Hey nMEEKS! Totally subbed up for this. I have yet to run any Raskal gear but Im def going to get some soon. I just read through your WhiteFire thread last night. Great read right there! The White x Old school Skunk sounds pretty killer. Good luck with the grow.;)

soserthc1 said:

Meeks , question time my friend , looking for the scientific knowledge on the red stems as i noticed that sometimes they turn red and sometimes they don't , I was thinking that it was a tempature thing as my veg area stays around 55-65 during freezing temp's outside but notice cleaning my (flower ) room yesterday that my second run of my keeper ARC now has red stems and didn't first run , when you get time bro , no rush on answer - all is looking sweet in meeks garden as always ......peace SoSer

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Are you referring to the stem itself or the petiole? I've had both happen on multiple strains. I always interpreted that as a K defeciency. If it happens, i get it in veg and at the very end of a hard flush in late late flowering. Meeks, where you at boss, me and the soser got questions.:cool:

jkbeing said:

Sup nMeeks, I really like the thread. Awesome pics of the seeds and the tomatos. Hope you find one hell of a keeper with those WS! Is it just me or do OCD and growing weed go great together? haha.

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Hey JKB, thanks for joining in! I appreciate the positive vibes, the girls can really feel it this run for sure!

soserthc1 said:

Meeks , question time my friend , looking for the scientific knowledge on the red stems as i noticed that sometimes they turn red and sometimes they don't , I was thinking that it was a tempature thing as my veg area stays around 55-65 during freezing temp's outside but notice cleaning my (flower ) room yesterday that my second run of my keeper ARC now has red stems and didn't first run , when you get time bro , no rush on answer - all is looking sweet in meeks garden as always ......peace SoSer

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Alright Soser, I'll tell you what I know! First of all, I think the two nutrients that might be out of balance are your P and your Mg. But, before you go and add a bunch of P and Mg to your girls, there are a few factors to consider that might be causing these symptoms.

A salt toxicity in general can make it difficult for the plant to uptake water and therefore nutrients. . . which can then mirror a combination of drought and deficiency symtoms (tip burn + deficiencies). It is important to keep an eye on your runoff, and if you notice it getting too high, a media sample of 10g can be taken from one of your pots and mixed with 50ml of RO/DI water then checked with your meter. This is the industry standard for taking EC and pH readings of the media, which is more accurate than just reading input or runoff water.

Once you have ruled out that your problem is not related to a salt toxicity or pH imbalance, the next most likely answer (in most situations) is going to be a nutrient imbalance. Mg tends to fight with things like Ca and K for space in the soil particles (cation exchance sites), so there can be symptoms of a magnesium deficiency when raising the Ca or K levels in your fertilizer. P, on the other hand, has a synergistic relationship with Mg and raising one will increase the plants uptake of the other.

I have definitely seen redish/purple petioles and redish/purple vertical streaking in my stems when my Mg or P was too low or K was too high. And a P deficiency will definitely stimulate anthocyanin (purple/red pigment) production.

After saying all that, I have a feeling your problem is related to temperature. Cold media temperatures can lockout the available P, even if everything is well balanced and in proper amounts. If you think this has been your problem, a foliar application may be the best answer.

Remember that having a cooler night time than day time temp is important. There are a number of problems that can arrise from bringing in colder air during the day than what the plants are experiencing when the exhaust system might be off at night.

I know I didn't really nail down a solution for you, but I hope you can digest all this info and keeping it in mind when you see problems might help you make a better decision as to the cause and possible treatments.

Thanks as usual for asking great questions, the topic of nutrients is one that I wish there was more science relating directly to cannabis available!

GI JO said:

I have a question and I hope it hasn't been asked (and answered) somewhere else. I noticed in your Alien thread and in this thread that once they have popped up, they don't grow really tall and spindly. Do you start them under a 400w right off the bat? This is what mine look like and I'm afraid to transplant them because I don't think they have a very strong root system yet. They lived under a fluro for about 8 days and are now in a room under 600w
View attachment 286011

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Good question GI JO, I don't think I have talked much about that, if at all. The answer to your question is that yes I did start the seedlings under a 400w MH from day 1. . . but that is partially because I am also trying to shorten the time table, and I just don't have the space under my T5 for 8x 1-gal pots right now! Rather than send you on a hunt through my previous grow logs for the photos of my seedlings grown under T5 for the first few weeks, I thought I would upload a picture I particularly like of my White Urkle seedlings from this time last year. They were kept under a T5 for the first 3 weeks and with the proper nutrition, ample light, and appropriate spacing, they turned out just as compact!



There are a few common causes of elongated seedlings and plants in general. First, some people like to sprout their seedlings under a humidity dome. . . . the humidity and specifically the heat is often too high in this environment for compact growth. The seedlings end up elongated and fragile to transplant. The other main causes are nitrogen deficiency and light deficiency (specifically red light). The red light deficiency occurs because of plants that are too tightly spaced, where a canopy layer absords the majority of red light and allows a good deal of far-red light to pass through or reflect around. This ratio of increased far-red light and decreased red light will trigger the plant to grow elongated stems. This is actually the reason you might noticed the internodes on branches lower in the canopy that are receiving less light are much longer and is sensed by a pigment in the plant called phytochrome.

To me, it looks like you are experiencing low light intensity problems, and also may have let those little cups dry out a day or two. Drought stress and low light stress are also causes of stem elongation.

HG23 said:

In post #29 above it says he has them under a 400w MH.

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Thanks for getting back to him faster than I could HG!

GI JO said:

Ya, I saw that. I just didn't see for sure if it was right away. Definitely gonna give that a shot next time, the results say it all.

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If you can afford the power, MH is the way to go, especially after the first week or so!

BudMuncher said:

Hey nMEEKS! Totally subbed up for this. I have yet to run any Raskal gear but Im def going to get some soon. I just read through your WhiteFire thread last night. Great read right there! The White x Old school Skunk sounds pretty killer. Good luck with the grow.;)

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Glad to see you made it over to this thread BudMuncher, you gotta get yourself some OGR gear ASAP! Thanks for the positive vibes!

HumboldtDr said:

Are you referring to the stem itself or the petiole? I've had both happen on multiple strains. I always interpreted that as a K defeciency. If it happens, i get it in veg and at the very end of a hard flush in late late flowering. Meeks, where you at boss, me and the soser got questions.:cool:

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That is interesting HBDr., what makes you think it is a K deficiency? The reason I ask is because it seems like if you added more K, that would be antagonistic with the Mg, and would end up creating the deficiency I have noticed with what I thought was a lack of Mg availability. . .

I usually notice the color creep into my petioles first (when I notice the problem) and then if it goes untended, it will start to streak vertically through my stems, but never gets bad enough to turn the whole stem purple (I have seen pictures of plants that got that bad).

Unfortunately my literature on the subject only discusses P deficiencies being responsible for purpling leaf color and that is about the extent of any mention for causes of purple anything. . . . obviously I don't consider that a very good answer, so I will make a point of asking my schools Soil Science Department fertilizer professor when I get to sit down with him next, hopefully soon.












And just because I might as well reward those of you who are still reading (or just scrolling past) at the end of this very long post, here is a couple photos I took earlier today:






-Meeks

great info Meeks. Thanks bro

Meeks you have now been added to my hero wall! :D

Great freakin answers! I especially love the info on the relationships of p,k,ca,mg - and the info on seedlings, I was wondering why yours where so much more compact! ;)

Quick question if I may, when you are adding media to the RO water to determine pH and ec, how much moisture should be in the media? Should it be bone dry?

Mucho Gracias sir, you are the bomb!

HumboldtDr said:

great info Meeks. Thanks bro

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agreed as always brother thank you but im much to high to comprehend that now... yep pretty blasted think ill get back to that response in the morning ... awesome as always on the grow and info ... temp is related but still gotta comprehend the rest in morning not all of the plants thou ... and dr. its the petiole not the stem .... peace eyes cant take anymore.....night

HumboldtDr said:

great info Meeks. Thanks bro

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Anytime HBDr., stay in touch.

Patanjali said:

Meeks you have now been added to my hero wall! :D

Great freakin answers! I especially love the info on the relationships of p,k,ca,mg - and the info on seedlings, I was wondering why yours where so much more compact! ;)

Quick question if I may, when you are adding media to the RO water to determine pH and ec, how much moisture should be in the media? Should it be bone dry?

Mucho Gracias sir, you are the bomb!

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Thanks a bunch Patanjali! I rushed past the media sampling part of my answer because it was kind of a tangent anyways, but great question, and my information doesn't actually specify, so that is another thing I will ask when I have the opportunity. . . although every time I have run samples in the past it was not a concern, and we just collected media in its current moisture state out of beds and pots in the greenhouse.

The other part I completely left out (so I'm glad you prompted me to go into more detail), is that the reading you get for EC will be lower than you are used to seeing, so there is a different range for deficient/ideal/toxic levels. Rather than retype all of it, I thought I would just upload a copy of the paper I have describing our procedure. The numbers under the other columns are just references for the numbers you would see with other sampling methods, but what is important is the description of what the numbers under the 1 to 5 dilution column mean.





-Meeks

soserthc1 said:

agreed as always brother thank you but im much to high to comprehend that now... yep pretty blasted think ill get back to that response in the morning ... awesome as always on the grow and info ... temp is related but still gotta comprehend the rest in morning not all of the plants thou ... and dr. its the petiole not the stem .... peace eyes cant take anymore.....night

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Hahaha, enjoy your night Soser!

Blown away by the amazing seed, casing & shatter shots. Going to be implementing the plastic on my seedlings immediately. Learning & loving your log. But that's to be expected. Appreciate you Meeks!
Be well!

Goodsen Cranium said:

Blown away by the amazing seed, casing & shatter shots. Going to be implementing the plastic on my seedlings immediately. Learning & loving your log. But that's to be expected. Appreciate you Meeks!
Be well!

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I'm glad you like them, I was trying to get some photos I haven't seen commonly. I have some plant shots for you tonight!



White Skunk less than 3 weeks since seed imbibition:










And it looks like the plants will have no problem handling a transplant to larger containers sometime next week, there were some nice white roots coming out of every pot over the last couple days.















-Meeks:D

Meeks I got a 3 part ? for you, first I read about your ideas on removing fan leaves I just wish I would have seen it sooner. So I removed a large percentage of fan leaves from my ewoks and I'm now starting to see bananas do you think this is a result of that? Part 2 is I also severely over fed these same plants and they are burnt and have obviously been stressed from it, do you think this may have caused the bananas or maybe both factors together as I have to phenos of napalm og in the same room with no bananas that also had fan leaves removed and the same feeding reg? 3 being that I'm just now finding bananas in week 7 do you think I'm in jeopardy of seeding the room and if you saw naners at week seven would you cull all the ewoks our am I ok? I plan on only running 1 ewok next round and that way if it too throws naners I'm only losing 1 plant. Thanks for any insight I know its one of those kinda questions but I had to ask your knowledge vast exceeds anybody else

First off, thanks for the kind words and taking the time to read my previous posts that relate to your question JLR! As you mentioned, you have a combination of factors that could all be responsible for the hermie problem you're having. . . plant symtom diagnosis is fairly simple, but diagnosing the cause is rarely easy. Here is what I can tell you that might help in the future.

Your salt toxicity and heavy leaf removal are most likely related. If, for a second, you can imagine your plant like a really big straw, and your media is like a milkshake with all your energy and nutrients. The more leaves you have on your plant (the more stomata) the more suction you will have on your straw. The more nutrients you have in your media, the thicker that milkshake is going to be, and the harder it will be to use a straw to drink it will be. If you increase the nutrients so much that the plant can no longer suck anything up out of the media, that is when you see visual symptoms of salt toxicity/burn. If you remove so many leaves from the plant that there is very little suction left on the top of the straw, that can also result in salt toxicity symptoms! There might be too little milk in the milkshake to make it drinkable (drought), there might be too much ice cream and it is too think to drink (high salt), or you might have to try to drink it with a little red coffee straw (removed too many leaves). So you see, the symptoms of a salt toxicity can be expressed based on multiple causes.

I imagine the combination of over feeding and heavy leaf pruning were the triggers for your hermie problem. . . . but based on the fact that you say you have other plants in the garden that have not had this problem, (but I assume have had all the same treatment) I am tempted to say that the genetics of that strain may also be somewhat unstable. It certainly wouldn't be an isolated incident if that is that case.

You shouldn't find any fully mature seeds in your buds if it is already week 7, but once pollination has occurred, your plants will unfortunately be putting a huge amount of energy into the production/growth of those seeds that will be diverted away from the bud and trichome growth you are hoping for. . . culling them is not necessary at this point IMO, but growing that strain again next grow is a risk I wouldn't take.

I hope this helps answer your questions. Have a great rest of your weekend!

-Meeks

P.S. I really like your signature photo

Milkshake......great way to put things in a simpler form!;) I don't know where you find all the time to reply in such a timely and in depth manner, it's not as tho you don't have a bit going on. Please know that it is GREATLY appreciated, many thanks!!

Meeks you really should be a teacher for the cannibas world! The way you're able to simplify analogies and comparisons to a level that is so easy to comprehend is a true gift! Thank you for your insight and I agree and I'm looking at these naners they are not mature in any way and kinda falling off so I'm hoping for the best and the only reason I would chance running just 1 plant again is these genetics are usually very stable and valuable and only running 1 if it hermied again I can cull it right away. Being it was stress induced most likely I'd hate to trash a plant that whent bad because of me. The other plants in the room were subjected to the same feeding reg and de leafing but retained more leaves because of size and placement, I try not to remove leaves that aren't covering flowers and with the others this was the case. Thanks again

GI JO said:

Milkshake......great way to put things in a simpler form!;) I don't know where you find all the time to reply in such a timely and in depth manner, it's not as tho you don't have a bit going on. Please know that it is GREATLY appreciated, many thanks!!

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Thanks GI JO, I sneak online before class and at lunch breaks to like everyones comments, but it is usually the evenings and weekends when I find the time to reply. The nice thing about going to school for growing plants is that the work load is mostly growing (the book learning comes easily for me). . . so that leaves me with some free time at the end of the day when the sun goes down. I do have to say though, this log would be incredibly boring and have none of the valuable information that it contains if there weren't great readers who participate with great comments and questions that push me to share more!

jlr42024 said:

Meeks you really should be a teacher for the cannibas world! The way you're able to simplify analogies and comparisons to a level that is so easy to comprehend is a true gift! Thank you for your insight and I agree and I'm looking at these naners they are not mature in any way and kinda falling off so I'm hoping for the best and the only reason I would chance running just 1 plant again is these genetics are usually very stable and valuable and only running 1 if it hermied again I can cull it right away. Being it was stress induced most likely I'd hate to trash a plant that whent bad because of me. The other plants in the room were subjected to the same feeding reg and de leafing but retained more leaves because of size and placement, I try not to remove leaves that aren't covering flowers and with the others this was the case. Thanks again

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I've been told that before JLR, always nice to hear! I am actually at a point in my schooling were I have to make a decision as to the direction I go. . . more school and possibly teaching or get to work while the green rush is booming?! Not that those options have to be mutually exclusive, but it is a choice I will have to make somewhat soon. I crave new knowledge by the end of every summer break, so I don't know if I could ever call it quits with school/learning. . . but teaching the same basic stuff over and over again to new students doesn't really get my heart rate pumping when I think about it the way growing plants for a living does!

I think it takes at least 4 weeks, usually more, from pollination to fully mature seeds being found in your buds. . . so I don't think you will find any full size brown seeds, but you may have a bunch of little white immature seeds, it all depends on what stage your buds were at when they got dusted. Good luck finishing out this grow and I hope they don't cause any problems for you next round, as you said, these are some expensive genetics to toss. Enjoy the rest of your Sunday.

-Meeks

Meeks the naners I'm finding look exactly like lil bananas closed on all sides and kind of hard. from what I've seen they kind of peal open from the bottoms when they release pollen is that true and if so being its day 43 of 56 they shouldn't get dusted to bad before harvest since the male flower is still maturing or is it already to late once naners are present no matter there maturity? Thanks again and sorry for hijacking your thread but there isn't anybody or anywhere else I'd rather ask maybe you should start a Q & A thread I bet it would have the most followers on the farm!

GI JO said:

Milkshake......great way to put things in a simpler form!;) I don't know where you find all the time to reply in such a timely and in depth manner, it's not as tho you don't have a bit going on. Please know that it is GREATLY appreciated, many thanks!!

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very well said , i def agree , almost milkshake analogy meeks .....

jlr42024 said:

Meeks the naners I'm finding look exactly like lil bananas closed on all sides and kind of hard. from what I've seen they kind of peal open from the bottoms when they release pollen is that true and if so being its day 43 of 56 they shouldn't get dusted to bad before harvest since the male flower is still maturing or is it already to late once naners are present no matter there maturity? Thanks again and sorry for hijacking your thread but there isn't anybody or anywhere else I'd rather ask maybe you should start a Q & A thread I bet it would have the most followers on the farm!

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Meeks explained this above bro , check a few post ahead and i cant speak for meeks but i would gather with all he has going on in his life a Q& A thread would be way to time consuming but he does find the time to answer any question on his thread and i'm pretty sure - he wants to keep it that ... after he graduates will prod him on the Q&A thread...... again just letting you know your answer is above and not speaking for meeks , just a little dialect .... best of luck soser

jlr42024 said:

Meeks the naners I'm finding look exactly like lil bananas closed on all sides and kind of hard. from what I've seen they kind of peal open from the bottoms when they release pollen is that true and if so being its day 43 of 56 they shouldn't get dusted to bad before harvest since the male flower is still maturing or is it already to late once naners are present no matter there maturity? Thanks again and sorry for hijacking your thread but there isn't anybody or anywhere else I'd rather ask maybe you should start a Q & A thread I bet it would have the most followers on the farm!

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soserthc1 said:

Meeks explained this above bro , check a few post ahead and i cant speak for meeks but i would gather with all he has going on in his life a Q& A thread would be way to time consuming but he does find the time to answer any question on his thread and i'm pretty sure - he wants to keep it that ... after he graduates will prod him on the Q&A thread...... again just letting you know your answer is above and not speaking for meeks , just a little dialect .... best of luck soser

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Thanks for helping out Soser, the answer to his question is indeed already discussed above.




Some game day entertainment for everyone. . . . this is the SuperBowl I was just smoking on:)






-Meeks

^awesome hahaha