ftwendy
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https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/dudded-stunted-and-runted-plants.63709/
Smells like virus to me...
Smells like virus to me...
soserthc1
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Congratulations brother meeks much appreciate your knowledge over the years all the best to you and your new degree ever need anything hollar
blessings
blessings
Mogrow
- 1,695
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Congratulations nMeeks. u do us proud..
cam laude = top dog..
cam laude = top dog..
Darth Fader
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Congrats!
dankemhunter
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Meeks I have literally read every word from page 1 to here! Great stuff... I appreciate what you do.. Hope to one day be on your level. Now for your ingredients. I see you just use what you stated above. Where do you purchase all of them? I am on a budget and you say it is all very cheap! Happy Farmin'
dankemhunter
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A couple more questions. I am cloning GG4 in rapid rooters right now. They are just starting to pop roots. How often are you watering your young veg babies. Also, you are running the 740ppm the whole way through no tweaking?
jlr42024
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I must add my congrats nmeeks! You were one of the first farmers here to help me and answer anything I asked and I truly thank you for that! It's a fact you've improved countless gardens and for that we all owe you a huge Thank You! Here's to your future and congrats again! Takes it easy nmeeks
pdxfire
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Congratulations Meeks! Can't wait to see what you do with that degree. Please let us know (or just drop us some clues). Peace.
nMEEKS
Horticulturist
Supporter
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I'm so glad to hear you got so much out of the log DH, sometimes I wondered if it had fallen too deep in the list to be found by new readers, I'm happy that's not the case yet! Don't miss my other previous logs if you haven't already checked them out, especially my first WiFi log, since it starts off with photos and details of the grow room being built!
To answer your question of where I got my nutrients. . . I was lucky enough to have access to giant supplies of all these nutrients and more at my school's greenhouse ranges and so no one would mind when I took comparatively small amounts home at the end of a work day every once and a while. So my nutrients were basically free, if you don't count my tuition costs ;)
Now that I am up in Washington State, I will have to find a source to buy them just like you are looking for. Since your question provoked me, here is what I found on google, shopping more for the right product than the right price, you are welcome to bargain hunt however you like, with these manufacturers/products in mind.
Calcium Nitrate: I highly recommend YaraLiva Greenhouse/Solution Grade, here is a distributor I just found through google, I'm sure there are plenty more. This distributor also offers smaller sizes that they have done with their own custom packaging to make it easier for a smaller grower to not over-buy. I'm giving you links for the 50lb bags that are straight from the manufacturer without being repackaged, but if you are a smaller grower (2 lights or less), or you don't want to jump in head first on the deep end, I would recommend getting just the 5lb containers to start. https://customhydronutrients.com/ze...trate-greenhouse-grade-50-pound-bag-p-61.html
MonoPotassiumPhosphate: I highly recommend Haifa, here is the same distributor I just found through google, I'm sure there are plenty more. https://customhydronutrients.com/ze...=1_45_61_182&zenid=uh1om4cbm5hvuhen8ll0h64ug2
Magnesium Sulfate: I do not have a preferred manufacturer for Epsom Salts, just make sure it is horticulture or greenhouse grade, so there are not harmful impurities. Here is the option available from the distributor I've been linking for the other nutrients, again I'm sure there are plenty of other distributors available. https://customhydronutrients.com/ze...Path=1_48_31&zenid=uh1om4cbm5hvuhen8ll0h64ug2
Iron Chelate EDDHA: I do not have a preferred manufacturer for Fe Chelate, but make sure it is EDDHA form, since their are a number of different chelating agents available and not all are created equal. You will also need much less of this nutrient than the first three I linked, which is why this link is for a 1 pound option, while the others were 50lb bags. You can choose to get smaller orders of the first three ingredients, but I would not get a larger order of Iron, since you need so little just go for the smallest size available. https://customhydronutrients.com/ze...ath=1_50_100&zenid=uh1om4cbm5hvuhen8ll0h64ug2
M.O.S.T. (Mix of Soluble Traces): I have used the mix of micro nutrients from JR Peters that they call MOST, but there are a number of other options that are identical in every way. Peters Professional has their version called S.T.E.M (Soluble Trace Elements Mix) that is the exact same thing for the same price and happens to be carried by the distributor I've already been linking you to. Just like the Iron, you won't need much of this compared to the three main parts of the recipe. https://customhydronutrients.com/ze...h=1_50_51_32&zenid=uh1om4cbm5hvuhen8ll0h64ug2
I hope this helps get you started.
For your other questions, I water all my plants based on need, trying to avoid overwatering/wet-feet, but never allowing the media to reach a point that would be considered 'dry'. Coco coir is nice because its difficult to over water, which allows me to operate on the slightly wetter end, rather than running on the drier end like you need to in soil to prevent low O2 conditions or soil born disease. For young clones and seedlings, their water uptake can fluctuate quickly as they begin to establish bigger root systems and have more foliage surface area for water transpiration. Since it can be tough to gauge how much water your plant is using on a daily basis during this early transition phase, I personally prefer to use sub-irrigation to achieve the perfect level of substrate moisture, regardless of how much was used since the last irrigation. You can use fancy sub-irrigation trays and get it working automatically with pumps and drains on timers, or you can do it the ghetto way by hand, which is what I do since I'm not dealing with too many seedlings/clones at a time. To sub-irrigate by hand, you simple need a tray or trough of some kind that can hold water up to roughly 3-4" without spilling, and has a big enough footprint that you can get all your pots in at one time next to each other. Simply put your pots into the tray, mix your nutrients in a bucket on the side, then poor the nutrient solution into the tray up to about 2-3"(not into the pots from above). At first the nutrient solution level will drop rapidly as the solution fills the pores in the substrate up to the level of the solution on the outside of the pot, but dont take the pots out right away when it seems like the absorption slows down. The solution will actually travel up through the media (using adhesion and cohesion properties) and fully hydrate the substrate up to the top of the pot, higher than the solution level on the outside of the pot in the tray. This part can take anywhere from 10 minutes to 40 minutes, depending on your substrate of choice and how much moisture was still in the substrate from the previous irrigation. You can add more nutrient solution to the tray at any time if it gets below 1". You will see the top of your substrate start to glisten from being wet when its done and you can remove the pots from the tray, let them gravity drain (sitting in their normal flat position) and put them back in their homes to continue growing. Sub-irrigation can be used for the entire crop cycle, but can become more cumbersome when you move into larger pots or are dealing with heavier/less mobile plants. I like to use sub-irrigation early on when its tough to get a predictable and stable irrigation cycle, then switch to automated drip irrigation that runs drain to waste once the plants are a bit more established and routine.
Feeding I do not adjust for the most part. Some of my plants show me they want more with minor deficiencies, so I bump them up a bit by adjusting the amount of water I use for my recipe. If I want my nutrients to be ~11% stronger, then I just add the standard recipe amounts to 0.9 gallons instead of 1 gallon, making it ~11% more concentrated (on a larger practical scale, this would look like me weighing enough nutrients from the recipe for 20 gallons of water, but adding that amount of nutrient to only 18 gallons). The same is true for my young seedlings/clones but in reverse, I might weigh out the recipe amount of nutrients for 18 gallons, but add that amount of nutrient to 20 gallons of water, thus creating a 90% concentration solution. Sometimes I go as low as 60% solution when just introducing nutrients to a clone or seedling that I'm afraid might be extra sensitive (perhaps a new strain I've never worked with or highly valued seeds I don't want to risk stressing), but generally I have not seen any problems starting things off with close to full strength right from the get go.
Thanks again for the kind words, and best of luck with your grow!
New things for me are in the works Farmers, might still be a month or two before I start posting new pictures, but look forward to seeing me around again soon with new content and some new rooms!
-Meeks :cigar:
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dankemhunter
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Amazing information Meeks.. Unfortunately I just purchased bulk of hydroponic research veg+bloom dirty. If you get time, will you take a look at the ingredients and tell me what you think if the products? It's a one part salt. I've been hearing and seeing great results with it. Depending how my plants enjoy it, I will continue using it. When I get a little chunk of Change I am going to purchase your salt recipe and run a side by side!
nMEEKS
Horticulturist
Supporter
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Haha, my bad for not getting back to you right away before you picked up something else, This log had been kind of dead for a few months so I wasn't checking for notifications on a daily basis. All I can say about the company/product you just mentioned (Hydro Research V+B Dirty) is that the owner is getting rich off his ass. $1,800 for a 100lb bag. . . . holy shit thats over-priced. I think the stuff I linked you to (which is going to be practically identical, just not premixed) might add up to like $200 max, and thats for over 150lbs of dry salts that would last most small growers a lifetime. Basically it seems like you have found the one exception to the rule of dry salts being cheaper than liquid nutrients, since this dry salt company is even greedier with their mark-up than any liquid nutrient company I've ever seen! I hope the results work for you, since with that price tag you could be using any company on the market for the same or less money. Looking more closely at the recipe itself, your plants should be happy for the most part, I like the look of the Ca:Mg ratio of 4:1 and I like that if you check their ingredients list at the bottom, everything can be found through the site I previously linked you to, but for much cheaper since it hasn't been mixed into an all-in-one for you yet. Here are their ingredients:
"DERIVED FROM:Calcium Gluconate, Calcium Chloride, Calcium Acetate, Calcium Nitrate, Magnesium Gluconate, Magnesium Sulfate, Potassium Nitrate, Potassium Sulfate, Potassium Silicate, MonoPotassium Phosphate, Borax, Iron EDDHA, Iron EDTA, Manganese EDTA, Ammonium Molybdate, Zinc EDTA, Copper Sulfate, Cobalt Chloride, Nickel Sulfate"
You can see all the products I recommended in there, plus a few extra calcium and potassium sources, since their level of those two nutrients are a bit higher in their recipe, which I like. You can also see why I recommended buying a premixed micronutrient recipe, since the last 10 of their ingredients are just the individual parts of something like M.O.S.T. or S.T.E.M. that I talked about in my previous post.
If you would like help figuring out how to make this recipe yourself in the future for much cheaper, let me know and I can work on it with you, since I do like the look of their recipe, just can't believe the outrageous price tag they have on things that I know are cheap when un-mixed.
-Meeks
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soserthc1
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Always good to see Meeks dropping the knowledge on folks
A true asset to any community
Wash state ? What are Meeks 's future plans if you can share , if not best of luck , I learned a lot from your threads and appreciate the time
Blessings
A true asset to any community
Wash state ? What are Meeks 's future plans if you can share , if not best of luck , I learned a lot from your threads and appreciate the time
Blessings
nMEEKS
Horticulturist
Supporter
- 1,023
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Hey Soser, good to hear from you! Yep, I'm up in Washington state and moving into a new house next month. My plan is to do a medium sized medical grow to pay the bills while I find a company on the recreational production side of things that I would enjoy working with. I haven't had a chance to spend enough time in the new space to design everything too specifically yet, but my plan is to do something in the ballpark of 6-10Kw. It will be a multi-room grow, but each individual room will be small, roughly the same size as the flowering area I've been working with for past grows (2-4 light rooms). I also brought 5 of my strains up from California, so I'll be continuing to work with the Shadow Star, White Master Kush, Alien Grenades, White Fire Alien, and White Skunk, but I'm also looking to add new things that I come across up here in the Pacific North West! Local growers feel free to PM me, always down to have a friendly session or swap genetics.
-Meeks
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drknockbootz
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Yo meeks ive been re using my coco for like 6 runs so far in beds and I would like to continue. Is there anything I should take into consideration with the coco over time. Reason I ask is that I feel like the coco is getting more temper mental. Im using beneficials like SEA GREEN and cap's BIO OG WAR in a way to keep everything in check to avoid any nute lock out. Also I get crazy ph drop in my run off, no matter how high I ph my nutes.
Ive brushed it off since majority of the time my plants are really healthy, so Im taking it with a grain of salt. Also was looking to add gypsum to my beds, Im wondering how long do I have to wait to reapply to the beds. Also do greenhouses re use their coco?
I used your nute recipe throughout one run and switched week 6 back to my usual nutes. Most of the plants were happy but Chemdog 4 didnt like it. It went south real quick, but it could definitely grower error.
I would like to make a stock solution and give the recipe another run,(get tired of weighing out everytime) would you recommend this?
thanks for your help glad to see you back, what took you so damn long haha
Ive brushed it off since majority of the time my plants are really healthy, so Im taking it with a grain of salt. Also was looking to add gypsum to my beds, Im wondering how long do I have to wait to reapply to the beds. Also do greenhouses re use their coco?
I used your nute recipe throughout one run and switched week 6 back to my usual nutes. Most of the plants were happy but Chemdog 4 didnt like it. It went south real quick, but it could definitely grower error.
I would like to make a stock solution and give the recipe another run,(get tired of weighing out everytime) would you recommend this?
thanks for your help glad to see you back, what took you so damn long haha
nMEEKS
Horticulturist
Supporter
- 1,023
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Hey Dr.KB! I don't know of many greenhouse operations reusing their coco in between crops, like from one crop cycle to another replanting, but if they did they would certainly be steam sterilizing it before every reuse, since most growers steam sterilize their substrate before its first use just incase. However, there are plenty of greenhouse growers using the same coco for 7-10 years in cut rose growing operations since the crop cycle is so long for a single plant. The coco levels tend to decrease a bit with time due to compaction, some breakdown, and some spillover during irrigation, so these greenhouse growers will due a semi-transplant every couple years, where they lift the root balls out of the buckets and add some new fluffier coco to the bottom before replanting the root balls into the same bucket. Rose growers really push coco to the limits, but plenty of other crops use coco for up to two year periods, such as gerbera daisy. I am surprised to hear about your lower runoff compared to input pH, since coco is generally know for having the opposite phenomenon, where runoff is higher than input by about 1 full point. To find out the most important pH, your substrate pH, you can take a sample of your media from a growing bed (not directly off the surface) and do a 5:1 dilution with RO by weight. So if you collect a 10g coco sample, you would add 50ml of RO (since 1ml of pure water weighs 1g). Let the solution sit for a couple minutes after giving it a good mix, then measure pH with your meter. That will be the pH your roots are actually experiencing, and the most important to keep in check.
In regards to mixing a stock solution of my dry salt recipe, I would not recommend doing it all in one container, since you will certainly see lockout if mixed at high concentrations. However, you could very easily create 5 individual bottles of concentrate for each ingredient. Simply add 50x the amount of dry salt per gallon to a 1 liter water bottle, mix well, then you can use a dropper to add 20ml of that new concentrate to you reservoir per gallon of water and get the same result as if you had just weighed out fresh salts. Obviously you could easily adjust the concentration and therefore the ml needed per gallon to make things suit you best.
dankemhunter
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So the owner of Hydroponics-Research (Chris) claims that a 2 gallon pot of FWOK can grow plants the same size as a 10 gallon pot of soil and an 8 gallon pot of coco.
jlr42024
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Nmeeks in Washington that's fantastic! Please let me know if there's anything I could do for you, you've been a tremendous help the last few yrs and I appreciate that. Good luck and welcome to our state but beware the officials here have no idea what they're doing with either side of the pot laws lol.
soserthc1
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Awesome my friend , I wish you nothing but success and hope are path meet one day , maybe I'll catch ya at the next cannabis cup as I love Washington state area it's a beautiful place for sure
Best to you Meeks
Be well
Best to you Meeks
Be well
nMEEKS
Horticulturist
Supporter
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Hey DH, it seems as if you have a strong attraction to this company Hydroponic-Research, and I'm not exactly sure why. Their prices for everything are through the roof and they don't seem to be doing anything revolutionary. This FWOK media is nothing new, its just been renamed and marketed to cannabis growers that can afford the multiple times mark-up. The results should be very very similar to using normal rockwool cubes, since the point of the loose-fill rockwool is just to allow you to put it in a pot (or used as house wall insulation) rather than have a cube form. Rockwool generally does require slightly less volume of root space to achieve the same plant growth, but coco is not far behind in that sense, so those numbers of 2:8 or 1:4 root volume ratio achieving the same plant size seems a bit silly and exaggerated. The styrofoam component is just a cheaper filler, since loose-fill rockwool is the more expensive ingredient. I strongly encourage you to take what you read on that companies site with a grain of salt, since they are in it for the profits and very clearly don't have any issue over stating the benefits of their products.
In regards to watering, I would treat your substrate the way rockwool cubes are normally treated. That means you never never never want to let it dry out, because rockwool becomes hydrophobic when it completely dries out, and then you need to soak it in water with a wetting agent before it will rehydrate properly, otherwise your irrigation water will just run through your pot without being absorbed by the media. Rockwool is generally known for being very picky about its pH and hydration level. Easily over watered or under-watered means that most successful rockwool growers use drip irrigation systems to irrigation multiple times a day or even more frequently once their root systems get established on larger plants. Maintaining the 5.5-5.8 input pH is also crucial, since the rockwool has no pH stabilization of its own and is completely inert to begin with. Most rockwool growers also like to soak their cubes in a 5.0 pH solution with a bit of wetting agent in the solution for 24 hours before using them, to get them fully hydrated and get a good starting pH level going in.
Your room temps sound just fine, but I would work on getting your relative humidity down to the 60-70% range during veg and then to the 50-60% range once you get into flowering.
Purple stems are common during minor stress, especially after a transplant. I have generally associated the purple stems/petioles with a slight magnesium deficiency, but have never considered them something to worry about or seen any bad results from plants that have shown this trait.
Thanks so much for the support guys, it's always great hearing from you!
-Meeks
WiseGorilla
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Love this thread. Great pics and great info. Thanks for posting man and all the best.
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