. Once you have the runoff at 1.0 EC you can resume normal feedings again and stay on top of it. Will make a huge difference and they should recover fine over the next week or so.

 

[k1w1ed]

Your pH is on point, I wouldn't be so concerned with that. The issue with coco is you can't just flush it with straight water, it shocks the rhizosphere. You want to feed around a 1/4 dose for your flushes mid grow, so around 0.8-1.0 EC would be good.

Check your runoff, I suspect you'll have a significantly high EC coming out. Once you know what that is, you will want to flush them with 1.0 EC water until the runoff matches the input solution. Should take 3-5 times the volume of the container they're in. Once you have the runoff at 1.0 EC you can resume normal feedings again and stay on top of it. Will make a huge difference and they should recover fine over the next week or so.

Sounds solid, & sort of where I was heading also. cheers.

 

[k1w1ed]

Sounds solid, & sort of where I was heading also. cheers.

Do you bring your ph down to 5.8 when flushing coco @ 1.0EC. Coco is new to me and Thinking I'm just going to end up locking out nutes again if not adjusted from 6.5 pH coming out of my well? Which was good for soil

 

[Seamaiden]

I personally like to let pH range, including in coir. I've also found that, generally, 6.0 is the sweet spot if you want to keep the pH pegged. Otherwise I recommend a general range of 5.8-6.2.

I'm seeing a few issues, possibly caused by pH, possibly caused by lockout. Mostly I see a Mg- on the older leaves. Doing a foliar application of MgSO4 (Epsom salt) at the rate of 1/4tsp/gal water will tell you within a few hours.

But, I also see yellowing on the new growth that causes me to wonder about S. The thing is, the Epsom salt actually gives you *more* S than Mg. So it'd be what can help you here with that, too.

Do you bring your ph down to 5.8 when flushing coco @ 1.0EC. Coco is new to me and Thinking I'm just going to end up locking out nutes again if not adjusted from 6.5 pH coming out of my well? Which was good for soil

Are you measuring the EC of your media at all? Slurry or run-off test. If you're feeding hot every time you water, then you need to stop doing that and start doing quarter or eighth strength feedings.

 

[k1w1ed]

I personally like to let pH range, including in coir. I've also found that, generally, 6.0 is the sweet spot if you want to keep the pH pegged. Otherwise I recommend a general range of 5.8-6.2.

I'm seeing a few issues, possibly caused by pH, possibly caused by lockout. Mostly I see a Mg- on the older leaves. Doing a foliar application of MgSO4 (Epsom salt) at the rate of 1/4tsp/gal water will tell you within a few hours.

But, I also see yellowing on the new growth that causes me to wonder about S. The thing is, the Epsom salt actually gives you *more* S than Mg. So it'd be what can help you here with that, too.

Are you measuring the EC of your media at all? Slurry or run-off test. If you're feeding hot every time you water, then you need to stop doing that and start doing quarter or eighth strength feedings.

Cheers, I fed last night with 1/4 strength and did a runoff EC test. 2.2 EC answers my question to self of what I was doing to cause this.
Followed tobh suggestion last night and flushed until EC runoff came out close as I could get it to 1.0 EC ( 560ppm on my .5 tester) the pH reading of runoff was 6.1 so happy with that.
Sound advise on quarter strength feedings ! Way over fed when they were being under fed & this ECSD did not take it as well as Albert walker and willy jack did. Going to back off to around 1.2 EC with all of them I think and transition into bio-bizz bloom before I flip at the beginning of next week.
I will take your advise and raise pH up a couple of points to 6.0 also. What would you recommend flowering EC to be?
Appreciate your time!

 

[Michal]

I also agree with feeding within a pH range. I've never seen a reason to feed coir above 1.2EC.

You're watering every few days? Is this determined by how fast they dry out? 2 monthes veg should have filled up a 5 gallon with roots enough to water daily.

 

[tobh]

That's an excellent point. In coir, you can water daily, no worries of overwatering and in fact your ladies will love you all the more for it. Waterings help pull new oxygen down into the root zone and also help reduce salt build up, hence wanting to ensure you're getting 10%-20% runoff every time. That in itself will keep your medium EC down where it needs to be.

 

[k1w1ed]

That's an excellent point. In coir, you can water daily, no worries of overwatering and in fact your ladies will love you all the more for it. Waterings help pull new oxygen down into the root zone and also help reduce salt build up, hence wanting to ensure you're getting 10%-20% runoff every time. That in itself will keep your medium EC down where it needs to be.

I feed when the pots are light...that Is now about half way through each 18hr day

 

[k1w1ed]

I personally like to let pH range, including in coir. I've also found that, generally, 6.0 is the sweet spot if you want to keep the pH pegged. Otherwise I recommend a general range of 5.8-6.2.

I'm seeing a few issues, possibly caused by pH, possibly caused by lockout. Mostly I see a Mg- on the older leaves. Doing a foliar application of MgSO4 (Epsom salt) at the rate of 1/4tsp/gal water will tell you within a few hours.

But, I also see yellowing on the new growth that causes me to wonder about S. The thing is, the Epsom salt actually gives you *more* S than Mg. So it'd be what can help you here with that, too.

Are you measuring the EC of your media at all? Slurry or run-off test. If you're feeding hot every time you water, then you need to stop doing that and start doing quarter or eighth strength feedings.

So lights have been on for 2 1/2 hrs And I went in to do foliar misting with Epson Salts as suggested. The pictures show a new issue since flushing last night that I have not seen before.
Most of the old and new growth leaves on top now have very ribbed and wrinkly upper epidermis and cuticle issues with some margins of the leaves curling up like they are to close to lights and some leaf margins curling down like toxicity issues. They look like an elderly persons skin on a Florida beach... If that makes sense?
Should I wait another day or so before foliar misting to see if this is going to stabilize?
Once again I appreciate the time & advice.

 

[Mr.X]

DUDE.... FLUSH THE SHIT OUT OF YOUR coco !!! You said 11, thats ELEVEN weeks of veg if i understood right ? Almost 3 months ? Thats a whole grow cycle practically. How tall are your ceilings ? 14 ft high ? The pix are indoors if im not mistaken. WHY ? Anyways you dont mention ever flushing, your ph is spot on, but you have TOXIC salt build up. Unless youf growing in 150gl geopots. Flush the media with 3× the amount of soil your container holds, if its a 5gl container flush with @ least 15gl of water, not straight h20 though. Put 5ml of epsom salts per gl. If you can add a enzyme like hygrozyme or biocozyme to aid in the uptake of whats left. Definitely you have a calmag deficiency going on. Look at the petioles they're eggplant PURPLE, probably hard almost woody stems, leaves about 2 get chlorotic. After you flush incorporate fulvic acid to your additives to chelate all the excess nutes. And... and.... flip ghem already. Like... what are yoj waiting for ? A sign from Bob Marley !!!

 

[tobh]

DUDE.... FLUSH THE SHIT OUT OF YOUR coco !!! You said 11, thats ELEVEN weeks of veg if i understood right ? Almost 3 months ? Thats a whole grow cycle practically. How tall are your ceilings ? 14 ft high ? The pix are indoors if im not mistaken. WHY ? Anyways you dont mention ever flushing, your ph is spot on, but you have TOXIC salt build up. Unless youf growing in 150gl geopots. Flush the media with 3× the amount of soil your container holds, if its a 5gl container flush with @ least 15gl of water, not straight h20 though. Put 5ml of epsom salts per gl. If you can add a enzyme like hygrozyme or biocozyme to aid in the uptake of whats left. Definitely you have a calmag deficiency going on. Look at the petioles they're eggplant PURPLE, probably hard almost woody stems, leaves about 2 get chlorotic. After you flush incorporate fulvic acid to your additives to chelate all the excess nutes. And... and.... flip ghem already. Like... what are yoj waiting for ? A sign from Bob Marley !!!

he did flush, here's the post where he discusses such.

Cheers, I fed last night with 1/4 strength and did a runoff EC test. 2.2 EC answers my question to self of what I was doing to cause this.
Followed tobh suggestion last night and flushed until EC runoff came out close as I could get it to 1.0 EC ( 560ppm on my .5 tester) the pH reading of runoff was 6.1 so happy with that.
Sound advise on quarter strength feedings ! Way over fed when they were being under fed & this ECSD did not take it as well as Albert walker and willy jack did. Going to back off to around 1.2 EC with all of them I think and transition into bio-bizz bloom before I flip at the beginning of next week.
I will take your advise and raise pH up a couple of points to 6.0 also. What would you recommend flowering EC to be?
Appreciate your time!

Otherwise Mr.X has a point. Flip once they're healthy again. A foliar will help with getting them some Mg until you get the issue figured out.

 

[Mr.X]

he did flush, here's the post where he discusses such.



Otherwise Mr.X has a point. Flip once they're healthy again. A foliar will help with getting them some Mg until you get the issue figured out.

Yeah i caught that he flushed, but did he flush with the right amount though? But your absolutely right with the foliar too, sprayNgrow is superamazing. You hit M and you go back 1/2N hr later and the leaves are givin you a standing ovation incredible stuff. GH diamond nectar, fulvic is so fine you can foliar feed it too and get good results. But really... i just dont see why you would keep veging for such a long period, you would just be lookin for troubles to arise in 1 way or another. Unless you hsve somewhat limited space or restrictions and want to grow 1 massive TREE. Wich in any case all one would need is a bigger container, good pruning, topping, Lst, monster cropping techniques and lights !!! Lets not 4get bout that.... LMAO... man just flip them already and charge it to the muthafuckin game dude. Tax right off.. learnin curve. PEACE !!! im unwatchin... jjjjjjj

 

[k1w1ed]

DUDE.... FLUSH THE SHIT OUT OF YOUR coco !!! You said 11, thats ELEVEN weeks of veg if i understood right ? Almost 3 months ? Thats a whole grow cycle practically. How tall are your ceilings ? 14 ft high ? The pix are indoors if im not mistaken. WHY ? Anyways you dont mention ever flushing, your ph is spot on, but you have TOXIC salt build up. Unless youf growing in 150gl geopots. Flush the media with 3× the amount of soil your container holds, if its a 5gl container flush with @ least 15gl of water, not straight h20 though. Put 5ml of epsom salts per gl. If you can add a enzyme like hygrozyme or biocozyme to aid in the uptake of whats left. Definitely you have a calmag deficiency going on. Look at the petioles they're eggplant PURPLE, probably hard almost woody stems, leaves about 2 get chlorotic. After you flush incorporate fulvic acid to your additives to chelate all the excess nutes. And... and.... flip ghem already. Like... what are yoj waiting for ? A sign from Bob Marley !!!

Bob told me couple months ago " dis smaller room got 16' cieling mon so let them be trees" lol. Are 10' plants indoors unheard of here? I should start a journal when my computer illiteracy improves.
That is solid suggestion to flush, cheers. That is what I was thinking also. With solid advise from tobh last night I flushed with 15gals untill runoff tested the same 1.0 EC that I put in and runoff pH at tested at 6.1

 

[k1w1ed]

Took me that long to type a reply so trying to catch up now.

 

[k1w1ed]

Yeah i caught that he flushed, but did he flush with the right amount though? But your absolutely right with the foliar too, sprayNgrow is superamazing. You hit M and you go back 1/2N hr later and the leaves are givin you a standing ovation incredible stuff. GH diamond nectar, fulvic is so fine you can foliar feed it too and get good results. But really... i just dont see why you would keep veging for such a long period, you would just be lookin for troubles to arise in 1 way or another. Unless you hsve somewhat limited space or restrictions and want to grow 1 massive TREE. Wich in any case all one would need is a bigger container, good pruning, topping, Lst, monster cropping techniques and lights !!! Lets not 4get bout that.... LMAO... man just flip them already and charge it to the muthafuckin game dude. Tax right off.. learnin curve. PEACE !!! im unwatchin... jjjjjjj

Going to flip if she

 

[k1w1ed]

Going to flip if she

Shit wrong button!
Flipping room on Monday If she gets healthy again or not, On the verge of being put outside though hermies out next to other strains that I have been trying with same nutes media and environment (Albert walker is twice her size) that are healthy and ready to flip. Agree, sort of looking for troubles to arise. not intentionally mistreating though. Easier to work it all out in this room where running 7 strains at a time in same environment as bigger rooms.
Anywho... Foliar with epson salts tomorrow? Or would it be better to hit today 5 hrs into 18?
Thanks for advice and I will look into sprayNgrow

 

[k1w1ed]

Yeah i caught that he flushed, but did he flush with the right amount though? But your absolutely right with the foliar too, sprayNgrow is superamazing. You hit M and you go back 1/2N hr later and the leaves are givin you a standing ovation incredible stuff. GH diamond nectar, fulvic is so fine you can foliar feed it too and get good results. But really... i just dont see why you would keep veging for such a long period, you would just be lookin for troubles to arise in 1 way or another. Unless you hsve somewhat limited space or restrictions and want to grow 1 massive TREE. Wich in any case all one would need is a bigger container, good pruning, topping, Lst, monster cropping techniques and lights !!! Lets not 4get bout that.... LMAO... man just flip them already and charge it to the muthafuckin game dude. Tax right off.. learnin curve. PEACE !!! im unwatchin... jjjjjjj

Agree, it ain't all about the money in this room though bro. Peace