Meeks' 2013 Dapper Grow Log

Boogi3Man · Feb 16, 2013

Are these getting thedouble scrog?

nMEEKS · Feb 16, 2013

Boogi3Man said:
Are these getting thedouble scrog?

Great question BoogieMan. . . that is something I am debating on myself!

I would ideally like to try and run just a single screen this grow, and the current size of the plants should allow for that! But because of the low humidity issues, I would like to acclimate the plants back to ~75%RH before making the flip, so that I can drop it to 65 at week 2 and steer them towards flowering even more. But with an RH of ~50% right now, if I went to 65% at week two, that would be an increase, and increasing the RH will steer the plants towards vegetative growth. . .

When I get the humidity resolved will be the deciding factor in the 1 vs 2 screen debate.

Thanks for checking out the log (and clearly past logs also)!

-Meeks

Medusa · Feb 16, 2013

Meeks all i can say incredible log your info is superb !!! I will have to read several time to fully understand a Million thanks for sharing all your precious time

Medusa · Feb 16, 2013

Wondering if you have grow MJ upside down ? Have wanted to do this as my tomatoes grown upside down always produce more . Only problem I see is how to get the proper light to them?

soserthc1 · Feb 16, 2013

kendog000 said:
Man Meeksy, do ya know how long it took for me to read all the recent info on the last couple pages hahaha. You throw so much information out in this thread it lows my mind. Just the info on the purple stems is insane. You desire to share whats in that brain of yours makes you one of a kind my friend. Folks help people out all the time, but the info your posting is basically takin people to school!!!
Thanks fr all ya do brother, oh yeah, those Raskal hunnnies look kill for such a young age

Peace and be well
Ken

Could not of said it better....

nMEEKS · Feb 17, 2013

Medusa said:
Meeks all i can say incredible log your info is superb !!! I will have to read several time to fully understand a Million thanks for sharing all your precious time

Thanks a ton for checking it all out and spending the time to understand everything Medusa! I'm glad you were able to find the thread since I know you were asking about it.

Medusa said:
Wondering if you have grow MJ upside down ? Have wanted to do this as my tomatoes grown upside down always produce more . Only problem I see is how to get the proper light to them?

I have never done an upside-down cannabis grow. . . or tomato grow for that matter. What I can tell you is that the plant senses which way to grow its above ground structures based on phototropism (grows away from the shade) and the roots grow based on gravitropism (grow downwards). Other than those simple tropisms, my orientation based physiology is very limited. I will keep your question in mind and try to get an answer from a professor when I have the opportunity since I am curious also!

soserthc1 said:
Could not of said it better....

Ken has a way with words for sure! Thanks for the support from both of you!

Medusa · Feb 18, 2013

I HAVE A GOOD FRIEND THAT'S A FARMER GROWS ALL VEG'S AND FLOWERS COMMERCIALLY , AFTER ALOT OF RAZZING SHE FINALLY PLANTED AN UPSIDE DOWN IN THE GREENHOUSES ! SHE COULD HARDLY CHOKE OUT THAT IT GREW THE BEST AND MOST, AND FIRST TOMATOES.

nMEEKS · Feb 18, 2013

Medusa said:
I HAVE A GOOD FRIEND THAT'S A FARMER GROWS ALL VEG'S AND FLOWERS COMMERCIALLY , AFTER ALOT OF RAZZING SHE FINALLY PLANTED AN UPSIDE DOWN IN THE GREENHOUSES ! SHE COULD HARDLY CHOKE OUT THAT IT GREW THE BEST AND MOST, AND FIRST TOMATOES.

Nice, you should give it a shot and see how it goes! I have only see a couple grow logs start on that topic, and I've never seen one finish before.

I have a Day 1 of Flowering Update for everyone!

Good evening Farmers, I hope everything is going well in your gardens! I started this grow log 5 weeks ago when I pulled seeds out of cold storage and germinated 8 White Skunks from OGRaskal! I was shooting for a 5 week veg time, but because of unexpected low humidity I was afraid the plants were not going to make my schedule. . . Yesterday I went in to check on the girls and 4 of 8 had really kicked off a growth spurt! 4 plants are clearly still unhappy with the 50% RH, but 4 of them are starting to tolerate it and grow rapidly again! Rather than wait for the other 4 to adjust (if they ever will), I decided to make the flip to flowering last night! I sorted the two tables into those that are happy and those that aren't. . . you should be able to see the size difference visibly even though they were all equal less than a week ago! My thought process is that the larger plants may need to be screened at a different level, or the light may need to be raised higher sooner, so I'm not worried about both trays looking balanced right now.

Now the show is really started!

-Meeks:D

pura · Feb 19, 2013

Looking good bro! Can't wait to see what the ladies can do.

ftwendy · Feb 19, 2013

So clean.

Stupid question: how do you make the drip line connection from your pvc? I always end up using the black vinyl stuff from mister landscaper (punch hole, while I assume you drill??), but would prefer the manageability of the hard pipes like your setup. Tight.

RIVAL79 · Feb 19, 2013

I think them ladies will be fine. They r gonna produce some fire for sure. Best of luck wit everything, Meeks.

jlr42024 · Feb 20, 2013

Meeks I was wondering what you thought about the theory of extending the dark hours before harvest? I've heard something about the resin or crystal content benefiting from a long dark period before harvest is there any science behind this that you know of. Thanks Meeks..!

bigcheese510 · Feb 20, 2013

jlr42024 said:
Meeks I was wondering what you thought about the theory of extending the dark hours before harvest? I've heard something about the resin or crystal content benefiting from a long dark period before harvest is there any science behind this that you know of. Thanks Meeks..!

i know youre asking meeks but ive done the dark period at the end of flower to increase resin and i didnt see a difference at all.

soserthc1 · Feb 20, 2013

jlr42024 said:
Meeks I was wondering what you thought about the theory of extending the dark hours before harvest? I've heard something about the resin or crystal content benefiting from a long dark period before harvest is there any science behind this that you know of. Thanks Meeks..!

again not speaking for meeks either but in his other thread I asked this and he has a detailed explanation and its no , he does not do it or see a benefit from it but obviously its way more detailed than that....lol

WalterWhiteFire · Feb 20, 2013

Meeks, you cannacologist! Your threads are just packed full info. I love how you are the local horti prof on this board, and appreciate you take the time to answer everyones question. Amazing brother, keep it up!

Patanjali · Feb 20, 2013

I know I'm in the minority here, but I don't chop my plants without a 24-48 dark period. I've tested this many times, and to me, there is a difference in trichs.

nMEEKS · Feb 20, 2013

I am on my way out the door for class. . . but I have some new information about the dark periods that I picked up last week that I have been looking for an excuse to share. . . Thanks for prompting the discussion JLR, I will come back and explain what I recently learned later today!

nMEEKS · Feb 20, 2013

pura said:
Looking good bro! Can't wait to see what the ladies can do.

Thanks Pura, they look much happier today than they did when I was taking those photos. I am super excited to see what these genetics hold!

ftwendy said:
So clean.

Stupid question: how do you make the drip line connection from your pvc? I always end up using the black vinyl stuff from mister landscaper (punch hole, while I assume you drill??), but would prefer the manageability of the hard pipes like your setup. Tight.

Just did a massive deep clean between crops! I used 1/4" Top Hat Grommets from Botanicare or other companies for $0.70-1.00 each. . . for this reason, the cost of producing PVC manifolds on a large commercial scale may get too high, but on a small home grower scale they are affordable and work perfectly! The holes are drilled into the pvc (can be 1/2" or 3/4" pvc) and then you push the grommets in and the drip line slides right in and makes a snug fit so there are no leaks. I recommend designing your pvc manifold to be as short a run of pipe as possible, to reduce the size pump needed. . . I made a mistake making my manifolds as large as they are.

RIVAL79 said:
I think them ladies will be fine. They r gonna produce some fire for sure. Best of luck wit everything, Meeks.

Thanks for the positive vibes Rival, I think you're right, they are already perking back up now that I tweaked the irrigation and did a small flush! I will post some pictures at the bottom to show the difference in just 2 days.

jlr42024 said:
Meeks I was wondering what you thought about the theory of extending the dark hours before harvest? I've heard something about the resin or crystal content benefiting from a long dark period before harvest is there any science behind this that you know of. Thanks Meeks..!

The reason people seem to notice larger or "better" trichomes after an extended night period is simple. When the plant is experiencing a night period, the stomata (plant pores) are closed. This means that the main escape for water out of the plant is blocked and the turgor pressure inside the plant will begin to build as the roots continue to intake water. This increase in turgor pressure is what allows for cell expansion (i.e. growth) and is most likely what is producing the larger trichome size (if there is one) after an extended build up of water pressure in the plant from a longer night than usual.

This explains why plants may look frostier or have larger trichomes after 24 or 48 hours of dark but in no way means that plant resin content will be increased. . . just water content and swelling/size because of that.

bigcheese510 said:
i know youre asking meeks but ive done the dark period at the end of flower to increase resin and i didnt see a difference at all.

I've done the same and feel the same way! Thanks for offering your experience Big C!

soserthc1 said:
again not speaking for meeks either but in his other thread I asked this and he has a detailed explanation and its no , he does not do it or see a benefit from it but obviously its way more detailed than that....lol

Thanks for reminding me that I had already talked about this Soser! In my other post, just to do a quick summary, I went over the balance of photosynthesis versus respiration. During the day in ideal environment conditions, your rate of photosynthesis is greater than your rate of respiration, which means you are building carbohydrate/sugar reserves even as you burn some for respiration. Then at night, you have respiration but no photosynthesis without light, which means you are burning carbohydrate/sugar reserves and not putting any back with photosynthesis.

If you run an extended night period, you will be depleting more carbohydrate/sugar reserves than a normal night and I don't know any cannabis grower that would want to have less sugar in their final product if they were given the choice.

WalterWhiteFire said:
Meeks, you cannacologist! Your threads are just packed full info. I love how you are the local horti prof on this board, and appreciate you take the time to answer everyones question. Amazing brother, keep it up!

Haha, I like that term, I wish there was a degree (piece of fancy paper) I could get on that subject! Thanks for the kind words and obviously your readership!

Patanjali said:
I know I'm in the minority here, but I don't chop my plants without a 24-48 dark period. I've tested this many times, and to me, there is a difference in trichs.

What ever works to give you the results you want, I say do it! Check out my answer to JLR if you want my explanation of why you might see the difference in the trichomes, and check my answer to SoSer for why I personally don't practice this technique.

Ok I wanted to mention a bunch of random photoperiod controlling techniques I learned about that greenhouse growers do for Short Day flowering crops similar to cannabis, keep in mind that these are done for much lower value crops and remain profitable.

The first technique is called 'Night Interruption Lighting' and for anyone looking to save money on their power bill, this is where you should start taking notes! Greenhouse growers can't afford to run a 1000w bulb for every 4x4 foot print or even 8x8 foot print in the greenhouse. . . but there are plenty of crops that only grow vegetatively (like cannabis) with long days and short nights. A period of vegetative growth is almost always required for potted plant production, even when flowers are the product being sold in the end, so how do greenhouse growers afford to artificially create long days? The answer is simple. If you interrupt the dark night with a few hours of light, the plants will not experience a long enough uninterrupted dark period and they will not start to flower. This may almost sound too obvious, being that we all know not to go into the grow during lights off with a flashlight because it will mess them up during flowering. But greenhouse growers purposely turn on just a few 1000w HPS bulbs per greenhouse (enough to shine 15 foot candles of light on the plants) for 4 hours in the middle of the night during the winter, so even when the day length is only 9 or 10 hours the plants grow vegetatively!

The next thing I recently learned about is that although many plants development (floral or vegetative) is controlled by the photoperiod or light schedule, temperature also plays a key role in that trigger. To use an example (cannabis doesn't have enough published research to get this specific, but you can guess it is similar) I will talk about Poinsettias. If the night time temperature in the air is 60 degrees, then poinsettias will start to flower when the days lengths are 11 hours and 50 minutes or shorter. If the night time temperature is 65 degrees, the plants will only flower when the day length is less than 11 hours. The trend continues, with 70 degree nights the plants will only flower with 10.5 hours or less of light and if for some crazy heat wave reason your night time temps were 80 degrees, the plants would only flower if they received 8.5 hours or less of day light! . . . . . If you followed all that, you may be thinking that you could run more than 12 hours of light if your night temperatures were cold enough, but that starts to slow your growth if it is too cold so it's not a good idea. The important take away from this is that when controlling night time temperatures is an issue, you may consider running an 11/13 or even 10/14 light schedule to initiate flowering.

And lastly, the technique used by commercial flower forcers who grow plants that (like cannabis) require a short day light cycle with an uninterrupted night period is called 'Black Clothing'. To ensure completely uniform initiation without a hitch, forcers will cover the crop/greenhouse bench with a light proof black cloth for 15 hours from 5pm to 8am throughout the remainder of the crops life cycle. Although most short day plants (like cannabis) only need roughly 12 hours of uninterrupted darkness to flower, the lose of growth from a few extra hours of black cloth is worth the uniformity and guarantee of flower initiation and development. This is something to consider for anyone looking to try running a 9/15 light cycle to compare for measurable yield differences, since the power savings could be enormous!

Flowering Day 3 Update:

The tray with plants I was worried about it looking much better already! I noticed that the drip emitters on those 4 plants were not running as well as the other 4, and I was not getting good runoff because of it. I think a slight salt build up had occurred in those 4 pots, so I gave them a little flush and a good watering after replacing the emitters and they perked right up! I also took some photos of the roots coming out of the bottom of the pots and also the top of the pots!?! I think they are happy right now! I have yet to give them anything but the recipe I posted, no foliar or anything. . . let's see how long I can stick to that!