Medical Pot Ineffective as Acute Pain Treatment

[lequebecfume]

Medical Pot Ineffective as Acute Pain Treatment

Monday, June 23, 2008; 12:00 AM

MONDAY, June 23 (HealthDay News) -- Oral cannabis (a form of medical marijuana) was ineffective in treating certain types of acute pain and actually increased sensitivity to some other kinds of discomfort, say researchers at the Medical University of Vienna, Austria.

Their study included 18 healthy women who were given oral cannabis or a placebo. The women were then evaluated for heat and electrical pain thresholds in skin areas that had induced sunburn. This is an accepted method of assessing response to acute pain.

"The surprising result of our study was the absence of any kind of analgesic activity of THC-standardized cannabis extract on experimentally induced pain using well-established human model procedures," study author Dr. Birgit Kraft said in a prepared statement. "Our results also seem to support the impression that high doses of cannabinoids may even cause increased sensitivity in certain pain conditions."

The study is published in the July issue of the journalAnesthesiology.

Previous research has suggested that cannabis and tetrahydrocannabinol (THC -- the main psychoactive component of marijuana) may help ease chronic pain in cancer patients, spinal cord injury patients, and people with multiple sclerosis. There have been inconsistent findings about the effects on acute pain.

This new study's findings about oral cannabis and acute pain are seemingly conclusive, according to the researchers.

"From comparisons with previous clinical data, the lack of pain relief from the cannabis dosage and oral administration in our study cannot be considered the result of inadequate dosage or insufficient intestinal absorption," Kraft said. "The high levels of THC detected in the blood of our subjects as well as the occurrence of typical THC side effects argue for sufficient availability, and thus we draw the conclusion that THC was not effective in treating acute pain."

However, cannabis may remain a viable treatment option for certain types of chronic pain.

"Pain is a very complex and subjective phenomena," Kraft said. "Chronic pain has not only been shown to lead to changes in peripheral and central neural processing, but also to be associated with psychosocial problems, physical disorders, and functional disabilities. Recent studies have indicated that cannabis can be effective in treating certain types of chronic pain and helping patients to cope by improving quality of life."

More information

The National Pain Foundation has more about marijuana and pain.


SOURCE: American Society of Anesthesiologists, news release, June 23, 2008

 

[Husbandnwife420]

hum verry interisting:dull

 

[Sativaindica]

I would be very interested to see the reports of this study, as very little can be drawn from a newspaper/magazine article. For a start i doubt they actually took the time to apply the specific types of cannaboids that target pain receptors.

2nd, i dont trust SHIT that aint peer reveiwed.

 

[Smoking Gun]

"The surprising result of our study was the absence of any kind of analgesic activity of THC-standardized cannabis extract on experimentally induced pain using well-established human model procedures," study author Dr. Birgit Kraft said in a prepared statement. "Our results also seem to support the impression that high doses of cannabinoids may even cause increased sensitivity in certain pain conditions."

This right here is the problem with their study. This is actually the problem with just about every pharmaceutical drugs meant to act as Cannabis. THC is one of about 66 or so cannabinoids that interact with our bodies. The only way to get all of these cannabinoids is with real Cannabis. I am sure that if this study was done with whole Cannabis the findings would have been different.

I do however agree with the findings that suggest too many cannabinoids may make a person more sensitive to pain.

 

[Steele Savage]

As stated above by Smoking Gun , many other cannabinoids go into tha make up of how they relieve pain , besides THC . For serious pain management , oral is tha way to go ...
This paper , written by Dr. Fry holds significant value to many patients , including myself :



One thang I noticed when still workin' in tha tattoo community was that fer minor skin irritation (tattooing) , smoking before would actually increase tha pain . Oral , imho , would be tha way to go , as it is a much more thorough application .


Steele

 

[Sativaindica]

As you study suggest, the oral comsuption work most effective due to the resulting cannaboid produced onec passed through the liver. where as with weed it becomes alot more difficult to tell which is more prodominent in the shit you got, THC, CBN or CBD.

Oral def allows for a more effective approach in reducing this control factor down to a single cannaboid, which its clear we all agree is the reason why this study is an epic PHAIL.

 

[Smoking Gun]

As you study suggest, the oral comsuption work most effective due to the resulting cannaboid produced onec passed through the liver. where as with weed it becomes alot more difficult to tell which is more prodominent in the shit you got, THC, CBN or CBD.

Oral def allows for a more effective approach in reducing this control factor down to a single cannaboid, which its clear we all agree is the reason why this study is an epic PHAIL.

Oral sprays do not have to be only one compound. You can certainly take whole Cannabis and make an oral spray. You simply need to make a tincture with it and then put that in a little spray bottle.

Also you could simply but your whole cannabis in pill form. Those work really well. I knew a patient who could not smoke so he took all of his MMJ in pill form. He gave me a few of those one day. Three of those pills and 3 hits lasted me all day until it was time for a bed time bowl.

 

[Sativaindica]

Ja man, what i said was that this worked effective becuase, unlike smoking, when you eat and it passes through your liver producing the required cannaboid, you are guranteed said cannaboid (hydroxy Eleven), instead of THC, CBN etc.

How much would you administer each pill? do you just grind it up, or make some ice 1st?

 

[Smoking Gun]

Ja man, what i said was that this worked effective becuase, unlike smoking, when you eat and it passes through your liver producing the required cannaboid, you are guranteed said cannaboid (hydroxy Eleven), instead of THC, CBN etc.

How much would you administer each pill? do you just grind it up, or make some ice 1st?

The flowers were ground up and baked (I believe the temp used was 280 F for about 10-15 min, I am not totally sure of the temp or time, sorry) to kill the chlorophyll. Then the ground up baked flower was placed into medium sized capsules. I believe the 3 pills all added up to about 100mg.

The thing is with smoked cannabis it still gets into the blood stream and gets filtered through the liver. But I did misunderstand what you were trying to say. It makes more sense now. I do believe edible Cannabis is only good for some people, I have met people with incredible tolerance for edible Cannabis. There are also those people who need Cannabis to be able to eat, but if it is in edible form, how are they going to be able to take their meds?

I think efficacy relies upon the individual. Every person has a different chemical make up so the addition of any other chemicals, good or bad, will react differently with each person.

 

[Sativaindica]

Thats an interesting approach, however, from a clinical stand point, i dont think they would accept this. One thing wich studies are looking for is to get a positive response while using specific techniques that reduce any phsychoactive effects. Im assuming that these patients still got high from these pills?

Indeed, even as the study suggests, dosing becomes very difficult. Even with set groups the tolerance levels will differ, as you said. But could you imagine the difference between a 1st time user and a recreational user for 10 years. I think 10-1 would be a sufficient ratio for pills required.

 

[Smoking Gun]

Thats an interesting approach, however, from a clinical stand point, i dont think they would accept this. One thing wich studies are looking for is to get a positive response while using specific techniques that reduce any phsychoactive effects. Im assuming that these patients still got high from these pills?

Even removing psychoactive properties means removing certain compounds, no longer making it whole Cannabis. So I do not believe science will ever be able to create a medicine that can exactly duplicate the effects of whole Cannabis. Not to mention, the psychoactive effect is what certain patients require to aid them. So whether science accepts this really isn't the point. The point still is whole Cannabis is the best form for patients to use.

And I guess you could say the people who took the whole Cannabis pills got "high". There were some psychoactive properties, but nothing like smoking fresh Cannabis. The physical effects were the most prominent while the "high" really was subtle enough to actually be forgotten about. Although I do agree that if a person who never even took a puff in their life used these pills they would get high. But for this person I also would recommend a much lower dose. They would still get the benefits they need, without being uncontrollably high.

Indeed, even as the study suggests, dosing becomes very difficult. Even with set groups the tolerance levels will differ, as you said. But could you imagine the difference between a 1st time user and a recreational user for 10 years. I think 10-1 would be a sufficient ratio for pills required.

As I said above, I certainly agree that a first time user would have a different reaction. But the dosage would be far different. Think of when you first smoked pot, a few hits would last hours, and even sativas would knock you on your ass. Well under medical supervision the dosage would be only a hit or two from a pipe, or maybe something around 25mg or even 15mg with the whole Cannabis pills. And since every person, regardless of dose, will react different they have the ability to judge whether they need more or not with no worry of a side effect more than being a little high. Who knows they might like being a little high anyway.

 

[Sativaindica]

Even removing psychoactive properties means removing certain compounds, no longer making it whole Cannabis. So I do not believe science will ever be able to create a medicine that can exactly duplicate the effects of whole Cannabis. Not to mention, the psychoactive effect is what certain patients require to aid them. So whether science accepts this really isn't the point. The point still is whole Cannabis is the best form for patients to use.

I agree entirely, however, unfortunetly as you are mots likely aware, there is currently a war on weed. THis war makes an attempt to belittle Cannabis as a mere street drug used by kids and students as a stepping stone to harder drugs. With that comes the stupid belief in anything that gets you high is bad.

Therefore, in the studies which i have read, Toxicity is also a variable that must be controled to advance further in clinical studies, especially thise in which humans are used. What makes this even more bullshit is when you consider other forms of treatment in which Cannabis could be a replacement for. Like Chemotharapy which pretty much destroys parts of the body, or even pain relief pills given out by doctors. Shit a few weeks ago i got this pill for pains in my ches, the shit didnt even get rid of the pain. shit juts got me so wasted i forget i had pain.

Where is the lack of toxicity in these forms of treatment? Im sure youd agree that getting a little high pwns having to sit through 4 hours of cheotherapy, yet, when accessing any of these clinical studies, the medical boards will always scrutinize that which gives us the most pleasure. While in doing so, ignoring any positive benefits proven.

Well under medical supervision the dosage would be only a hit or two from a pipe, or maybe something around 25mg or even 15mg with the whole Cannabis pills. And since every person, regardless of dose, will react different they have the ability to judge whether they need more or not with no worry of a side effect more than being a little high. Who knows they might like being a little high anyway.

The problem is tho, that any neutralization of pain receptors would be a dose dependent one. with prolonged usage, everyone would be expected to increase their intake to match the building up of tolerance levels. Once again, not unheard of in most traditional forms of medication, just another bullshit excuse for them to reject it :(

I with you, who cares if they get a little high, shit id rather have that than 3 months of chemo.

Think of when you first smoked pot, a few hits would last hours, and even sativas would knock you on your ass

man i just came back from 7 months in singapore and Hazes are knocking me the fuck out

 

[Smoking Gun]

I agree entirely, however, unfortunetly as you are mots likely aware, there is currently a war on weed. THis war makes an attempt to belittle Cannabis as a mere street drug used by kids and students as a stepping stone to harder drugs. With that comes the stupid belief in anything that gets you high is bad.

This is the biggest hurdle in making MMJ a commonplace remedy. There seems to be plenty of medical professionals willing to testify that Cannabis is or should be considered effective medicine. And it certainly is encouraging to see these people attempt to bring Cannabis medicines to the general public, but it also these same people who must dispel the myths governments have surrounded marijuana with. So instead of trying to remove the psychoactive properties, embrace what the whole plant offers and prove that it works. But we shall see. Science often thinks it can do better than Mother Nature, I happen not to agree.

 

[The Joker]

My wife suffers from Chronic pain due to several herniated discs. Diet, yoga, and pilates works wonders to keep her from being bedridden. She smokes to take the edge off the pain since she prefers not to take Vicodin.

But when it's really bad, she takes it as it really works better than MJ or hash. Eating budder/pot makes her so stoned she can't function and find the experience as uncomfortable as the pain.

Hash relaxes her muscle spasms better than smoked weed. But as a pain reliever, in her case, it's pretty mild and less effective. So as a daily treatment she smokes, in the case of severe pain, she takes the Vicodin. It's better than taking Vicodin every day.

That's anecdotal but our experience. MMJ is good for some things, but it's not a cure all. Finding the right strain is key.

I have a friend for whom trainwreck removes wicked headaches. No other weed works.

 

[Budhog]

I'll make sure to read the study while I am smoking a bowl tonight as I alleviate my pain enough to get a few hours of sleep without throwing up (How's that for a stoney run-on sentence?)

 

[Tripod]

Hello All . Regarding the first study mentioned , 18 women is hardly enough test subjects for a definative study . At least hundreds , if not thousands of subjects in both a test group and a control group are the only way to determine effectiveness and rule out results influenced by abnormal subjects ( anybody remember those kids that ruined the bell curve in high school ? lol ) or outside conditions . Its like trying to tell the percentage of the population with blue or brown eyes by oberving 18 . As for mm's effect on acute and chronic pain , both involve inflammation of affected tissues and , to my experience there isn't anything better that doesn't have side effects that make me really ill . Add mm's antispasmodic effects and there isn't anything that works better . Sure there are flare ups that require narcotics but were it not for mm , I would be on narcotics 24/7 and would quickly build a tolerance to the opiods requiring higher doses and long term use which lead to addiction and withdrawl . With mm , if I build a tolerance I switch strains or forms ( bud , hash , bho , etc ) . Blessings to all .